380acp

[R1D2]

training purposes

If you think a 380 is not adequate, volunteer to be shot by one. You can wear a vest. If ya want..... And/or talk with some who have that are still able. Of course a really drugged up person may keep coming being shot that's why you have more than one round. So keep shooting and hit the head.

 

[Kittamaru]

R1D2, problem is the head is a pretty small target, especially in the thick of that adrenal "oh shit" response. Take a read through all the stories of gunfights between officers and criminals where dozens of rounds have been fired only to have neither party injured.

 

[Grumpy]

R1D2

If you think a 380 is not adequate, volunteer to be shot by one.

I've been shot, but it was an AK 7.62. Hurt like hell but missed the bone, thankfully.

But don't mistake the ability to injure someone(even fatally)with the ability to STOP a person. The purpose of shooting someone is to stop them, not to injure them so they die, eventually. I can shoot you fatally with a 22, but it is unlikely to stop a motivated individual from killing me before he dies. With a 45 I am CERTAIN I can stop you from doing whatever it is you are doing(shooting at me, lunging with a knife, attacking someone else or running toward me). You would have to get up off the floor to continue and I would just shoot you again, if necessary. That is what adequate means. You can probably disable someone quicker by hitting them with a 380 pistol than you can by shooting them with one, that's inadequate.

Of course a really drugged up person may keep coming being shot that's why you have more than one round.

You make my point for me. Police officers have shot people 13 times(a full clip in the Beretta)and been stabbed to death with a kitchen knife, the assailant didn't even die, though he eventually fell down. More inadequate rounds may not do the job. This is why I would rather have 2 rounds of 45 ACP than a whole clip of 9MM, the 380 is even wimpier than that. Spray and pray just doesn't work if what you are spraying are spitballs.

So keep shooting and hit the head.

No, shoot once to the center of mass, save the headshot for the second round. With a 45, the first round will stop anyone with any solid hit anywhere on the body, I don't care what substance they are abusing, it's a matter of kenetic energy. That means you may not have to kill them to stop them.

"General Julian Hatcher, a noted forensic pathologist, in the early 1900’s developed a good formula to determine the theoretical stopping power of a firearm cartridge. His formula has withstood the test of time and validation from other studies and data related to stopping power.
You want a handgun cartridge that has a Hatcher value of over 50 for the most effective stopping power. Values over 55 have diminishing returns in that you don’t gain any significant increase in stopping power for the extra recoil and control you must cope with. Handgun cartridges that don’t make a value of at least 50, should not considered for self-defense. If the rating of your handgun cartridge is under 30, it only has about a 30% chance of producing a one shot stop. Hatcher Ratings of 30 to 49 raise a one shot stop to approximately a 50% chance. Ratings of 50 or higher produce a one shot stop about 90% of the time.

.45 ACP full metal jacket 230 grain .......... 49.1
.45 ACP jacketed hollow point 230 grain ...... 60.7
.44 Magnum full metal jacket 240 grain ....... 92.3
.44 Magnum lead wad cutter 240 grain ......... 136.8.
.44 Special full metal jacket 240 grain ...... 51.6
.44 Special lead wad cutter 240 grain ............. 76.5
.41 Magnum full metal jacket 230 grain ............. 54
.41 Magnum lead wad cutter 230 grain .............. 80
10 millimeter full metal jacket 180 grain .......... 50.3
10 millimeter jacketed hollow point 180 grain ..62.1
.40 S&W full metal jacket flat nose 180 grain ...... 53.4
.40 S&W jacketed hollow point 180 grain ....... 59.4
.38 Special full metal jacket 158 grain ...... 26.7
.38 Special lead wad cutter 158 grain ............. 39.7
.357 Magnum full metal jacket 158 grain ..... 32.7
.357 Magnum lead wad cutter 158 grain ............ 48.5
.357 SIG full metal jacket 147 grain ................ 36.6
.357 SIG jacketed hollow point 147 grain ..... 45.2
9 millimeter full metal jacket 147 grain ............ 32.3
9 millimeter jacketed hollow point 147 grain ... 39.9
.380 Auto jacketed hollow point 95 grain ..... 18.3
.32 Auto jacketed hollow point 71 grain ...... 11.1
.25 Auto jacketed hollow point 50 grain ...... 3.7
.22 Long Rifle jacketed hollow point 40 grain ... 4.2

Note that the 45 ACP and 44 Special are nearly ideal. A 10 mm is not bad either. 41 magnums are good but very expensive to shoot. 40s are good. 357 mags are marginal from a 3 inch barrel and expensive to shoot. .44 mags are overpowered and unwieldy plus very expensive to shoot. 38 Specials and 9 mm are wimpy. 380s ridiculously wimpy.

Grumpy

 

[AlexG]

Out of curiosity when was the last time you had to shoot someone? Ever since Nam?

 

[R1D2]

I think a sawed off shot gun would be the best way to go but there are reasons not to "carry one".
And have you ever packed a judge 45/410 in florida? One hard place to pack. And the sweat is a gun ruin. Might need to borrow about 600$ US and get a good 2 shot 45/410 bond arm gun.

 

[Grumpy]

AlexG

Out of curiosity when was the last time you had to shoot someone? Ever since Nam?

I last fired a weapon(a 50 cal)at a human in 1971. I have shot two bears, 4 or 5 wild dogs and a wild boar since then, all with a slab sided 1911 A1 Colt. Both black bears were double taps, the wild dogs were in a pack, I shot three dead and severely wounded two others, and the wild boars charged out of the brush when me and my son were walking in the woods(I always carry in the woods, I live on the edge of the Great Smokey Mountains National Park). All this before I got the Charter Arms .44 Special. I carry that now.

R1D2

I think a sawed off shot gun would be the best way to go but there are reasons not to "carry one".
And have you ever packed a judge 45/410 in florida? One hard place to pack. And the sweat is a gun ruin. Might need to borrow about 600$ US and get a good 2 shot 45/410 bond arm gun.

I have a Mossburg 500 with folding stock, flashlight and laser, no need to butcher the barrel. Keep low brass 2 3/4 inch birdshot in it for home defense(it doesn't penetrate walls and hurt someone on the other side) and 3 inch slugs for bears and boars.

Something like this...

I don't like Florida and make a point to never go there. But if you want a 45/410 the Judge is hard to beat. It has 5 shots yet fits in a pocket or a small concealed holster. I can carry the Charter Arms in a practically invisible shoulder holster that tucks in close under the arm.

Grumpy

 

[arauca]

AlexG



I last fired a weapon(a 50 cal)at a human in 1971. I have shot two bears, 4 or 5 wild dogs and a wild boar since then, all with a slab sided 1911 A1 Colt. Both black bears were double taps, the wild dogs were in a pack, I shot three dead and severely wounded two others, and the wild boars charged out of the brush when me and my son were walking in the woods(I always carry in the woods, I live on the edge of the Great Smokey Mountains National Park). All this before I got the Charter Arms .44 Special. I carry that now.

R1D2



I have a Mossburg 500 with folding stock, flashlight and laser, no need to butcher the barrel. Keep low brass 2 3/4 inch birdshot in it for home defense(it doesn't penetrate walls and hurt someone on the other side) and 3 inch slugs for bears and boars.

Something like this...

I don't like Florida and make a point to never go there. But if you want a 45/410 the Judge is hard to beat. It has 5 shots yet fits in a pocket or a small concealed holster. I can carry the Charter Arms in a practically invisible shoulder holster that tucks in close under the arm.

Grumpy

How do you feel when you kill an animal who does not attack you ? what satisfaction do you get , by taking someone life away

 

[AlexG]

How do you feel when you kill an animal who does not attack you ? what satisfaction do you get , by taking someone life away

I wouldn't call an animal 'someone', and the animals in question apparently WERE attacking.

Are you a vegetarian?

 

[Grumpy]

arauca

How do you feel when you kill an animal who does not attack you ? what satisfaction do you get , by taking someone life away

Before Vietnam I used to hunt, but afterward I didn't. Since then I have only protected myself when animals attacked me. I abhorred the killing of war, I have never received any satisfaction, only horror. I've never killed outside of combat, that was all the killing I want in my life, including animals. I know I would not hesitate to defend myself in my home with whatever force necessary, but I consider my ability to do so without hesitation a character flaw brought on by the horror of war.

Grumpy

 

[R1D2]

How do you feel when you kill an animal who does not attack you ? what satisfaction do you get , by taking someone life away

I hunt. My reason for hunting is to reduce numbers because a build up causes disease, a number of drivers hitting more deer. And genetic defects may increase. I help the animals by hunting. I hunt for those reasons and more. I help.
As for guns in general I shoot because I am allowed under law, and I will protect my family at any means if I am able, wouldn't you?

 

[R1D2]

What's a good 380acp gun to you?
Ruger
Kel-Tec
Beretta
Bersa
Other...
Just curious...

 

[R1D2]

AlexG



I last fired a weapon(a 50 cal)at a human in 1971. I have shot two bears, 4 or 5 wild dogs and a wild boar since then, all with a slab sided 1911 A1 Colt. Both black bears were double taps, the wild dogs were in a pack, I shot three dead and severely wounded two others, and the wild boars charged out of the brush when me and my son were walking in the woods(I always carry in the woods, I live on the edge of the Great Smokey Mountains National Park). All this before I got the Charter Arms .44 Special. I carry that now.

R1D2



I have a Mossburg 500 with folding stock, flashlight and laser, no need to butcher the barrel. Keep low brass 2 3/4 inch birdshot in it for home defense(it doesn't penetrate walls and hurt someone on the other side) and 3 inch slugs for bears and boars.
I don't like Florida and make a point to never go there. But if you want a 45/410 the Judge is hard to beat. It has 5 shots yet fits in a pocket or a small concealed holster. I can carry the Charter Arms in a practically invisible shoulder holster that tucks in close under the arm.

Grumpy

Hey Grumpy thanks for your time in service.
Also have you shot or heard about the Circuit Judge? Supposed to be great for home defense...

 

[AlexG]

I like my Beretta, very well made.

 

[Stoniphi]

Me too with mine.

...I wouldn't call an animal 'someone'...

I would, but then, I am a Buddhist. When another person attacks my canine companion family member I respond the same as if it were my wife or my son. Regarding other animals as somehow 'less' than we humans is arrogant to say the least and very short - sighted as well.

 

[Grumpy]

R1D2

Also have you shot or heard about the Circuit Judge? Supposed to be great for home defense...

I've only seen photos. The .410 shotgun would be alright for home defense with 00 or slugs if you treat it as a rifle. The Circuit Judge would be good for carry in the woods, I guess(nothing smaller than 4 shot, except for snakes). But if I bought one of them I would want a rifled slug barrel and would only shoot 00, slugs or .45 Long Colt in it. I wish they still had Dan Wessons on sale, it was a pistol frame with interchangeable barrels and stocks/grips. One gun could have 2 1/2, 4, 6, 7 1/2, 12, 18 and 21 inch barrels, with pistol grip to full stocks and forearms. In .44 magnum you had a truly universal tool, but in .45 LC you could shoot .410 and have a smooth barrel. Very good guns with superb accuracy and versatility.

Don't get the wrong idea, I'm not a gun nut. I do enjoy shooting, but I have trouble justifying killing a spider unnecessarily. But where I live the gun averse pacifist is likely to be eliminated from the gene pool. Be it nature(bears, wild pigs, snakes)or man, living far from civilization(relatively)has it's hazards and a wise man prepares for the worst but expects and hopes for the best(until evidence to the contrary arises).

Grumpy

 

[R1D2]

where did everyone go....????....
For self defence what do you think is a good Weapon?
And
What weapon Day or night that you would believe is used around the "homestead"?

 

[Stoniphi]

Self defense starts with open eyes and ears, being in the moment and awake, not assuming that everyone is nice.

The best weapon is a strong body and mind, a clear conscience, always being aware of your surroundings and maintaining a low profile so as not to appear a target (mark). My dog sleeps next to me at night. She will sound the alarm if anything is amiss, though a burglar would have to wait until my son went to bed and that is pretty late....I get up soon after he hits the hay.

Thus far the weapon I have pulled most often is that Sabre pepper spray. The sheriff that lives next door tells me that pepper spray is indeed the most effective weapon in either of our arsenals.