Abortion and the Death Penalty

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

What difference does it make if you call it a fetus, embryo or child? Abortion amounts to the same thing which is stopping the process of an unborn life. What I cannot fathom is why this personal issue is always brought up in public debate as something that affects the public at large when it doesn't. What does affect the public at large are the uncared for or disposed children.

 

[Sciencelovah]

Inzominia:Uhm, I disagree. Legalizing it (abortion) means you (the system) are give up.
It should never be legalized. People should be discourage to do it, and doctor
who commit it (without acceptable excuse) should at least lose their license.
This way the practice could be minimized. If it is legalized, people are going to
be so easy to do abortion.

Whereas the death penalty is a state issue an abortion is an intimate individual one. If you disagree with it you have the right not to engage in it, but why would you want to hinder the rights of another over their own body? What difference could it possibly make to you as an individual if your neighbor has an abortion or not? Do you also take responsibility for the raising of unwanted children? I think people who believe abortion wrong should take in orphans, adopt the unwanted and raise them if they believe it such an evil but they rarely do. Why is that?

By your logic, a neighbor who molested his daughter should also be left alone,
because she is his own daughter and not the neighbor's.

 

[Sciencelovah]

What difference does it make if you call it a fetus, embryo or child? Abortion amounts to the same thing which is stopping the process of an unborn life. What I cannot fathom is why this personal issue is always brought up in public debate as something that affects the public at large when it doesn't. What does affect the public at large are the uncared for or disposed children.

To avoid the uncared and disposed children, people should think 1000 times
before they make the child. They should prepare in advance, not by doing
abortion when the child is 'accidentally' formed. There is nothing incidental
by inserting something into something. I despise those who do abortion
because it shows that they are careless, lack of control, running away from
responsibility, violate the new life's right to live, etc.

 

[pjdude1219]

By your logic, a neighbor who molested his daughter should also be left alone,
because she is his own daughter and not the neighbor's.

big difference between a living person and a non viable fetus that sucks nutrients from its mother like a parasite.

 

[Sciencelovah]

big difference between a living person and a non viable fetus that sucks nutrients from its mother like a parasite.

Funny that you post here. I assume it is possible because you take nutrients
from your mother for 9 months and then using your father's money so that you
can go to school and learn how to read and write

Yeah, what a parasite:

Sorry, wrong pic. Correct pic. (WARNING.. GRAPHIC IMAGE WITH THAT LINK)

 

[Bells]

By your logic, a neighbor who molested his daughter should also be left alone,
because she is his own daughter and not the neighbor's.

Different issue. A living child is vastly different to a 4 week old embryo that is not yet alive, but a mere mass of cells. And yes, 4 week old embryo's are parasites on the woman's body.. leeching everything from it and possibly causing the woman harm (during the pregnancy or even later on in her life.. (eg. if she doesn't consume enough calcium, the foetus will leech all it needs from the mother, putting her at risk of contracting osteoporosis later on in life) or even death. That doesn't stop until the child is born.

To avoid the uncared and disposed children, people should think 1000 times
before they make the child. They should prepare in advance, not by doing
abortion when the child is 'accidentally' formed.

And what of women who are at personal risk during the pregnancy? What of pregnancies where the 'child' is not viable or severely deformed or ill?

There is nothing incidental
by inserting something into something.

Course there is. Sometimes the condom breaks or the woman falls within that 2% margin of failure with the pill.

I despise those who do abortion
because it shows that they are careless, lack of control, running away from
responsibility, violate the new life's right to live, etc.

So you'd rather the woman be forced to have the child and then later abandon it, or worse, abuse it and/or kill it after it has been born?

The issue is simple. If you are against abortion, don't have one. But do not deny others the right to choose for themselves. You may choose to have a child and it's all well and good for you. So why do you wish to deny other women the right to choose for themselves and their bodies?

 

[Enmos]

Funny that you post here. I assume it is possible because you take nutrients
from your mother for 9 months and then using your father's money so that you
can go to school and learn how to read and write

Yeah, what a parasite:

Sorry, wrong pic. Correct pic. (WARNING.. GRAPHIC IMAGE WITH THAT LINK)

*Edit*

Deleted off topic and highly disturbing images

Mod persona..

Come on Enmos.. lets keep this to topic. While this is an emotive issue, lets try to stick to the facts.

 

[Sciencelovah]

Different issue. A living child is vastly different to a 4 week old embryo that is not yet alive, but a mere mass of cells. And yes, 4 week old embryo's are parasites on the woman's body.. leeching everything from it and possibly causing the woman harm (during the pregnancy or even later on in her life.. (eg. if she doesn't consume enough calcium, the foetus will leech all it needs from the mother, putting her at risk of contracting osteoporosis later on in life) or even death. That doesn't stop until the child is born.

So because the embryo can't afford his own nutrient and has no other option
but by being a parasite to his own mother, it is justifiable to abort it?

And what of women who are at personal risk during the pregnancy? What of pregnancies where the 'child' is not viable or severely deformed or ill?


Course there is. Sometimes the condom breaks or the woman falls within that 2% margin of failure with the pill.

I did say that:

I am against abortion, except under some very very extreme circumstances (e.g. death risk of mother).

I don't mind death penalty. I don't mind the guy who molested his daughter for years to be executed. He should.

http://sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1933646&postcount=51

Anywhere, according to statistics in the USA:

That is a survey of thousands abortion.

So you'd rather the woman be forced to have the child and then later abandon it, or worse, abuse it and/or kill it after it has been born?

The issue is simple. If you are against abortion, don't have one. But do not deny others the right to choose for themselves. You may choose to have a child and it's all well and good for you. So why do you wish to deny other women the right to choose for themselves and their bodies?

This thread ask in which position do you stand with this issue. I have said
where I stand, not that it will prevent any women out there to do any abortion.

 

[Bells]

So because the embryo can't afford his own nutrient and has no other option
but by being a parasite to his own mother, it is justifiable to abort it?

If the mother wishes to, yes. It really is no one's business but her own to be honest.

I did say that:

So you did. Does this mean you value the life of the mother more than the 'child's' if the mother is in danger? How did you come up with that but then argue that abortion in all other instances is wrong because the child has a right to live? How can you accept one but not the other? What if the pregnancy poses a mental strain on the mother, resulting in her possibly killing herself as a result? Do you have limits on accepting abortion?

This is what I don't understand with this debate. You are either for the right of women to choose regardless or you are not. How can anyone say abortion is wrong because they deem it as being akin to murder (ending a budding life, so to speak) but then in the same breath attempt to give reasons where it can be somehow justified?

That is a survey of thousands abortion.

And?

This thread ask in which position do you stand with this issue. I have said
where I stand, not that it will prevent any women out there to do any abortion.

It should not be up to you or anyone else to decide for others.

 

[Enmos]

*Edit*

Deleted off topic and highly disturbing images

Mod persona..

Come on Enmos.. lets keep this to topic. While this is an emotive issue, lets try to stick to the facts.

Ok, fair enough.
My point was that it is unbelievable hypocritical to call out abortion if you are going to condone the carnage in other areas.
Personally, I found the acts performed in the images I linked to much more disgusting and immoral than aborting a fetus that doesn't know it anyway.

 

[Sciencelovah]

If the mother wishes to, yes. It really is no one's business but her own to be honest.

How selfish.

So you did. Does this mean you value the life of the mother more than the 'child's' if the mother is in danger? How did you come up with that but then argue that abortion in all other instances is wrong because the child has a right to live? How can you accept one but not the other? What if the pregnancy poses a mental strain on the mother, resulting in her possibly killing herself as a result? Do you have limits on accepting abortion?

This is what I don't understand with this debate. You are either for the right of women to choose regardless or you are not. How can anyone say abortion is wrong because they deem it as being akin to murder (ending a budding life, so to speak) but then in the same breath attempt to give reasons where it can be somehow justified?

In that case, Bells, either one will die. I am not the one who should play God,
but I assume most doctor will think the same, unless the mother is willing to
sacrifice herself.

And?

Nevermind. Certainly thousands of abortion because of 'personal choice' isn't
an issue for you. If you are fine with that, I have no further comment.

It should not be up to you or anyone else to decide for others.

I certainly know I have no power over the abortion decision of any other women.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Inzomnia: By your logic, a neighbor who molested his daughter should also be left alone,
because she is his own daughter and not the neighbor's.

No not by my logic by yours evidently. By my logic these two situations are different since an abortion is something a woman has done to HER body by CHOICE.

Inzomnia: To avoid the uncared and disposed children, people should think 1000 times
before they make the child. They should prepare in advance, not by doing
abortion when the child is 'accidentally' formed. There is nothing incidental
by inserting something into something. I despise those who do abortion
because it shows that they are careless, lack of control, running away from
responsibility, violate the new life's right to live, etc.

I agree but that is the ideal isn't it and we don't live in an ideal world where everyone is responsible or where everyone is careful etc etc etc.
That being said I don't see why someone should ruin the rest of their life over a night of indiscretion. Your poll doesn't show that many women who choose to end an abortion because of bad timing also go on to have children when the timing is right. But you still haven't answered my question. Are you willing to take in children who are unwanted and raise them into adulthood? Are you planning on giving an orphan a loving home? Because that's where unwanted children end up...abandoned. Now you seem so concerned about the life of the unborn what about when they are born? Do you care about these children after the fact, because you can force a woman to have a baby unwillingly but you can't force her to raise it. I think those against abortion, those who would take the right away from others should put their money where their mouth is. Since these women are 'selfish' as you put it and 'despicable' then why would you want them to be mothers? Since you are so unselfish I would think you would take in the unwanted wouldn't you? Being concerned and compassionate and all.

Bells: Wouldn't it be interesting to know how many of these kids who have all of these ideals found out their own mother at one point had an abortion. 'Oh no not MY mother!!!'

 

[Sciencelovah]

Inzomnia: By your logic, a neighbor who molested his daughter should also be left alone,
because she is his own daughter and not the neighbor's.

No not by my logic by yours evidently. By my logic these two situations are different since an abortion is something a woman has done to HER body by CHOICE.

Inzomnia: To avoid the uncared and disposed children, people should think 1000 times
before they make the child. They should prepare in advance, not by doing
abortion when the child is 'accidentally' formed. There is nothing incidental
by inserting something into something. I despise those who do abortion
because it shows that they are careless, lack of control, running away from
responsibility, violate the new life's right to live, etc.

I agree but that is the ideal isn't it and we don't live in an ideal world where everyone is responsible or where everyone is careful etc etc etc.
That being said I don't see why someone should ruin the rest of their life over a night of indiscretion. Your poll doesn't show that many women who choose to end an abortion because of bad timing go on to have children when the timing is right. But you still haven't answered my question. Are you willing to take in children who are unwanted and raise them into adulthood? Are you planning on giving an orphan a loving home? Because that's where unwanted children end up...abandoned. Now you seem so concerned about the life of the unborn what about when they are born? Do you care about these children after the fact, because you can force a woman to have a baby unwillingly but you can't force her to raise it. I think those against abortion, those who would take the right away from others should put their money where their mouth is. Since these women are 'selfish' as you put it and 'despicable' then why would you want them to be mothers? Since you are so unselfish I would think you would take in the unwanted wouldn't you? Being concerned and compassionate and all.

For your questions regarding my own life, its easy. I don't want to sounds proud
but at this moment I have adopt a baby boy of the neighbor whom his father
die of drugs overdose (the mother still live somewhere in Batams Island). That
baby now is in 2nd grade and live with my own parent in Indonesia. I have been
responsible for all his expenses since he was 4 (kindergarten).

 

[Sciencelovah]

I'll upload the pic later (if you wish), I gtg now

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Well good for you, not many people do that in which case that child would have either ended up in institution or with a parent all messed up on drugs. It still doesn't change the fact that many women, most of whom are not on drugs don't want to have a baby, sometimes they are married and have too many children and simply cannot afford it. Abortion is reasonable and in many cases even the responsible thing to do.

 

[visceral_instinct]

Ok, fair enough.
My point was that it is unbelievable hypocritical to call out abortion if you are going to condone the carnage in other areas.
Personally, I found the acts performed in the images I linked to much more disgusting and immoral than aborting a fetus that doesn't know it anyway.

Enmos, what was in that post before it got deleted?

Pm me if ya want...it's killing me to know now.

 

[visceral_instinct]

To avoid the uncared and disposed children, people should think 1000 times
before they make the child. They should prepare in advance, not by doing
abortion when the child is 'accidentally' formed. There is nothing incidental
by inserting something into something. I despise those who do abortion
because it shows that they are careless, lack of control, running away from
responsibility, violate the new life's right to live, etc.

You don't get it, needing an abortion does not automatically make you irresponsible. Condoms can rupture. Birth control can fail.

 

[Enmos]

Enmos, what was in that post before it got deleted?

Pm me if ya want...it's killing me to know now.

Baby seal being killed in a gruesome manner (held by rear end and slammed into the ground, probably several times before it's dead.. or not.), a skinned baby seal, and a couple of dead bloody baby seals.

 

[visceral_instinct]

Ah...no, I don't think I wanna see those.

 

[Enmos]

Ah...no, I don't think I wanna see those.

Worse than the fetus corpse ?