“The Hidden Evolution”

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by bpathos, Mar 19, 2011.

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  1. wellwisher Banned Banned

    This is for the pretent experts, who can't contribute, except as a parasite. I will explain it so even you can understand. Hold the yucky comment until you read the entire thing, OK.

    We will set two experiments. The first will have a beaker of water with a partitian. On each side of the partitian will different cations. K+ in the left and Na+ on the right.

    The second beaker will have a uniform solution of the same cations.

    Since the entropy of the universe is increasing, the two choice are;

    1. the partitioned cations will form a uniform solution.
    2. the uniform solution will partition.

    The steady beakers will tell us higher entropy. The uniform solution will be at higher entropy and the segregation is low entropy.

    If you studied entropy, you must have slept that day.
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  3. wellwisher Banned Banned

    I never said the cell was a closed system. I said you need to look at cause and effect. Interaction with the environment, for food in and CO2 out, is made possible because of the potential within the membrane. If we shut that off, the system will become closer to closed.

    As far as degree of freedom and standard definition like waste heat or information, obviously using the current terms of entropy has made it difficult to grasp what should be obvious. So much for that.

    Degree of freedom is easier to apply and leads to the same and correct results. In the segrated cations example, there is less freedom within the partition than in the uniform solution. Entropy will seek more freedom/options/information.
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2011
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  5. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Please lay out your work on this for us.
    I currently absolutely disbelieve the claims you have made regarding this and fail to see how they hold up.
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  7. river-wind Valued Senior Member

    OP: see Richard Dawkin's concept of a Meme; there seems to be some overlap with your suggestion.

    Ok, a good high-school level understanding of physics, chemistry and cellular biology.

    Somewhere between the above pumping mechanisms and here, you skipped over about 300 tons of information which is needed to reach this conclusion. Your argument is not much different than "Life as we know it uses carbon as one of its basic building blocks. With four free electrons for bonding, it can make all kinds of chemical structures which are very useful in metabolism. Therefor aliens exist and use silicon as their basis."

    There's a squid-shaped elephant in your post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CW_fc7A06E

    no it doesn't. at its most basic evolution means 'The change in alele frequencies in a population over time". There is no pre-defined movement in a particular direction, and increased size is not guaranteed. The word can be applied to various other processes colloquially (as the OP has potentially successfully done), but as an unqualified term, the dictionary definition is not what you have described.

    To about half the people in this thread: everyone has the right to define terms as they wish and to think about concepts freely. But entropy and evolution have very specific definitions agreed upon for the purposes of effective communication between people. Calling you out for re-defining terms or refusing to education yourself formally isn't elitism, its demanding that you don't waste everyone's time by proposing ideas which were disproven 600 years ago. Education isn't indoctrination, its bringing everyone to a baseline of knowledge so that we can actually progress in our understanding of the world; why are you so desperate to reinvent the wheel?
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011
  8. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

    soo the nanosecond the sperm hits the egg we are multi celled organizms multi as in more than 2
  9. river-wind Valued Senior Member

    I vote neither, given the experimental setup.

    Unless by 'partition' for beaker 1, you mean 'semi-permiable membrane', or you forgot the step where the partition is removed.

    *If* you meant to say that you have two aqueous solutions of potassium and sodium initially separated, what happens when the two are no longer separated (without direct mixing or agitation), then I would answer as:

    1) Ignoring chemical reactions, the ions would randomly bounce about, eventually creating a uniform solution with the lowest energy state (however this doesn't say anything about life or consciousness). I think this is the answer you're looking for, though it's overly simplified.
    2) The Na+ and K+ ions in water will not remain Na+ or K+ ions, instead they will likely create NaOH(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NaOH) and KOH(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_hydroxide) in solution, and slightly acidify the solutions in the process prior to mixing (actual molarity of the two solutions would be needed to make further determinations of what would occur chemically from that point). What effect does this effect your expected conclusions?
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