A plea
- Thread starter GeoffP
- Start date
mind explaing how "social" has anything to do with "IQ" let alone "inchworm" 
Joining up with Sam, are you?
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
As always, fascinating reading.
As always everyone thinks they are right.
As always an attitude on the part of onwer, admin and moderators that they are perfectly entitled to, but which is flawed from a social perspective. To wit, in those forums in which I am a moderator I see it as my function to serve the members. Therefore pointing out to them that it is not their site, that it is not a public place, that they can have ****-all say in it, is counterproductive, rude and boorish. However, that is implicitly and explicitly what happens here.
It seems, from my perspective, that this is what sniffy was upset about. Perhaps she should have noticed this state of affairs earlier, perhaps not. When she did raise it, what was the response of the owner/admin/moderators? In essence they said this is not your site, this is not a public place, and you can have ****-all say in it.
Interesting approach, as always.
As always everyone thinks they are right.
As always an attitude on the part of onwer, admin and moderators that they are perfectly entitled to, but which is flawed from a social perspective. To wit, in those forums in which I am a moderator I see it as my function to serve the members. Therefore pointing out to them that it is not their site, that it is not a public place, that they can have ****-all say in it, is counterproductive, rude and boorish. However, that is implicitly and explicitly what happens here.
It seems, from my perspective, that this is what sniffy was upset about. Perhaps she should have noticed this state of affairs earlier, perhaps not. When she did raise it, what was the response of the owner/admin/moderators? In essence they said this is not your site, this is not a public place, and you can have ****-all say in it.
Interesting approach, as always.
This is..better than a soap opera. Good job! I enjoyed the show.:m:
I've always seen two interesting opportunities for this site:
1) The private investigator with read access to everything. Members (both mods and non-mods) could hire the PI on a case by case basis to investigate "misdeeds" from an objective 3rd party perspective. If real misdeeds are found then corrective action could be taken. If a trend of false misdeed accusations are found then that itself will automatically become a misdeed for the accuser. The gain is that this approach levels the playing field for everyone and will drastically marginalize empty can rattling.
2) The psychiatrist with read access to everything. Members whom encounter emotional difficulty dealing with the forum can hire some "virtual couch time" with an online therappist. The gain is that this approach allows people to destress, recharge, and even get training on how to interact with others for better results.
Another benefit of these approaches is that they do not require the site owner to fund them. They are "pay as needed" services available to any member.
1) The private investigator with read access to everything. Members (both mods and non-mods) could hire the PI on a case by case basis to investigate "misdeeds" from an objective 3rd party perspective. If real misdeeds are found then corrective action could be taken. If a trend of false misdeed accusations are found then that itself will automatically become a misdeed for the accuser. The gain is that this approach levels the playing field for everyone and will drastically marginalize empty can rattling.
2) The psychiatrist with read access to everything. Members whom encounter emotional difficulty dealing with the forum can hire some "virtual couch time" with an online therappist. The gain is that this approach allows people to destress, recharge, and even get training on how to interact with others for better results.
Another benefit of these approaches is that they do not require the site owner to fund them. They are "pay as needed" services available to any member.
Oh great. Another person adds his two cents.
Ophiolite:
You obviously came into this late, and didn't notice that this all started after the administrators/moderators explicitly gave the membership a say in the appointment of moderators, and indeed appointed one from the general membership.
Maybe you ought to check your facts in future before jumping on somebody else's band wagon. Which, by the way, was exactly what sniffy did in complaining about a process in which she had chosen to play no part.
Ophiolite:
You obviously came into this late, and didn't notice that this all started after the administrators/moderators explicitly gave the membership a say in the appointment of moderators, and indeed appointed one from the general membership.
Maybe you ought to check your facts in future before jumping on somebody else's band wagon. Which, by the way, was exactly what sniffy did in complaining about a process in which she had chosen to play no part.
Ophiolite,
Just admit you are an Anarchist and just detest any form of Hierarchy, it would explain why sometimes you get so frustrated at moderators or the way the forum functions. If it's the case then obviously it would help moderators knowing that because they won't take you're insultive narratives as personal attacks and reason that it's just your wayward political thinking.
Just admit you are an Anarchist and just detest any form of Hierarchy, it would explain why sometimes you get so frustrated at moderators or the way the forum functions. If it's the case then obviously it would help moderators knowing that because they won't take you're insultive narratives as personal attacks and reason that it's just your wayward political thinking.
Didn't you also leave forums in a huff for the very same reasons? And, then you came back?
Hindsight great thing isn't it? If you recall I asked about the process. Perhaps not in a way that you like James but nevertheless I asked.
I refer you to the 'All in Moderation' thread I posted in SF earlier this week in which I asked about the recruitment process albeit in a light-hearted and tongue in cheek way. Now I'm sure you know sniffy well enough to understand that sniffy can discuss some very, very serious matters in a light-hearted and tongue in cheek way. Now there might be some issues that perhaps should never been discussed in a light-hearted and tongue in cheek way but that is a subject for another thread.
Warning: facts coming up! James if you doubt these facts I'm more than willing to provide evidence to back them up. You know what evidence is don't you James?
Now if you and I make accusations we better both be sure we have evidence to back them up. Point taken....
Some facts:
I have had professional involvement in employee recruitment, both paid and voluntary; for private, governmental and third sector organisations. Said recruitment includes both the external and internal. Now I'm going to make an assumption here James that you understand the difference between 'external' and 'internal' recruitment?
So far so good. Recruitment procedures can vary widely depending upon the type of organisation doing the recruitment but I believe there is a great deal of difference between good and bad practice. for instance, I've worked with private organisations that have had good procedures and public ones that have had bad procedures.
Savvy?
Now I lead a very busy life. If you doubt this at all; again I'm willing to provide evidence. I expect there are one or two people here who would also be willing to put their money where my mouth is. If necessary I will ask them to.
In any human life there are important things, serious things and things that don't matter at all. (There is also a thing called perspective that some people around here seem to think I'm blissfully unaware of). What you will find is that these three categories are very variable between one individual and another. Now just in case you don't undersatand what I'm talking about let me spell it right out....
What is important and serious to one person may not matter at all to another.
Now one enters dangerous water if one starts to ridicule or make trivial what may be important to another because one may not be fully aware exactly what a person has invested in the thing you are ridiculing. You might even start to talk about perpective in a really condescending way or in another way entirely. Perspective is important I do agree.
Soooo, supposing a private company decides to make an internal appointment. Before it does any recruitment it might just have a look at it's procedure if there is one. It might be setting a precedent and therefore have to come up with an entirely new framework.
Now at this point I am going to say something about choice seeing as you are accusing me of not exercising my choice. But this is what happened:
I saw a thread inviting members to nominate themselves for something. Thread locked. Now I could have banged off a few PMs. I could even have put a word in for a few people who are my favourites (LOL!) but then I made a choice not to. Not wanting to influence a pseudodemocratic process.... Private website....... oligarchy..... meritocracy?
Are you still with me James? Now people might be thinking pfft hindsight why didn't sniffy just say all this before? Hah! There's the rub.
So I sat back and I made an assumption. That there are some intelligent people here. I also made the assumption that because there are some intelligent people here that they might just use their intelligence and act in a particular way. Now because I have experience in employee recruitment I expected things to happen in a particular way but they didn't. OK private website....oligarchy...meritocracy. If I don't like it I can just f off!
Now let's get back to investment and what people might have invested in this website and in particular in nominating themselves (publicly mind you) for a moderator position on said website.
Nothing at all.
Something.
A fair amount.
A lot.
And you might make a value judgement about the amount people invest and why and that might lead you to assume certain things.
Are you still with me James? I really hope so.
Now people are funny things. They say things they don't always mean and don't always mean what they say. It can make interpersonal relationships a bit of a minefield.
So for instance somebody might say: 'Oh it doesn't matter. I'm not really bothered.' When in actual fact they may well be 'bovvered'. It depends entirely what they have invested.....
Now we could start to talk about my motivations for doing what I did the way I did it. But guess what we are not. Accusations have already been made about sniffy's motivations. No evidence forthcoming.
Suffice to say sniffy knows that a significant number of things in the universe are not about sniffy.
Sniffy can be sensitive, sniffy can be intuitive, sniffy can be paranoid, sniffy can be logical, sniffy can be emotional, sniffy can make assumptions, sniffy can make a complete arsehole of herself, in short all the things that make humans, human.
But, for the record, there are some things that sniffy won't do because sniffy has a backbone. If you doubt it sniffy is willing to provide evidence.
Now sniffy has some issues (LOL!). Some of these issues are important. Some of these issues are serious. Some of these issues don't matter at all in the general scheme of things.
Some issues are pertinent to this website and sniffy has already started to take these up with Fraggle Rocker who BTW has recently gone way up in my estimation.
Whatever value you might attach to sniffy's estimation.
Or perspective.
classic
"publically"="narky and overly defensive and offensive"
come out into to the open with an issue and james will fuck you up? is that what he is implying?
/snicker
Hello brothers and sisters of sciforums. Shoulda, coulda, woulda with hindsight.
A virtual scenario:
Character 1: Hey can you (shouts): C**T on this forum?
Character 2: WHOA! I don't think you can (shouts) C**T on this forum but I'll just go and and check.
Character 2: WTF! You can shout C**T on this forum. (Shouts):C**T. C**T. C**T. C**T! LOL.
Character 3: Well well well. I didn't know you could shout C**T on this forum.
Character 2: WTF character 3!! Didn't you know you could shout C**T on this forum? This is an internet site FFS! It's on the internet!! You know the internet? And whilst your at it did you know that this is a website and a website is on the internet? And a website can be altered? Any website can be altered did you know that? On the internet any website can be altered? Especially one that is privately owned? Get some perspective.
Character 3: Yes I knew all that but I didn't know that you could (shouts) C**T on this forum.
Character 2: What are you? Are you an idiot? Are you crazy? Are you stupid? Are you paranoid? Are you dishonest? Because I think your character is a bit iffy? I also think you are a bit of a cry baby. Any idiot here on this website knows that you can (shouts) C**T!
Character 3: Character 2 are you a moderator on this website?
Character 2: What? Seriously? You have to ask whether or not I'm a moderator on this website? What are you? Stupid? Are you crazy? Are you paranoid? Are you even honest? You are certainly a cry baby.
Character 3: Hmm. Yes I think I'm pretty honest most of the time.
Character 2: Well your posts elsewhere here suggest that you are not honest. That you have a rather iffy character. And that you bear grudges.
Character 3: Really?
Character 2: Yep. And do you know what else? You are an idiot. You are stupid and you are in fact paranoid. In addition you don't seem to be able to grasp that this is a website forum and that all website forums can be altered by the management at any time for any reason. Now when I say altered I mean anything at all can be altered anything at all. Anything at all even poll results. Have I made that quite clear? By the way do you know I'm a moderator here?
Character 3: OK. So character 2 you have confirmed that you are a moderator here. On this website. On the internet. You are a moderator here. On this forum right?
Character 2: Listen I've already said all of those things. Here out loud and clear for all to see. (Shouts) Do you know I've also got a very, very, very, big d**k?
Character 3: No I didn't know that you've got a big d**k Character 2. I didn't want to know that you've got a very big d**k but you've told me that anyway so thanks for that you (shouts) C**T!
Character 2: You shouted C**T. You shouted C**T. You shouted C**T. Don't you know shouting C**T breaks the rules around here?
Character 3: Are you saying that shouting C**T breaks the rules around here?
Character 2: What do I have to do to get it into your thick skull that shouting C**T breaks the rules around here?
Character 3: I don't know you could just (shout) C**T and see what happens.
Character 2: Well C**T if you don't like the rules why don't you just F**K off elsewhere? This isn't a democracy it is a tyranny. Didn't you know that? So why don't you just F**K off? You came here to this private website. You read the rules right? You signed the contract on this private website right? And by the way this is a website and anything on this website can be altered dummy don't you know that? Anything here can be altered. You signed up you know the rules you probably didn't understand them but if you don't like it like I said why don't you just fuck off?
Character 3: Tell me character 2. Do you know the difference between an oligarchy and a tyranny?
Character 2: Did you just accuse me of trying to alter poll results?
Character 3: Er no. If I did make accusations like that or similar I'd have to back them up with evidence or be prepared to make a grovelling apology, face public humiliation, that sort of thing.
Character 2: Look this is a fucking website right. It is alterable. Anything at all here can be altered. Anything. So if you are going to accuse me of altering something so that I look like less of an a******e you better have some pretty good evidence.
Character 3: Sighs. Are you a member of this website? Are you a member and a moderator here?
Character 2: WTF? Are you stupid? Are you crazy? Are you paranoid? Are you dumb? Are you emotional? Are you throwing a tantrum? Can you speak Spanish? I can. Are you an idiot? Do you know if you sign up to something you should know everything there is to know about this website. You should always read the small print. Cos if you don't you'll end up looking like a complete tit? And don't take any of this seriously you sad loser who doesn't have a life or any perspective.
Character 3: Sighs. Thought so.....
Now we are going to find out who on this here website forum is a chordate and who is a coelenterate. And who just has a very, very, very big d**K.
And do you know how we are going to judge that?
By the responses.
And before you wade in and question my motivations make sure you read the above scenario very, very carefully and make sure you fully understand what I'm saying BEFORE you wade in because it will be a measure of your intelligence NOT sniffys.
Oh and BTW if there are any lingering doubts here that I'm taking this very, very seriously..... for the record I am.
Now I just posted something in very big letters. No doubt someone here will accuse me of having an hysterical tantrum or rant. Hmm Well if you don't want hysterical rants I suggest you don't have a large font option on this here website. Or do things that might provoke hysterical rants and tantrums if indeed that is what has just occured....
Perhaps I should just go and get a life, eh? Or go to another forum and moan about this one. Or perhaps I should stick around a wee bit longer to see what happens.
Oh by the way on the matter of altering polls some evidence:
---Quote---
The other thing is I was not aware until it came up in a thread that poll results could be altered by a moderator. The moderator himself didn't seem to realise this either until he tried it for himself.
---End Quote---
That came up on the Moderators' board. Nobody knew that was possible, it's the peculiarities of the software engine SciForums uses. Apparently it happened by accident. I don't know why anybody would want to change a poll unless a member asks to have his vote retracted. (People don't always realize that the way they vote is on display to everybody.)
A virtual scenario:
Character 1: Hey can you (shouts): C**T on this forum?
Character 2: WHOA! I don't think you can (shouts) C**T on this forum but I'll just go and and check.
Character 2: WTF! You can shout C**T on this forum. (Shouts):C**T. C**T. C**T. C**T! LOL.
Character 3: Well well well. I didn't know you could shout C**T on this forum.
Character 2: WTF character 3!! Didn't you know you could shout C**T on this forum? This is an internet site FFS! It's on the internet!! You know the internet? And whilst your at it did you know that this is a website and a website is on the internet? And a website can be altered? Any website can be altered did you know that? On the internet any website can be altered? Especially one that is privately owned? Get some perspective.
Character 3: Yes I knew all that but I didn't know that you could (shouts) C**T on this forum.
Character 2: What are you? Are you an idiot? Are you crazy? Are you stupid? Are you paranoid? Are you dishonest? Because I think your character is a bit iffy? I also think you are a bit of a cry baby. Any idiot here on this website knows that you can (shouts) C**T!
Character 3: Character 2 are you a moderator on this website?
Character 2: What? Seriously? You have to ask whether or not I'm a moderator on this website? What are you? Stupid? Are you crazy? Are you paranoid? Are you even honest? You are certainly a cry baby.
Character 3: Hmm. Yes I think I'm pretty honest most of the time.
Character 2: Well your posts elsewhere here suggest that you are not honest. That you have a rather iffy character. And that you bear grudges.
Character 3: Really?
Character 2: Yep. And do you know what else? You are an idiot. You are stupid and you are in fact paranoid. In addition you don't seem to be able to grasp that this is a website forum and that all website forums can be altered by the management at any time for any reason. Now when I say altered I mean anything at all can be altered anything at all. Anything at all even poll results. Have I made that quite clear? By the way do you know I'm a moderator here?
Character 3: OK. So character 2 you have confirmed that you are a moderator here. On this website. On the internet. You are a moderator here. On this forum right?
Character 2: Listen I've already said all of those things. Here out loud and clear for all to see. (Shouts) Do you know I've also got a very, very, very, big d**k?
Character 3: No I didn't know that you've got a big d**k Character 2. I didn't want to know that you've got a very big d**k but you've told me that anyway so thanks for that you (shouts) C**T!
Character 2: You shouted C**T. You shouted C**T. You shouted C**T. Don't you know shouting C**T breaks the rules around here?
Character 3: Are you saying that shouting C**T breaks the rules around here?
Character 2: What do I have to do to get it into your thick skull that shouting C**T breaks the rules around here?
Character 3: I don't know you could just (shout) C**T and see what happens.
Character 2: Well C**T if you don't like the rules why don't you just F**K off elsewhere? This isn't a democracy it is a tyranny. Didn't you know that? So why don't you just F**K off? You came here to this private website. You read the rules right? You signed the contract on this private website right? And by the way this is a website and anything on this website can be altered dummy don't you know that? Anything here can be altered. You signed up you know the rules you probably didn't understand them but if you don't like it like I said why don't you just fuck off?
Character 3: Tell me character 2. Do you know the difference between an oligarchy and a tyranny?
Character 2: Did you just accuse me of trying to alter poll results?
Character 3: Er no. If I did make accusations like that or similar I'd have to back them up with evidence or be prepared to make a grovelling apology, face public humiliation, that sort of thing.
Character 2: Look this is a fucking website right. It is alterable. Anything at all here can be altered. Anything. So if you are going to accuse me of altering something so that I look like less of an a******e you better have some pretty good evidence.
Character 3: Sighs. Are you a member of this website? Are you a member and a moderator here?
Character 2: WTF? Are you stupid? Are you crazy? Are you paranoid? Are you dumb? Are you emotional? Are you throwing a tantrum? Can you speak Spanish? I can. Are you an idiot? Do you know if you sign up to something you should know everything there is to know about this website. You should always read the small print. Cos if you don't you'll end up looking like a complete tit? And don't take any of this seriously you sad loser who doesn't have a life or any perspective.
Character 3: Sighs. Thought so.....
Now we are going to find out who on this here website forum is a chordate and who is a coelenterate. And who just has a very, very, very big d**K.
And do you know how we are going to judge that?
By the responses.
And before you wade in and question my motivations make sure you read the above scenario very, very carefully and make sure you fully understand what I'm saying BEFORE you wade in because it will be a measure of your intelligence NOT sniffys.
Oh and BTW if there are any lingering doubts here that I'm taking this very, very seriously..... for the record I am.
Now I just posted something in very big letters. No doubt someone here will accuse me of having an hysterical tantrum or rant. Hmm Well if you don't want hysterical rants I suggest you don't have a large font option on this here website. Or do things that might provoke hysterical rants and tantrums if indeed that is what has just occured....
Perhaps I should just go and get a life, eh? Or go to another forum and moan about this one. Or perhaps I should stick around a wee bit longer to see what happens.
Oh by the way on the matter of altering polls some evidence:
---Quote---
The other thing is I was not aware until it came up in a thread that poll results could be altered by a moderator. The moderator himself didn't seem to realise this either until he tried it for himself.
---End Quote---
That came up on the Moderators' board. Nobody knew that was possible, it's the peculiarities of the software engine SciForums uses. Apparently it happened by accident. I don't know why anybody would want to change a poll unless a member asks to have his vote retracted. (People don't always realize that the way they vote is on display to everybody.)