Intelligent earth lights

[exchemist]

"The earliest published references to strange lights there are from around 1910, at about the same time electric lighting was becoming widespread in the area."
Ah, that would explain why witnesses felt they were unusual enough to be worth reporting.

"In 1922, a USGS scientist, George R. Mansfield, used a map and an alidade telescope to prove that the lights that were being seen were trains, car headlights, and brush fires, which ended widespread public concern."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Mountain_lights

He seems to have done a pretty comprehensive analysis, documented in this report:
https://web.archive.org/web/20191226144559/https://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/1971/0646/report.pdf

The Wiki article also goes into the way the lights have been attributed to different supposed origins, according to changing cultural fads and expectations, and the way in which some stores were fabricated to sustain or improve the myth. So there is quite a lot here abut human motivation and deception.

 

[Magical Realist]

Uh no. The lights in the video are clearly neither car lights nor train lights nor brush fires. They are occurring on the rock face of the mountain. And the lights are often witnessed suspended high in the air above rivers and cliffs or any distant lights.

More videos:

Mystery of the Brown Mountain Lights fueled by new pictures

For more than a hundred years people have reported seeing strange lights above the hillsides. An overlook along highway 181 has been a popular viewing spot.

www.wbtv.com

 

[gmilam]

Been to Marfa many times. It's a nice stop on the way to Big Bend. Never have seen the lights. Don't know anyone who has. And yes, I did look for them.

 

[DaveC426913]

Uh no.

Take it up with the USGS Surveyor who didn't merely talk the talk but actually walked the walk.

And is a witness.

It's only 26 pages of analysis.

 

[Magical Realist]

I trust the videos and eyewitnesses more than I trust a self-touting USGS debunker.

 

[DaveC426913]

I trust the videos and eyewitnesses more than I trust a USGS debunker.

We are all well aware of that, and your complete lack of shame in admitting it.

 

[Magical Realist]

We are all well aware of that, and your complete lack of shame in admitting it.

View attachment 5998

Neither evolution nor science has explained the phenomenon yet.

 

[C C]

Appalachian State University is several kilometers away from Morganton. But no surprise that it's apparently in the marketing and tourist interests of the latter community to have researchers maintaining an interest in the Brown Mountains.

University page: The Brown Mountain Lights

They were still doing it in 2022 (Dr. Dan Caton interviewed in the second video): Fascination with NC's mysterious Brown Mountain Lights spans decades

(2016) ASU scientists think they've captured images of WNC's unexplained Brown Mountain Lights

ASU scientists think they've captured images of WNC's unexplained Brown Mountain Lights

MORGANTON, N.C. – Scientists from Appalachian State University believe they have captured images of the elusive Brown Mountain Lights.Regular sightings of the mysterious lights seen hovering above Brown Mountain date back more than a century. But as often

wlos.com

EXCERPTS: The cameras are operated by Daniel Caton and his colleague Lee Hawkins, of the physics and astronomy department at Appalachian State University. [...] This is the first time we’ve had a dual detection," (the phenomena on both cameras), he said. "It was something out there. It came on and went back off virtually instantly four times over several minutes,” Caton explained. “We’ve eliminated all the things that are likely man-made natural sources, so we’re left with no real explanation other than it’s whatever the lights might actually be.”

VIDEO LINK: Brown Mountain Lights Camera 1A July 16-17, 2016

_

 

[DaveC426913]

Neither evolution nor science has explained the phenomenon yet.

You didn't read the report. That is a certain sign that you prefer your fantasies to actually learning anything.

Which is certainly your right.

 

[Magical Realist]

exchemist: The Wiki article also goes into the way the lights have been attributed to different supposed origins, according to changing cultural fads and expectations, and the way in which some stores were fabricated to sustain or improve the myth. So there is quite a lot here abut human motivation and deception.

Yeah....that's the common debunker's tactic of playing up the myths and legends surrounding the phenomenon in order to make it look all superstitious and foolish. I couldn't resist reading over Skeptical Inquirer's Joe Nickell's "investigation", which consisted of basically a picnic there and just two nights of watching for them. He spends alot of the article detailing cultural interpretations of the phenomenon as paranormal ghost lights and later ufos, and after recording many accounts of people he saw there of them being multi-colored and splitting apart and of being separate from the city and cars lights in the distance, he concludes they are precisely that-- a collection of misperceptions ranging from refracted distant lights, cars, airplanes, campfires and even ball lightning. In other words, nothing to see here folks, despite clear videos and persistent and credible eyewitness accounts to the contrary. As always, skeptics find nothing more than what they are already looking for.

The Brown Mountain Lights: Solved! (Again!) | Skeptical Inquirer

As with UFOs, some lights will remain unidentified—not because they are inherently mysterious but because they are just eyewitness reports or snapshots with ...

skepticalinquirer.org

 

[DaveC426913]

... a self-touting USGS debunker.

What even makes you think he's a debunker?

Are you saying that anyone who attempts to find answers and doesn't find the answer you want is automatically a debunker?

What ever happened to "I have no reason to think a stranger is a liar by default - and anyone who assumes a stranger is a liar without good reason is psychotic"?

Do you know he's an eyewitness, right? Whatever happened to "I believe the testimonies of eyewitnesses; they have no reason to lie." Or does that only apply when it works in your favour?

 

[Magical Realist]

Are you saying that anyone who attempts to find answers and doesn't find the answer you want is automatically a debunker

He came there to solve the famous Brown Mountain lights. That was his agenda--to debunk them once and for all. And lo and behold that's what he found--mere car and train lights and brush fires. The account of many others since 1922 totally refute those prosaic explanations. A mere viewing of the videos I and CC posted would prove that. Have you not viewed those?

 

[DaveC426913]

That was his agenda--to debunk them once and for all.

No it wasn't. It wasn't even his choice.

You speak from wilful, lazy ignorance.



For those who don't want to be wifully ignorant, some really good stuff in there:

"In October 1913 at the urgent request of Representative E. Y. Webb, of North Carolina, a member of the U.S. Geological Survey, D. B. Sterrett, was sent to Brown Mountain to observe these lights and to determine their origin. "

"Senators Simmons and Overman prevailed upon the Geological Survey to make a second and more thorough investigation of these puzzling lights. The present writer, to whom the task of making this investigation was assigned..."

In fact there were multiple investigations. And the lights were seen many times, each incident carefully logged.

The report goes into not only the surveying method, but a very detailed account of the lights, their locations and times, and excellent correlation with trains running on local tracks at those locations at those times, verified by train schedules and further confirmed when the trians arrived at their stations at the designated times.

"Of the 23 lights noted by instrumental observation and recorded on lines 1 to 21, seven proved to originate from locomotive headlights..."

In goes on for 26 pages...

"About 47 percent of the lights that the writer was able to study instrumentally were due to automobile headlights, 33 percent to locomotive headlights, 10 percent to stationary lights, and 10 percent to brush fires."

 

[Magical Realist]

Yes...I know he was assigned to debunk them. "To determine their origin." No "we don't know" about it. That's why he was so determined to do it. And that's why for all those who merely skim over the phenomenon without going into it deeply this becomes an adequate explanation. Educate yourself for once about a topic before jumping on the skeptic bandwagon. It would only benefit your credibility as a seeker of truth if that is even a concern of yours.

The Brown Mountain Lights

www.brownmountainlights.com

 

[DaveC426913]

I trust the videos and eyewitnesses..

Good because they are all multiple eyewitnesses.

And no need to "trust" them. Science doesn't work on trust. Science works on analysis, documentation and transparency.

Yes...I know he was assigned to debunk them. "To determine their origin." No "we don't know" about it. That's why he was so determined to do it. And that's why for all those who merely skim over the phenomenon without going into it deeply this becomes an adequate explanation. Educate yourself for once about a topic before jumping on the skeptic bandwagon. It would only benefit your credibility as a real seeker of truth.

When did you get the power of telepathy? This is all merely your uninformed opinion. Just your own personal biases about a complete stranger you know nothing about (and one of the reasons why you won't read the report). Nobody cares what your opinion is. You run from anything that looks like it might inform you.

You weren't there. They were. They witnessed them. And they are professionals. And in your own book, that trumps wishful thinking.


Yeah, we're done here.

Next.

 

[Magical Realist]

This is all merely your uninformed opinion

LOL Let it go on record here that you won't even look at the videos of the lights. So you're in no position at all to make any derogatory claims about my knowledge of this topic.

 

[DaveC426913]

LOL

Carfeul, your emotions are showing.

Let it go on record here that you won't even look at the videos of the lights. So you're in no position at all to make any derogatory claims about my knowledge of this topic.

I have looked at them. Now, go do some reading, troll.

 

[Magical Realist]

Here's some reading for you:

"Among the scientific investigations which have undertaken from time to time to explain the lights have been two conducted by the U.S. Geological Survey. The first was made in 1913 when the conclusion was reached that the lights were locomotive headlights from the Catawba Valley south of Brown Mountain. However, three years later in 1916 a great flood that swept through the Catawba Valley knocked out the railroad bridges. It was weeks before the right-of-way could be repaired and the locomotives could once again enter the valley. Roads were also washed out and power lines were down. But the lights continued to appear as usual. It became apparent that the lights could not be reflections from locomotive or automobile headlights. The Guide to the Old North State, prepared by the W.P.A. in the 1930s, states that the Brown Mountain Lights have "puzzled scientists for fifty years." ---- https://www.astronomycafe.net/weird/lights/brown1.htm

 

[DaveC426913]

But the lights continued to appear as usual.

Says who? Is there a report of that? Is there even a mention of a witness account for that period? Anything?

How many times do they continue? Once? Zero? Did he not think that was relevant.
How many bridges and roads were out? How does he know this? Did he not think it was relevant?

How is is this anything more than hand-waving, content-free hear-say, by a bunker with an agenda and an internet connection? That kind of ad hom swings both ways.


But neither of us are telepaths, so let's stick to the facts. On one side, we have:
• a 26-page exhaustively detailed report,
• requested by several goverment officials,
• who tasked several independent government geological surveyors,
• whose job it is to survey and locate landmarks over long distances and terrain,
• in several independent investigations,
• over several years,
• who are also eyewitnesses of many, many Brown Mountain incidents,
• and identified conclusively the sources of most of them with math, geometry and expertise.

And on the other side, we have:
• an article,
• by a third-party author of unknown provenance and agenda,
• who editiorializes that "lights continued to appear",
• without a single reference, anecdote, report, quote or anything.

Hmm.

No need to answer. You already have, many times. The number of times you have employed every one of these checkboxes:
• eyewitness: check,
• official government org: check
• experts in their field: check
• no personal agenda: check
• no reason to lie: check
• multiple independent witnesses: check
• multiple sightings: check
to try to support your own pet beliefs is too huge to enumerate here. You can't have it both ways.

But don't stop! This is all counter-example fodder for my book on Critical Analysis and How to Not Get Trapped by Personal Beliefs and Ignorance.

 

[Magical Realist]

Says who? Is there a report of that? Is there even a mention of a witness account for that period? Anything?

LOL From your own USGS surveyor's paper. And we certainly can't doubt anything HE says can we?

"In October 1913 at the urgent request of Representative E. Y. Webb, of North Carolina, a member of the U.S. Geological Survey, D. B. Sterrett, was sent to Brown Mountain to observe these lights and to determine their origin. After a few days investigation Mr. Sterrett declared that the lights were nothing but locomotive headlights seen over the mountain from the neighboring heights. This explanation was too simple and prosaic to please anyone who was looking for some supernatural or unusual cause of the lights, and when they were seen after the great flood of 1916, while no trains were running in the vicinity, even some of those who had accepted Mr.Sterrett's explanation felt compelled to abandon it."

Here's another source for this information:

"It is remembered for its deadly fury, but the Flood of 1916 – one of the state’s greatest calamities – also played an odd role in the mystery of the Brown Mountain Lights. A U.S. Geological Survey reported in 1913 that the lights were a combination of auto and locomotive headlights and other optical phenomenon activated by peculiar air currents. TOP VIDEOS Then remnants of two Category 4 hurricanes – one from the Atlantic, another from the Gulf – hit the Blue Ridge in succession a century ago this month, unleashing the biggest flood in historic times along the Catawba Basin. When it was over, more than 50 people were dead, bridges were ripped from their pilings and modern conveniences like electricity, telegraph, roadways and railroads had to be rebuilt. But the Brown Mountain Lights kept chugging along. People in the mountains continued to report periodic sightings of the phenomenon in the vast de-electrification caused by the flood. So the flood had claimed another victim – the official theory of what caused the ghostly lights, which have been observed flickering for more than a century on Brown Mountain, a rugged lump in the wrinkles of the Blue Ridge between Morganton and Linville."

Read more at: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article88661217.html#storylink=cpy