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A new take on an old question. . .
- Thread starter Learned Hand
- Start date
sowhatifit'sdark
Valued Senior Member
You can assume the lack of deaf people, as "no one is around to hear it," whether deaf or not. But you are on the right track.
I have mulled a little on whether 'proverbial' eliminates the reality of the tree. I do not think it does. In everyday speech people refer to actual existant nouns as the 'proverbial __________' despite whatever ironies this may create.
Another issue for me is the premise of the question. If we can presume that it falls, we can certainly presume other qualities of the phenomenon.
Learned Hand
Registered Senior Member
I say take the premise as true, as it is the only way to derive what is the color of the tree.
sowhatifit'sdark
Valued Senior Member
Then I feel liberated:
Answer 1: the tree is green.
Evidence:
Answer 2: no color
Evidence: There is not a tree in heaven higher than the tree of patience.
If one allows the extension of the metaphor when patience 'falls', as opposed to the dead metaphor 'when patience runs out'. Patience not being visible has no color.
Answer 3: Green and brown
Evidence:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...one).jpg/280px-Cotton_Tree_(Sierra_Leone).jpg
Answer 1: the tree is green.
Evidence:
Keep a green tree in your heart and perhaps a singing bird will come (Chinese proverb)
Answer 2: no color
Evidence: There is not a tree in heaven higher than the tree of patience.
If one allows the extension of the metaphor when patience 'falls', as opposed to the dead metaphor 'when patience runs out'. Patience not being visible has no color.
Answer 3: Green and brown
Evidence:
andNo matter how low a cotton tree falls, it's still taller than grass. (Krio proverbs – Sierra leone)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...one).jpg/280px-Cotton_Tree_(Sierra_Leone).jpg
sowhatifit'sdark
Valued Senior Member
depends on the proverb.
I found some that were apples trees.
Others were palm and cotton.
Some were simply 'green'.
I found some that were apples trees.
Others were palm and cotton.
Some were simply 'green'.
Learned Hand
Registered Senior Member
Yet, as stated in previous replies on this thread, a tree is not always green, or brown for that matter . . .
To the scientists the tree is the same color as the surrounding trees due to the lack of evidence to suggest trees are any other color.
To the philosopher the tree is any possible color. It could be red or green or blue or brown and all possibilities are equal. But more importantly its not the color of the tree that matters but why it fell in the first place.
To the philosopher the tree is any possible color. It could be red or green or blue or brown and all possibilities are equal. But more importantly its not the color of the tree that matters but why it fell in the first place.
Learned Hand
Registered Senior Member
sly1 is most correct. The tree is any color, or more particularly, all colors. Kudos sly1.
Learned
Learned
sowhatifit'sdark
Valued Senior Member
Yet, as stated in previous replies on this thread, a tree is not always green, or brown for that matter . . .
Sure: 'a tree'.
But 'the proverbial tree' - in that Chinese proverb - is green.
I am not sure you can say I am wrong. You can say that was not the proverbial tree you were referring to, but I satisfied the question as given.
Learned Hand
Registered Senior Member
Sure: 'a tree'.
But 'the proverbial tree' - in that Chinese proverb - is green.
I am not sure you can say I am wrong. You can say that was not the proverbial tree you were referring to, but I satisfied the question as given.
Well sowhatifit'sdark, I'll give you 10 creativity points for originality and research in looking into Chinese proverbs. However, credit for the philosophically (and logically) correct answer must go to sky1. "Proverbial," in this instance, was an adjective describing that one tree everyone talks about that falls in forest when no one is around and no one is around to hear it. But nevertheless, creativity is worth some decent credit.
Learned
sowhatifit'sdark
Valued Senior Member
Well sowhatifit'sdark, I'll give you 10 creativity points for originality and research in looking into Chinese proverbs. However, credit for the philosophically (and logically) correct answer must go to sky1. "Proverbial," in this instance, was an adjective describing that one tree everyone talks about that falls in forest when no one is around and no one is around to hear it. But nevertheless, creativity is worth some decent credit.
Learned
I suppose I should graciously accept credit for creativity rather than correctness - it is perhaps the story of my life so far.
As a last, and childish, defense of my answer, I submit the following:
prov·erb
1. a short popular saying, usually of unknown and ancient origin, that expresses effectively some commonplace truth or useful thought; adage; saw.
2. a wise saying or precept; a didactic sentence.
The tree in the 'if a tree falls in a forest and no one is there....' etc. is a noun in a question.
A proverb, on the other hand, is an assertion of truth. It is a statement and proverbs are statements and not questions.
Hence this tree that you and sly1 are referring to is not a (or 'the') proverbial tree. The Chinese green tree I mentioned is one of the possible proverbial trees since it is referred to in a proverb in statement form.
I hereby leave this thread, knowing I have done my best, despite whatever interference my personality has run.
Thank You.
So.