Presidential predictions for 2024?

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I think Vance might be comparable to Dan Quayle. He was kind of creepy, not memorable in any way and just largely ignored.
Oh yes, I remember him: the “Potatoe Kid”, lost in space. :biggrin:

But I’m not sure Vance is equally irrelevant. He has said some very odd, but specific, things, and he is closely connected to Project 2025 which is turning into a major line of attack for the Democrats. In fact, with Trump being such a rambling buffoon, it is far easier to get to grips with what Vance appears to stand for than Trump himself, who seems only to stand for, well, er, Donald Trump. I’m noticing the Dems seem now to attack what they contend “Republicans” believe, rather than Trump specifically. Vance provides them the tangible evidence to justify broadening the criticism to a whole movement, rather than just the presidential candidate.

But I am just an ill-informed bystander on the other side of the Atlantic, so I may be misreading the situation.
 
From an overseas perspective, Dan Quayle is remembered for some wonderful gaffs while speaking, although they now seem mundane compared to Trump's...

...

A lot of these gaffes almost seem too well-crafted to be accidental. I think Quayle just possesses a curious sort of genius.

Also, these are all from his VP era--there's gotta be an abundance of gems from the subsequent 30+ years. I'll wait with bated breath while someone tracks those down.
 
Has he done anything since he was VP???

FWIW - I've also subsequently discovered that a couple of the quotes I quoted above are not quotes that he himself quoted, although he was quoted by others as having quoted them. ;)
- The one about Latin was apparently from MAD magazine article about quotes they were expecting to hear.
- The one about impurities was from someone telling a joke about Quayle.
 
Has he done anything since he was VP???

FWIW - I've also subsequently discovered that a couple of the quotes I quoted above are not quotes that he himself quoted, although he was quoted by others as having quoted them. ;)
- The one about Latin was apparently from MAD magazine article about quotes they were expecting to hear.
- The one about impurities was from someone telling a joke about Quayle.
I don't think he did a lot of quoting did he? I think he said them and others have now quoted him (or made some up as you suggest).
 
I like Tim Walz's manner of speaking. If I had to guess, I'd say there's elements of "football coach" (based upon my viewing of Friday Night Lights) to his style, but it's got teeth--I liked his remarks about what some regard as socialism, others see as just being neighborly, and about Trump getting his ass kicked by a Black woman. I think he's what the pundits might describe as a "straight shooter".

The eloquent and erudite orator type is off putting to a lot of Americans, apparently, which we learned from Obama, but I think Walz's straightforward style is the next best thing. He's probably about as close as we're gonna get to a John Cooper Clarke or Sleaford Mods style in American politics.


"Elocution"

I'm no good with elocution
To get myself into the institution
So I can win some donkey straw
Get a frame and put it on my fuckin' wall

I wish I had the time
To be a wanker just like you
And maybe then, I'd be somewhere lovely and warm
Just like you
 
You can be "progressive" in certain policies without lecturing about "intersectionality", "micro-aggression" and without policies like "defund the police" or "tax the rich".

Most people are for common sense policies. Sometimes those are progressive issues and sometimes it's being fiscally conservative. The common thread is common sense.

Most people also appreciate compromise and friendly discussion which has been missing for a long time.
 
Most people are for common sense policies. Sometimes those are progressive issues and sometimes it's being fiscally conservative. The common thread is common sense.
Common sense seems like a vague concept that people slap on to their areas of limited knowledge and bias. I often see it displayed without much basis in empirical knowledge or awareness that the people one is talking with have their own definition of common sense that differs from yours.


You can be "progressive" in certain policies without lecturing about "intersectionality", "micro-aggression" and without policies like "defund the police" or "tax the rich".
So taxing the rich is not a good policy and we shouldn't advocate for policies that ask them to pay their share for government services? And when someone asks my friend Pradeep "where are you from?" and Pradeep replies, "Kansas City," and then they say, "But where are you REALLY from?" and then someone explains how that might be offensive (which it is) they are just being a nuisance lecturing on micro-aggression and should shut up and stick to your parameters of "common sense"? Just seeking to clarify what it's okay to be progressive about, so I don't stray from common sense and cause conservatives to roll up into a fetal ball.
 
Just seeking to clarify what it's okay to be progressive about, so I don't stray from common sense and cause conservatives to roll up into a fetal ball.
Just don't rack up any debt for any purpose other than increasing production (doesn't matter what you produce, just so there's more of it) and shareholder profits. And don't let any plebes off their contractual obligation to make the rich richer.
 
Common sense seems like a vague concept that people slap on to their areas of limited knowledge and bias. I often see it displayed without much basis in empirical knowledge or awareness that the people one is talking with have their own definition of common sense that differs from yours.



So taxing the rich is not a good policy and we shouldn't advocate for policies that ask them to pay their share for government services? And when someone asks my friend Pradeep "where are you from?" and Pradeep replies, "Kansas City," and then they say, "But where are you REALLY from?" and then someone explains how that might be offensive (which it is) they are just being a nuisance lecturing on micro-aggression and should shut up and stick to your parameters of "common sense"? Just seeking to clarify what it's okay to be progressive about, so I don't stray from common sense and cause conservatives to roll up into a fetal ball.
Well up to a point. I do think, actually, that some of the expert-sounding labelling that goes on is counterproductive. Your “ micro-aggression” example is a case in point. Who the fuck knows, on the proverbial Clapham omnibus, what micro-aggression is? “Cultural appropriation” is another one. There can be a tendency to lay a sort of minefield for ordinary people, with normal areas of ignorance and no ill intention, to stumble into and blow themselves up.

Asking where you “are really from” is not usually an act of aggression. All it is is a clumsy and thoughtless assumption that a person is a 1st generation immigrant, when they may well not be. Or it may be an expression of the innocent and reasonable idea that people have ancestry they take pride in. ( I was born in Scotland , my father was born in China and my mother in India, but I’m “really” English.) Misclassifying innocence, or clumsiness and ignorance as “aggression” will be resented by the people accused of it.

Ditto “cultural appropriation”: we all, I hope, learn and copy from cultures other than our own all the time. The implication that we should each stick to our own cultural silo (and who, pray, decides which one we are deemed to belong to?) strikes me as atrocious. Am I supposed to seek permission from the Indian High Commission before buying a Nehru jacket?

More generally the tendency to lecture everyone at every turn on how they, or their ancestors, have fallen short morally is bound to get their goat eventually. That’s what makes them vote Trump, or Farage. People who consider themselves “progressive” or, in US-speak “liberal”, need to avoid the temptation of moralising or using pejorative language. None of us is perfect, after all, and we all have our blind spots.

Walz by the way would never use such terms, I am sure, and that’s to his credit.
 
Asking where you “are really from” is not usually an act of aggression.
It is, if you've already told them. They're effectively calling you a liar. Maybe some people wouldn't take that seriously, but if you're a slightly different colour and have been challenged in the same way a dozen time before, it gets pretty annoying.

Ditto “cultural appropriation”: we all, I hope, learn and copy from cultures other than our own all the time.
Yes, and it's okay to speak for cultures, or in their dialect, in certain conditions. It's not okay for a settler to tell a Native American what his attitudes should be.
People who consider themselves “progressive” or, in US-speak “liberal”, need to avoid the temptation of moralising or using pejorative language.
Even if the words actually apply? When you've been called evil, liar, crooked and antichrist enough times, you might be forgiven for mentioning the opposition's shortcomings.
 
Just a curiosity:
Are any of you guys betting on the outcome of this presidential election?
Or on the number of electoral college delegates for either candidate?
 
Just a curiosity:
Are any of you guys betting on the outcome of this presidential election?
Or on the number of electoral college delegates for either candidate?
Not me! I stopped gambling a very long time ago. Just sitting way up here in the cheap seats, watching the arena.
 
It is, if you've already told them. They're effectively calling you a liar. Maybe some people wouldn't take that seriously, but if you're a slightly different colour and have been challenged in the same way a dozen time before, it gets pretty annoying.


Yes, and it's okay to speak for cultures, or in their dialect, in certain conditions. It's not okay for a settler to tell a Native American what his attitudes should be.

Even if the words actually apply? When you've been called evil, liar, crooked and antichrist enough times, you might be forgiven for mentioning the opposition's shortcomings.
I used to get asked where I was from all the time when I lived for 2 years in Houston, because of my accent. I did get a bit bored by it, but I never thought for a moment it was "aggression". If you tell someone where you are from and they ask where you are really from I would assume they mean where does my family come from originally, so I would explain. It's a fair question to ask in a country of immigrants like the USA, and quite relevant for someone of S Asian descent. It might give you a clue to their religion for a start, which is something to take into account.

I do agree though that if, in the USA, someone were to ask a black person where they are really from, that would certainly be weird and potentially offensive, given the obvious history of slavery.
 
used to get asked where I was from all the time when I lived for 2 years in Houston, because of my accent. I did get a bit bored by it, but I never thought for a moment it was "aggression".
It's not. If they follow up with the "really", you can interpret it as a 'roots' question - like it was any of their business. But that would usually be phrased, "Yeah? And where are your people from originally?" (A stranger on casual first encounter has no right to anything past the initial "Where are you from?" )
As to having a clue to your religion taken into consideration, I certainly take exception to that, unless it comes from the pastor of a church I'm attending.
 
Common sense seems like a vague concept that people slap on to their areas of limited knowledge and bias. I often see it displayed without much basis in empirical knowledge or awareness that the people one is talking with have their own definition of common sense that differs from yours.



So taxing the rich is not a good policy and we shouldn't advocate for policies that ask them to pay their share for government services? And when someone asks my friend Pradeep "where are you from?" and Pradeep replies, "Kansas City," and then they say, "But where are you REALLY from?" and then someone explains how that might be offensive (which it is) they are just being a nuisance lecturing on micro-aggression and should shut up and stick to your parameters of "common sense"? Just seeking to clarify what it's okay to be progressive about, so I don't stray from common sense and cause conservatives to roll up into a fetal ball.
OK, you're against common sense?

The wealthy do pay their share is my point.

Looking for a slight isn't helpful. If someone asks "where are you really from" that's just an awkwardly formed question when they mean something like "where does your family originally come from". Sure it can also get old but so does "what do you do" or any other probing question especially if you don't know them well but I wouldn't call it "micro-aggression".

Just to add, of course "common sense" isn't some standard that everyone agrees with that it means but it's a good general place to start.

If you were a politician would you start off by talking about "childless cat ladies" or "free school lunches"? Common sense might tell one that talking about free school lunches is the better approach.
 
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