Are you not missing something like "Something something microtubules"? Or is this particular wheel reduced to just this thread?
The necessary truth of mathematics (?)
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DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
THis is true. I don't tink anyone diagrees with this - except Write4U.
How does that follow?
There are vast areas of mathematics that have no correlation whatsoever with anything physical.
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Thinkers do not include themselves in their mathematics.
There are whole disciplines of mathemtics that explore n-dimensional matrices - 4D, 5D, 10D, 100D, etc. that have no counterpart in the physical world.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
By changing your "anthropomorphic conceptualization" to "RW function"
In mathematics, a function assigns each element of the domain set to exactly one element of the codomain set1. The domain set is called the domain, and the codomain set is called the codomain1. Functions are used to model relationships between quantities1.
Not relationships between "physical properties", because that would be "causal chemistry".
How the Venus Flytrap Counts
10/05/2020
If a prey touches a sensory hair on the inside of the Dionaea trap, an action potential is triggered. This electrical information is then translated into a chemical calcium wave. However, the critical calcium concentration that initiates the trap closure is only exceeded when two action potentials are triggered in quick succession. (Image: Sönke Scherzer / Universität Würzburg)
Apparently you missed this worldwide attention in science and media.
How the Venus Flytrap Counts
The carnivorous Venus flytrap snaps shut when a prey touches it twice within 30 seconds. In the journal Nature Plants researchers report on how this plant's short-term memory and counting system works.
www.uni-wuerzburg.de
Short term cellular memory even. Does that translate in being able to count time of duration?
And how would you rebut this argument that the Venus Flytrap can count a number via exceeding a biochemical threshold value, but not "know" it?
That is very similar to how "quorum sensing" is a primitive form of counting without knowing the value of numbers, but reacting to the threshold value of a density ratio.
As long as you keep misinterpreting my arguments (supported by bona fide scientific narratives), how can I backpeddle?
Seems to me that you should be backpeddling your ad hominems that always accompany your disagreements. I am not a liar.
I never hear you say that I am deliberately misrepresenting the quoted materials. That would lying.
Nor do I hear you say that my sources are liars. But you just like to accuse them of commercialism. I can see a direct Implication.
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Write4U:
You quoted me as asking "How could a concept possibly control a physical system?". Then you went on to post something that does not address the question I asked at all. Why?
I will respond to what you wrote, even though it is irrelevant.
Also, the Venus flytrap doesn't seem to have a brain, so it isn't "aware" that it "counting". What you are calling "counting" in this context appears to be an evolved behaviour of the flytrap plant in which electrical signals are processes in a certain way.
It seems like quite a stretch to refer to this as "counting".
You quoted me as asking "How could a concept possibly control a physical system?". Then you went on to post something that does not address the question I asked at all. Why?
I will respond to what you wrote, even though it is irrelevant.
Apparently. Do you keep up with every item of news?
No. Counting has very little to do with memory.
Also, the Venus flytrap doesn't seem to have a brain, so it isn't "aware" that it "counting". What you are calling "counting" in this context appears to be an evolved behaviour of the flytrap plant in which electrical signals are processes in a certain way.
It seems like quite a stretch to refer to this as "counting".
The flytrap doesn't have a brain. How could it possibly "know" anything, in the way that we humans use the word "know" to describe a thinking process?
An autonomic response, mediated by chemical and electrical signals. No brain involved.
What arguments?
Not deliberately misrepresenting them does not imply that you are accurately representing them, or that they show what you think they show.
Your sources are usually irrelevant to whatever it is that I am trying to discuss with you. You quote sources as if they support your views, but they rarely have any relevance to your claims, let along support them.
Who is "them"?
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
No. You get induction periods in chemical kinetics too. Nothing is doing any "counting".
Yet they should . That would help them understand that not anything is possible .
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Do you feel you are in a position to be telling mathematicians what they should be researching?
I'm saying that some things are not possible . While it maybe fun . All these dimensions are not possible .
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
What do you know about mathematics?
DaveC426913
Valued Senior Member
Exactly. As previously stated, some aspects of mathematics have no counterpart in the physical world. You seemed to think all mathematics was necessarily built on the physical world. It's not.
I already knew this .
The bending of space . Space can only bend with mathematics . In reality space can not bend , physically .
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
Reported for being a brainless profoundly stupid troll.
How does space bend ? What is the process ? What process actually bends space physically ?
Pinball1970
Valued Senior Member
Fuck off. Idiot. Reported and blocked.
Please post on topic.
How does space bend ? What is the process ? What process actually bends space physically ?
So you can't answer my question it seems . Its a reasonable question .
Lots of people think that they can do anything with space . Contort it into any thing they they want . And shape it . That mass can bend space , it can't .
Space can exist on its own without mass . Space does not need mass , the physical , to exist , in order for space to exist , Space is independent from the physical . And detached .
Space is three dimensional all on its own . Space is about room . The room needed for anything to exist .
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Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Well, a spirited conversation, wouldn't you know.
from stored coded information (memory). All it needs is actionable detection of a fixed actionable quantity, such as quorum sensing.
Note that quantum does not begin with a physical property such as muon. It begins with a probabilistic mathematical value and behavior before it can be even be identified physically.
No it does not. Natural selection is the most subtle of mathematical function. It is a passive pattern forming that depends on
Now you are anthropomorhizing again. It doesnot need to know. All it needs to react to the "been here" sign that was deposited the frst time the slime mold passed this dead end. It simply avoids this route because the slime molds recognizes its own sign and reacts to its message.
It's called subtraction.
It doesn't need to understand it. All it needs is "stimulation and"reaction", also known as "detection and a comparative" form of cognition"
from stored coded information (memory). All it needs is actionable detection of a fixed actionable quantity, such as quorum sensing.
But nobody says that detection needs to be a conscious act. All it needs is a specific reaction based on the physical type and mathematical value of the stimulant.
In mathematical terms, density is mass divided by volume.
Yes, it is! Here is your map.
But now you claim that it's not really a mathematical object, right? It's just a generality. Do you see your hypocrisy in this denial?
Just as we can assign physical properties to mathematical objects or systems. Where exactly does physics begin?
Note that quantum does not begin with a physical property such as muon. It begins with a probabilistic mathematical value and behavior before it can be even be identified physically.
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Write4U
Valued Senior Member
Yes, they communicate via a mathematical term "quorum sensing", a system that counts for a treshold quantity, a "quorum".
A quorum is not a physical object. It is a numerical (countable) object.
Yes, countable numbers that trigger a simultaneous action potential that is physically "causal" to the procuction of action potentials, such as virulence.
What do you call "equity", maths or physics?
Which I see as a mathematical processing of variable mathematical values in accordance with logical principles which are invariable in and of themselves (Fibonacci Sequence)
Yes,
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Is terminal speed causal to a rock falling? No, it is not causal to falling. It does control how fast the physical rock is allowed to fall, dependent on the environmental conditions.
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