Event Horizon - the other side

[ThazzarBaal]

Ok, so I guess we don't know what's beyond black holes, but I like to fantasize and speculate - theories be damned

It's a portal, and a near instant rebirth, complete with new world, new sun, and everything needed for new life to begin yet another evolutionary journey.

How about you? What do you like to think?

 

[DaveC426913]

How about you? What do you like to think?

I like to think that this is the Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology forum, where science and evidence are discussed, and that fanciful ideas about afterlife and rebirth are put in more appropriate forums.

 

[ThazzarBaal]

I like to think that this is the Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology forum, where science and evidence are discussed, and that fanciful ideas about afterlife and rebirth are put in more appropriate forums.

Umm yeah ... But black holes exist center galaxy and we have a destined fate to enter therin, so I like to think there's something that has a thing to do with life on the other side, but hey ... You may be correct in the other placement suggestion. Ask an admin. I don't mind.

 

[DaveC426913]

Umm yeah ... But black holes exist center galaxy

True, there is a supermassive one at the centre of our galaxy. But black holes are found all over the galaxy. The nearest we know of is about 1500 light years way though it's only about 10 stellar masses.

and we have a destined fate to enter therin,

No we are not. Black holes are not some magic vacuum, sucking everything in from afar, as pop science would have one think. We aren't falling toward it, and it's not sucking us in, now or in the future.

The 10 solar mass black hole I mention above is nothing more scary than a 10 solar mass star. 10 solar masses is 10 solar masses. The only thing that makes black holes special is that you can get a lot closer to them.

so I like to think there's something that has a thing to do with life on the other side,

If you're interested in facts about black holes, this is the place. But if you're interested in beliefs about afterlife, 'twould better to be moved to either Religion or Free Thoughts.

 

[ThazzarBaal]

I like to think that this is the Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology forum, where science and evidence are discussed, and that fanciful ideas about afterlife and rebirth are put in more appropriate forums.

Science and evidence being a prerequisite here, then personal hopes be damned. The evidence and data acquired thus far concerning black holes and possible exists after entry suggest what? I haven't read any science journals able to adequately theorize, aside from borrowing from the premise that there's life in the universe and our own evolutionary journey here. I guess I just presume the same principles and physics apply beyond black holes.

 

[ThazzarBaal]

True, there is a supermassive one at the centre of our galaxy. But black holes are found all over the galaxy. The nearest we know of is about 1500 light years way though it's only about 10 stellar masses.


No we are not. Black holes are not some magic vacuum, sucking everything in from afar, as pop science would have one think. We aren't falling toward it, and it's not sucking us in, now or in the future.

The 10 solar mass black hole I mention above is nothing more scary than a 10 solar mass star. 10 solar masses is 10 solar masses. The only thing that makes black holes special is that you can get a lot closer to them.



If you're interested in facts about black holes, this is the place. But if you're interested in beliefs about afterlife, 'twould better to be moved to either Religion or Free Thoughts.

I've read different. From what I've gathered, the sun will red giant, we'll be subject to the effects of, and the big black hole centered in the milky way galaxy will one day, far far in the future take our sun and our planetary solar system into it many many billions of years from now. That's theory, of course but a seemingly valid one...in my opinion.

 

[ThazzarBaal]

Twould be a bit presumptuous to conclude or even imply a religious and/or religiously bent inquiry concerning my opening post. Frankly, without objective data attached it will always be in a thought or hope arena, but given the scientific data to date about our origins on earth, I think it's fairly safe to assume that the process will start over again one day. Maybe a few hundred billion years after or from today or maybe a few trillion. That's pure conjecture, but ... It's bound to happen again ... One day ... In the future ... After were gone and the whole world sleeps, lying dormant waiting for the right conditions to bring life to fruition again.

 

[DaveC426913]

I've read different.

There are good sources of information and there are bad sources of information. On the internet, mostly bad. You must be choosy.

From what I've gathered, the sun will red giant,

Yes. That has nothing to do with black holes.
The Sun will inflate and engulf Earth. Earth's orbit will not change appreciably until it is vaporized by the Sun.

we'll be subject to the effects of, and the big black hole centered in the milky way galaxy will one day, far far in the future take our sun and our planetary solar system into it many many billions of years from now. That's theory, of course but a seemingly valid one...in my opinion.

It's not a theory; it's a prediction, and generally it's a unlikely one. We're 26,000 light years away. The mass that is coreward from us will not change as inner stars fall into the black hole, so it wll not affect our orbit.

The much more likely outcome is that our sun will drift away from the core of the galaxy and freeze.

(Either way rebirth is pretty moot. You'll have been dead for a trillion years. Besides, even if you were reborn it would be into a cold, dying universe devoid of life and warmth. )

 

[C C]

Umm yeah ... But black holes exist center galaxy and we have a destined fate to enter therin, so I like to think there's something that has a thing to do with life on the other side, but hey ... You may be correct in the other placement suggestion. Ask an admin. I don't mind.

This part is key to the inevitable migration: "It's a portal, and a near instant rebirth, complete with new world, new sun, and everything needed for new life to begin yet another evolutionary journey."

And despite all the intermittent [praise be that it continue] virtue posturing, there's no appealing to decolonization of knowledge yet. It may be a touch longer before "complete liberation from Eurocentric tyranny" makes a full impact at SF.

Though it's not even a contest when social justice and the past and current crimes of the West go head-to-head. The latter's academic standards are oppressive to the cultural beliefs, indigenous science, and criterion of other population groups -- and born from and littered with white patriarchy, racism, ethnophobia, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc.

And the establishment [that's abroad, not here] may go into three monkeys mode if someone is foolish enough to bring-up the possibility of other cultures not being saints, either. Run and hide under a rock if that happens in the public mall or near a shrine of leftangelicalism. Lest ye be struck by one of many thunderbolts projecting from the Mighty Moral Compass toward sinners. Respectful genuflections and solemn prayers to the latter.
_

 

[DaveC426913]

Twould be a bit presumptuous to conclude or even imply a religious and/or religiously bent inquiry concerning my opening post.

You talked about rebirth.
Also, you posited a belief of yours without any evidence to support it.
Both of those fall within the purview of Religion.
But to the point: I didn't presume, I simply made a suggestion, and it was in fact only one of multiplies to suit your taste.

Frankly, without objective data attached it will always be in a thought or hope arena,

As much as unicorns and leprechauns - for which there also is no objective data.

but given the scientific data to date about our origins on earth, I think it's fairly safe to assume that the process will start over again one day.

As you just pointed out, there is no objective evidence of it ever having happened, there is no justification to think it ever will.

Maybe a few hundred billion years after or from today or maybe a few trillion. That's pure conjecture, but ... It's bound to happen again ... One day ... In the future ... After were gone and the whole world sleeps, lying dormant waiting for the right conditions to bring life to fruition again.

Maybe, but that's not rebirth.

 

[DaveC426913]

This part is key to the inevitable migration: "It's a portal, and a near instant rebirth, complete with new world, new sun, and everything needed for new life to begin yet another evolutionary journey."

And despite all the intermittent [praise be that it continue] virtue posturing, there's no appealing to decolonization of knowledge yet. It may be a touch longer before "complete liberation from Eurocentric tyranny" makes a full impact at SF.

Though it's not even a contest when social justice and the past and current crimes of the West go head-to-head. The latter's academic standards are oppressive to the cultural beliefs, indigenous science, and criterion of other population groups -- and born from and littered with white patriarchy, racism, ethnophobia, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc.

And the establishment [that's abroad, not here] may go into three monkeys mode if someone is foolish enough to bring-up the possibility of other cultures not being saints, either. Run and hide under a rock if that happens in the public mall or near a shrine of leftangelicalism. Lest ye be struck by one of many thunderbolts projecting from the Mighty Moral Compass toward sinners. Respectful genuflections and solemn prayers to the latter.
_

Wrong thread?

 

[ThazzarBaal]

There are good sources of information and there are bad sources of information. On the internet, mostly bad. You must be choosy.


Yes. That has nothing to do with black holes.
The Sun will inflate and engulf Earth. Earth's orbit will not change appreciably until it is vaporized by the Sun.


It's not a theory; it's a prediction, and generally it's a unlikely one. We're 26,000 light years away. The mass that is coreward from us will not change as inner stars fall into the black hole, so it wll not affect our orbit.

The much more likely outcome is that our sun will drift away from the core of the galaxy and freeze.

(Either way rebirth is pretty moot. You'll have been dead for a trillion years. Besides, even if you were reborn it would be into a cold, dying universe devoid of life and warmth. )

The sun will red giant and we will be subject to the effects of. Our orbit will be non applicable at that juncture of this worlds journey. Eventually, the sun will likely super nova again, but whether or not this will take place before or after entrance into the black hole is beyond me, but .... It might be something worth considering, given black holes are theorized to rip everything apart, hence a super nova type event horizon, but that's pure conjecture on my part.

We may be looking at the birth of a new universe or something to that effect. Maybe another big bang type scenario like the one we had before. I don't know. What do you think?

 

[ThazzarBaal]

You talked about rebirth.
Also, you posited a belief of yours without any evidence to support it.
Both of those fall within the purview of Religion.
But to the point: I didn't presume, I simply made a suggestion, and it was in fact only one of multiplies to suit your taste.


As much as unicorns and leprechauns - for which there also is no objective data.


As you just pointed out, there is no objective evidence of it ever having happened, there is no justification to think it ever will.


Maybe, but that's not rebirth.

Now, that's a mouth full.

 

[DaveC426913]

The sun will red giant and we will be subject to the effects of. Our orbit will be non applicable at that juncture of this worlds journey.

Our orbit will remain as it is as long as the Sun's mass remains what it is. Going to red giant stage will not change that.

What will happen is that the Sun will expand in size (without changing mass). It will get so large as to reach as far as Earth. Even at that point, Earth will still happily orbit it. It is only the drag from the sun's atmosphere that will cause Earth's orbit to deteriorate and fall into the Sun.

Eventually, the sun will likely super nova again,

It will not. It is too small to nova. It will shrink into a white dwarf.

but whether or not this will take place before or after entrance into the black hole

And it's sure not going to go nova after falling into any black hole.

We may be looking at the birth of a new universe or something to that effect. Maybe another big bang type scenario like the one we had before. I don't know. What do you think?

You're talking about the hypothesized "Big Crunch".

The end of the universe has nothing to do with black holes. In fact, all the black holes will evaporate away as time marches on.

 

[C C]

Wrong thread?

Not at all. Just saying to any others who might inadvertently post an _X_ in the wrong thread (destined to be moved), and who might be less accommodating about it than TB, to not prematurely appeal to any of that pesky stuff.
- - - - - - -

Q: Are you trying to seed some form of opportunistic deviltry in the minds of future trivial offenders?

A: Absolutely not. Just pre-empting such "opportunistic deviltry" before the more ingenious try to use it rather than moan and complain about it in typical Western chauvinist fashion.

[and so forth predictable and tedious dialogue progression....]
_

 

[ThazzarBaal]

Our orbit will remain as it is as long as the Sun's mass remains what it is. Going to red giant stage will not change that.

What will happen is that the Sun will expand in size (without changing mass). It will get so large as to reach as far as Earth. Even at that point, Earth will still happily orbit it. It is only the drag from the sun's atmosphere that will cause Earth's orbit to deteriorate and fall into the Sun.


It will not. It is too small to nova. It will shrink into a white dwarf.


And it's sure not going to go nova after falling into any black hole.


You're talking about the hypothesized "Big Crunch".

The end of the universe has nothing to do with black holes. In fact, all the black holes will evaporate away as time marches on.

Imagine that the sun actually gets larger as it goes red giant, which I would suggest increase its mass thus increasing gravitational pull, which would have some effect on the Earth's orbit, and if I'm not mistaken red giant comes before white dwarf and super novas, but I may be mistaken. The point is that some do foresee a super nova but not before the red giant process has played out. The black hole, despite ripping everything apart that enters it, is very likely and something most in the field are concerned about, which is to suggest that there are many researchers studying and getting together to help predict the timelines and events to take place before and possibly after all this plays out.

Call me simple, but I won't be awake and I just kinda figure we'll do a type of repeat and a continued evolution of life on the other side. So, it's fun to dig and discover, and figure out the numbers and timelines, but chances are we'll be in a more dormant seed like state at that point, so I don't worry too much about it. I like to think that the rebirth will eventually begin the processes again, but like I suggested, this hope is only based on history of our universe and well ... I suppose that happened so long ago it's difficult to imagine an influx or a type of imploding scenario leading to another big bang scenario. I guess I just figure that's how it might play out.

Edit: Big crunch is what I'm referring to I guess. The phrasing eluded my knowing. I do think you're too quick to conclude no super nova and I also think you're too quick to conclude that the black hole is irrelevant to our destiny as something we are destined to enter.

The spiral Galaxy would seem to clue us in on origin after all and the big crunch theory might be relevant as well.

 

[DaveC426913]

Imagine that the sun actually gets larger as it goes red giant,

No need to imagine. It does.

which I would suggest increase its mass thus increasing gravitational pull,

It does not.

Why imagine things that are not true when trying to understand the world? That way lies madness.

which would have some effect on the Earth's orbit, and if I'm not mistaken red giant comes before white dwarf and super novas, but I may be mistaken. The point is that some do foresee a super nova but not before the red giant process has played out. The black hole, despite ripping everything apart that enters it, is very likely and something most in the field are concerned about, which is to suggest that there are many researchers studying and getting together to help predict the timelines and events to take place before and possibly after all this plays out.

None of this is true.

Why speak of things one doesn't understand and get it all wrong? Wouldn't it make more sense to understand them first and then speak truths?

... it's fun ...

Sure, fun things are fun. But if you do it in the wrong place, you will not get the discussion you are looking for.

I find chopping wood fun but if I decided to do it in the shallow end of the local pool, they'd put a stop it it pretty quick.

 

[ThazzarBaal]

No need to imagine. It does.


It does not.

Why imagine things that are not true when trying to understand the world? That way lies madness.


None of this is true.

Why speak of things one doesn't understand and get it all wrong? Wouldn't it make more sense to understand them first and then speak truths?



Sure, fun things are fun. But if you do it in the wrong place, you will not get the discussion you are looking for.

I find chopping wood fun but if I decided to do it in the shallow end of the local pool, they'd put a stop it it pretty quick.

If mass equates to size and diameter then our sun will increase from 100 to 1000 times it's current size ... Otherwise I would use the term mass.

I do enjoy these things, but I must admit some ignorance also. Maybe you can clue me in on how to appropriately utilize the term mass in relation to the sun as it is and as it will.one day be as a red giant.

 

[ThazzarBaal]

No need to imagine. It does.


It does not.

Why imagine things that are not true when trying to understand the world? That way lies madness.


None of this is true.

Why speak of things one doesn't understand and get it all wrong? Wouldn't it make more sense to understand them first and then speak truths?



Sure, fun things are fun. But if you do it in the wrong place, you will not get the discussion you are looking for.

I find chopping wood fun but if I decided to do it in the shallow end of the local pool, they'd put a stop it it pretty quick.

Big bangs, formation of universes and planetary alignments via mass and gravitational pull, and orbits in play, the milky way, and a hole dead center of it all, was in your opinion, placed in the wrong forum by me for discussion. Where then might you place a thread such as this one on the subjects in play here?

 

[ThazzarBaal]

By the way, do you know what time it is in Nepal?