A non-chemical theory of aging.

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Originally posted by Avatar
if their nervous system oveloads I think that not- you can not turn overloading into other direction.
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OK. Now, try to classify what does it means the nervous system overloads? What is the common factor in all nervous system overloads? The common is that a person cannot handle information that he/she accepted (therefore, it always has a relative meaning). A possible conclusion - the reason of fast aging was information overload. To say shortly - information overload is a possible reason of any aging process (before you will tell me opposite in your opinion facts - try to convert everything to information to explain your cases. With this approach you can explain facts in my posts: Yogis, Rasputin's last day, etc.). If this is the truth - we can reverse aging by deleting of unnecessary information from the cellular level. Physical changes will happen automatically, because this information links with physical matter (the only way to store info). Physical matter cannot exist without linked info. It means, that an extra physical matter (old cells, etc.) will disappear according to the level of deleted info. Thus, according this possibility, we can look and feel as 20 during 300-400 years.

If this is not enough for the beginning, please, consider that I tried to explain the theory as simple as I can.
 
it wouldn't work because as I said before there are many other cells that are not linked to the nervous system, but they age

OK. Now, try to classify what does it means the nervous system overloads?
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the fact that nervous system overloads was/is only my assumption. I'm no biologist, therefore can not verify that
 
Well, What weird junk is this? It says information is "dumped" in cells. Thats such a load of crap. What "information". A person is not a computer.

I think the most prominent view of why people die is that cells degenerate into cancers of psudo-cancers, which render things inpoerable.

Death is complicated and not caused by one thing alone. 100 years ago most deaths came from desieses that destroyed certain vital organs. Now the vital organ of your arteries can get clogged by material thus suffocating your cells from within. Cancer is a very natural way to die, everyone gets cancer because it comes from the incorrect division of cells in your body. There is no death chemical that your body lets out. Cancer cells form everywhere and most probably everyone has them by age 20. Don't quote me on that, but think about the billions of cells that have to divide, something has to go wrong. These cancer cells may be dead weight and end up making vital organs inopperable. Does skin cancer kill people?
 
Were you saying that as a joke? That might actually work. I mean, cells have proteins in them that help for cells to "recognize" cells of its same type. I'd bet the cancer cells have pretty much the same structure, but if they could it would be very useful. We might even be able to create viruses that can attack cells where abnormal internal behavior occurs.
 
Please, read my previous post again and you will see that a type of cell makes no difference in the final result. The matter is, that we can defeat physical aging, as well as cancer, etc., without direct genetic manipulations that make our modern science so proud.

Scientists need to find the way on how to manipulate information on the cellular level. For instance, about 30 years ago, one US clinic conducted, I would say, an informational experiment. What is the most effective method of treatment: placebo or real drugs. But, the difference with other placebo experiments was that nobody knew which remedies were real drugs and which remedies were placebo. The result: all placebo remedies worked better than real drugs except morphine. Placebo morphine was 10% less effective than real morphine. Why placebo remedies worked better than real drugs? There was no hypnosis, no psychotherapy. What the mysterious force was working? A possible explanation:

1. Placebo remedies do not have side effects.
2. Somehow information about what the drugs should do - was executed in the patient's bodies. In other words, the information, not chemicals was the main treating factor.

This is one more evidence that non-chemical (informational) treatment of physical problems/diseases is possible. As you understand, the development of this experiment was killed immediately, because manufacturing of drugs is a huge business (should we be proud about achievements of pharmaceutical companies)?

What I am talking about is that any technology carrying the task of how to put or delete information on the cellular level is far more advanced than all modern wonders we have now. The only thing that modern genetic science can do well is production of destructive technologies/weapons, because alterations of genetic code without knowledge of following interactions - can cause only troubles. Instead, there are safe solutions based on the different approach. And instead of putting money before health (killing any positive beginnings) - think about the future of our children whose world we are going to spoil now.
 
Originally posted by drg
...The matter is, that we can defeat physical aging, as well as cancer, etc., without direct genetic manipulations that make our modern science so proud.

Scientists need to find the way on how to manipulate information on the cellular level...What I am talking about is that any technology carrying the task of how to put or delete information on the cellular level is far more advanced than all modern wonders we have now. The only thing that modern genetic science can do well is production of destructive technologies/weapons, because alterations of genetic code without knowledge of following interactions - can cause only troubles.
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You're an uneducated crackpot. All information in a cell is stored on the molecular level; it's chemically encoded, primarily in DNA. Any alteration to the information is a cell will by necessity involve biochemical manipulation. If you had even the most basic understanding of cellular biology, you would know this.

As for the genetic engineering that you seem to hate so much, do you have any actual data to back up your extravagant claims? You claim that genetic manipulation 'can cause only troubles', but to date genetic manipulation has created many effective new drug therapies, plants that are resistant to insects without the use of pesticides, potential treatments for people with genetic disorders, and many other benefits. What harm has it caused? Where are the 'troubles' that you're so concerned about?

You should learn a few things about biology and chemistry before you waste people's time with nonsense like this.
 
<i><b>Nasor wrote:</b> You're an uneducated crackpot. All information in a cell is stored on the molecular level; it's chemically encoded, primarily in DNA. Any alteration to the information is a cell will by necessity involve biochemical manipulation. If you had even the most basic understanding of cellular biology, you would know this.</i>

DNA is an obvious visible consequence of where information is stored. But it is not the bottom line. Therefore, you have no idea how to change DNA code using special techniques of binding information. For example, how to correct genetic defects of newborn children or how to get a hen from a duck's egg without direct genetic manipulations. (You need to get extra education about the force that drives DNA and other chemicals. Why do fresh cut apples start to lose vitamin C immediately? Because of DNA?).

What genetic engineering is doing can be compare with what they should do as Stone Age technologies with modern technologies. Your knowledge is not higher.

<i><b>Nasor wrote:</b> You claim that genetic manipulation 'can cause only, but to date genetic manipulation has created many effective new drug therapies, plants that are resistant to insects without the use of pesticides, potential treatments for people with genetic disorders, and many other benefits. What harm has it caused? Where are 'troubles' that you're so concerned about?</i>

Did you ever hear about genetic experiments called "chimeras" (about 25 years ago)? Nowadays genetic things that you are claim as helpful were proven as dangerous many year ago. Genetic manipulation is using for business but not for actual help (because of long term side effects). Can you say that produced by genetically altered bacteria insulin is the cure for diabetics? You may say that diabetics have no choice, but they have it and bosses of genetic engineers just do not let this info to go.

I wish to explain you more, but you have to little knowledge about the issue.
 
how to get a hen from a duck's egg without direct genetic manipulations.
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why? what's the difference- we would be doing manipulations anyway
But it is not the bottom line
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oh- what is?
What genetic engineering is doing can be compare with what they should do as Stone Age technologies with modern technologies
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you hate genetic engeneering

I wish to explain you more, but you have to little knowledge about the issue.
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very logical:rolleyes:
 
drug:

You wouldn't happen to be religious would you be?

You talk about this information, but what is the actual phisical mechanism? Computer store information in hard disks as little nitches and temporarily as a code of transistors that are either on or off. Tapes, records, cds, harddrives, and even writing are all information stored as nitches or symbols on a magnetic or hard surface.
What in cells would be this "information" and where would the "information" come from? The concept of information is a vauge one to say the least, it is like saying cells store facts. A fact is an idea, its not tangeble. Neither is information.

"Why do fresh cut apples start to lose vitamin C immediately? "

Do they? I've never heard of this... I looked it up and couldn't find anything. Im sure -information- has very little to do with this if it is true.

"Nowadays genetic things that you are claim as helpful were proven as dangerous many year ago. "

Any technology can be "good" or "bad". We could engineer plants to kill us, but no we would rather engineer them to help us. Claiming that genetic engineering is "bad" is uncalled for. It is like saying houses are bad.... as oppsed to caves...

Do you think we should go back to being hunter gatherers, (or farther down the evolutionary path) algae?

"Genetic manipulation is using for business but not for actual help "

That is such bullshit. This so reminds me of Muscleman's claim that the Devil was trying to take over the world..... Genetic manipulation is expensive and vegitables aren't getting any more expensive.... The bussinesses actually use it to create foods that yeild more (more money for them) and do things so they don't need to (pest resistant plants). Geneticists also are creating foods that are actually more good for you. People like food that is good for you, therefore they will make more money. Its simple.
 
DNA is an obvious visible consequence of where information is stored. But it is not the bottom line.
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Yes, actually, it is. Nearly everything about the structure and function of a cell can be broken down to DNA and relatively simple chemistry. That's not to say that everything about the workings of cells is understood, but everything can be explained as chemical reactions, directed by DNA at the most fundamental level. The only thing 'below' DNA would be biochemistry, but DNA is definitely where the information is stored.
Can you say that produced by genetically altered bacteria insulin is the cure for diabetics? You may say that diabetics have no choice, but they have it and bosses of genetic engineers just do not let this info to go.
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Ah yes, now there's an international conspiracy of scientists to withhold information. That makes perfect sense.

The really amazing part is that your primary source for this thread is a website that's obviously just a scam to get money out of people who weren't paying attention in highschool biology class.
 
<i><b>drg's quote:</b> how to get a hen from a duck's egg without direct genetic manipulations.
<b>Avatar's quote:</b> why? what's the difference- we would be doing manipulations anyway</i>

The difference is that first method allows to transform duck's DNA into hen's DNA and get a completely healthy and normal hen from a duck's egg. If our modern genetic engineering will try to do the same - they can get only a new monster.

<i><b>drg's quote:</b> But it is not the bottom line
<b>Avatar's quote:</b> oh- what is?</i>

The things that drive DNA, destination and action of chemicals, etc. The things can be active and passive. As a rule we have a deal with a passive form, therefore, it looks that DNA (physical matter) is the most important factor. If we will physically change it - we will get a predictable result. But, if we activate those things - any humanly designed law can be violated (to change a physical structure without visible physical reason, to drink poison without harm, etc.). It is not a mystery, it is just a next step of physic, or you can call it as a next step of science (real science, because it works with the reasons instead of cosequances).

<i><b>drg's quote:</b> What genetic engineering is doing can be compare with what they should do as Stone Age technologies with modern technologies
<b>Avatar's quote:</b> you hate genetic engeneering</i>

I just do not see any sense to do it now (on the stage of science) except for military purposes.

<i><b>drg's quote:</b> I wish to explain you more, but you have to little knowledge about the issue.
<b>Avatar's quote:</b> very logical</i>

First, in order to talk further, I need to explain to you that meaning of information in the theory is different from common logic. I use the word "information" here because it has many common features with the common logic. In the both meanings - "information" is passive and cannot interact with the physical matter. For instance, if I will say a command "sleep" - nobody will sleep, or if I will say I want to turn a pig into a hen - nothing will happen. But, there is a possibility to give the words (information) some power if we implement another "player". To say shortly, if we will combine an architect (system information) with builders (the things) - we can get a house (a physical result). If word "information" is more or less understandable, but second meaning do not have any analogy in our language. Of course, it has a name with special meaning, but it is a long story of explanation. I can explain it and show what you can do with the new knowledge, but can you tell me any reason for what? Yes, it allows to manipulate genes without of knowledge of DNA as well as you can operate TV without knowledge of its electronic blueprint (or you have to know it?) I do not say that we have to stop DNA studies; I am saying that direct genetic manipulations should not be the first priority of humanity.
 
To all my critics and defenders of genetic engineering.

To all my critics and defenders of genetic engineering. Guy, before you are talking about safety and pseudo-conspiracy read info below and I think: <b>"Do you really posses all necessary information to judge things that you do not understand?"</b>

<ul>We can judge the approach of the traditional medicine from an article published in Health Breakthroughs magazine in the Winter issue, 1997 (page 8), by Dr. William C. Douglass, M.D.: "Indeed, side effects from drugs put an estimated 1.6 million people in the hospital every year." Another doctor, David Williams says: "<b>160,000 people die each year because of adverse reactions to prescription drugs.</b>" COMPARE WITH ALL THE LOSSES OF AMERICANS DURING THE VIETNAM WAR DURING 10 YEARS: <b>53,000</b>

<b>102 out of 198 drugs approved by the FDA (52% drugs!!!)</b> between 1978 and 1986 <b>had "serious post-approval risks</b> such as heart failure...convulsions...kidney and liver failure...birth defects and blindness" (reported by the General Accounting Office).</ul>

Look at the overall picture-puzzle collected from the Fact Database of Health Breakthroughs magazine (Winter 1997) and judge for yourself:

<ul>In New York City, tuberculosis is making a comeback. And fully a third of these new cases are resistant to antibiotics.

In Britain, over 60 percent of staph infections are now drug-resistant.

And in South Africa, there was an outbreak of hospital-acquired strep infections that did not respond to normal treatment.

The popular over-the-counter cold medicine makes cancer cells spread like crazy! A study at a leading cancer center proves it makes tumors grow 2 times faster!

Alka Seltzer is able to cause Alzheimer's disease (shocking new findings)!

The common blood-pressure drug increases your heart attack risk. A study shows that people who take it are 60 percent more likely to have a heart attack!

An FDA-approved food additive that is so dangerous it was once classified by the Pentagon as a biochemical weapon!

Using Tylenol for a hangover can cause serious liver damage!

Combining cold medicine and antibiotics can kill you!

You've been hypnotized to believe that an aspirin a day prevents heart attack. Studies show that there is no difference in the death rates of the group which took a daily aspirin and the group which did not. You do not know what aspirin companies have hidden - to get the best study results, they mixed aspirin with magnesium. It is not aspirin that prevents heart attack, but magnesium! Magnesium is totally safe and it dilates blood vessels, acts as a natural blood thinner and hinders the formation of blood clots. Regular use of aspirin can lead to peptic ulcers and reduce the body's production of important hormones. Recent studies link aspirin to macular degeneration - the number one cause of bleeding in people over the age of 55! You need to stop taking a daily aspirin and stick to magnesium instead!
</ul>
 
"I am saying that direct genetic manipulations should not be the first priority of humanity."

Well, i don't think it is. You win there.
 
While it's true that adverse drug reactions kill tens of thousands (or more) people every year, they save millions.

Not that it really matters; genetic engineering has little to do with prescription drugs.
 
<i><b>Frencheneesz wrote:</b> drugs are a whole different story from genetics. I don't like taking pills myself.</i>

You are right as well as we were starting to talk about aging, but, my point was: "Do you really posses all necessary information to judge things that you do not understand?"

For instance, I know that many really good things cannot go on not because they are bad, but because they are interacting with big "money bags". Only scientists know what does words "serious scientific research" mean. I spoke with many scientists in the U.S. and asked them: "why are you doing this cheating"? We are in a free country. Their basic answer sounds like: "We have families and children. We need to put bread on the table. Yes, we are cheating, but they pay us money."

It is much easier to have a deal with a worthless idea, because a worthless idea has much less interactions to count and the most important - non-brilliant-mind investors can easily understand it and, therefore, open their pockets for the research. Who has money - usually are not smart enough to understand complex scientific ideas. They replace an ability to think with an ability to feel blood, I mean money. Those abilities are opposite (you cannot call a shark as a smartest creature, because it can smell blood well). Thus, the same investors never will give money on serious complicated research no matter what. The result: … I cannot prove it directly, but if you have friends-scientists - they should tell you the truth (every scientist knows what's going on). People often forget the power of "black magic" symbols: money and greed - that still go before everything.

Therefore, if you never heard about certain things - it does not mean they do not exist. If information can benefit people, but also seriously can hurt existing money-making machine - "money bags" prefer to keep this info for special use rather than switching to a new revolutionary technology. Therefore, according to the statistic, any major discoveries wait about 100-150 years until "money bags" will become more educated.

Do you see the pattern?
 
You ignore the fact that many high-tech companies are financed and managed almost exclusively by people who are very knowledgeable about science and technology. Try getting a managerial job at Merk or IBM without having a hard science or engineering degree; they won't even look twice at your application. For that matter, many of the largest high-tech companies were founded by scientists and engineers.

Your claim that "any major discoveries wait about 100-150 years" is bizarre beyond comprehension. I suppose you think someone knew how to make semi-conductor microchips in 1850, or that scientists knew about DNA in the early 1800's? Maybe they secretly developed quantum theory in 1780, right after the American Revolution?
 
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