COVID-19 Source: Will we ever know?

[Q-reeus]

And....as follow-up to last post, here is an exceptionally sharp and scholarly demolition of the mainstream 'naturally evolved' narrative:
https://www.minervanett.no/files/2020/07/13/TheEvidenceNoNaturalEvol.pdf
Every time I see that arrogant leer on Anthony Fauci's mug, while dispensing common sense advice re masks, social distancing & testing levels, I have to ask how deep is his involvement in this COVID-19 crisis as very handy accelerator of NWO agenda. Global crisis -> Global governance i.e. dictatorship.

 

[Quantum Quack]

And....as follow-up to last post, here is an exceptionally sharp and scholarly demolition of the mainstream 'naturally evolved' narrative:
https://www.minervanett.no/files/2020/07/13/TheEvidenceNoNaturalEvol.pdf
Every time I see that arrogant leer on Anthony Fauci's mug, while dispensing common sense advice re masks, social distancing & testing levels, I have to ask how deep is his involvement in this COVID-19 crisis as very handy accelerator of NWO agenda. Global crisis -> Global governance i.e. dictatorship.

it is such a shame that a global crisis might inspire the world to try and work together isn't it?
Centralized governance in the form of the UN or something close is inevitable...

 

[Q-reeus]

it is such a shame that a global crisis might inspire the world to try and work together isn't it?
Centralized governance in the form of the UN or something close is inevitable...

An actual response! I don't decry well coordinated international cooperation given the out of control mess that has developed in many countries. Reckless optimism and laissez-faire responses by the likes of perennial foot-in-mouth Trump and Balsonaro are tragically deeply undermining what's left of nationalist pride in the 'Western democracies'. Anyway if needed coordinated international action is guided by a false narrative 'purely accidental outbreak of naturally mutated virus', less attention is given as to how that coordinated action develops and fits into a larger agenda.
In past threads I supplied links to verified statements by the likes of James Warburg and David Rockefeller that made it clear we are to have a completely centralized Soviet style world government sooner or later. Once you understand how such types view the masses of humanity, that prospect should send a cold shiver down your spine.

Now, would you like to critique the actual substance of the articles I linked to? Because they present a very strong case for deliberate release of genetically modified gain-of-function (human-to-human transmission) virus.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Now, would you like to critique the actual substance of the articles I linked to?

I think the first few paragraphs lays it out quite clearly.

No-one has ever produced a safe and effective vaccine against a coronavirus.

Now .. just think about what you are alleging...
Are you suggesting that some one is stupid enough to design a virus with out having a vaccine at their disposal?
Are you suggesting that some one smart enough to engineer a virus isn't smart enough to make sure he had a vaccine before he released it?

If it was about power or money then we shall have to wait for a miraculous vaccine to hit the market being used as a device of extortion or simply to reap massive profit....
Sounds like one of those Mission Impossible movies...

 

[Q-reeus]

I think the first few paragraphs lays it out quite clearly.

Now .. just think about what you are alleging...
Are you suggesting that some one is stupid enough to design a virus with out having a vaccine at their disposal?
Are you suggesting that some one smart enough to engineer a virus isn't smart enough to make sure he had a vaccine before he released it?

If it was about power or money then we shall have to wait for a miraculous vaccine to hit the market being used as a device of extortion or simply to reap massive profit....
Sounds like one of those Mission Impossible movies...

Your leading question ignores the evidence marshaled for genetic enhancement with a particular human-to-human only greatly enhanced infection rate.
It's impossible to prove deliberate release since obviously that would be conducted secretly with much beforehand planning to camouflage.
Evidently you didn't follow the two last links supplied in #140. The criminal state of Israel claims to have a viable vaccine ready for $ale - way ahead of the rest of the world. None of this absolutely proves deliberate release. Only a hugely unlikely suicidal confession from a core insider would furnish that.
To reiterate - deal with the evidence for gain of function enhancement with extraordinarily high human-to-human only infectivity. To deliberately cook that up, use is then a given.

 

[paddoboy]

https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s...k-of-the-coronavirus-was-made-in-a-lab-rumour

Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab

JACINTA BOWLER
20 APRIL 2020

It's a rumour that just won't die. When asked whether the COVID-19virus was genetically engineered in a lab, scientists have already said "no" rather firmly, but the matter of the new coronavirus' origin is unlikely to be put to rest so easily.

Discussions around this subject have become even more pertinent since US government intelligence officials are reportedly investigating the potential source of the pandemic, focussing on theories that it may have originated in a laboratory, despite all evidence pointing to SARS-CoV-2 not being human-made.

"All evidence so far points to the fact the COVID-19 virus is naturally derived and not man-made," explains immunologist Nigel McMillan from the Menzies Health Institute Queensland.

"If you were going to design it in a lab the sequence changes make no sense as all previous evidence would tell you it would make the virus worse. No system exists in the lab to make some of the changes found."

Back in late March, we covered a study published in Nature Medicine, in which the researchers investigated the genomic data of SARS-CoV-2 - particularly the receptor-binding domain (RBD) sections of the virus - to try and discover how it mutated into the virulent and deadly version we're currently struggling to contain.

As a by-product of their research, they were able to determine that SARS-CoV-2 was not genetically manipulated.

"By comparing the available genome sequence data for known coronavirus strains, we can firmly determine that SARS-CoV-2 originated through natural processes," one of the researchers, Scripps Research immunologist Kristian Andersen, said at the time.

"Two features of the virus, the mutations in the RBD portion of the spike protein and its distinct backbone, rules out laboratory manipulation as a potential origin for SARS-CoV-2."

Although it is clear the virus was not created in the lab, there have been ongoing concerns it may have 'escaped' a research facility, with most of the speculation - understandably - focussed on the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV). However, it remains just speculation. The Washington Post recently reported that US embassy officials had safety concerns about the lab back in 2018, and the institute did keep a closely related bat virus - but even that's far from a smoking gun.

"The closest known relative of SARS-CoV-2 is a bat virus named RaTG13, which was kept at the WIV. There is some unfounded speculation that this virus was the origin of SARS-CoV-2," explains University of Sydney evolutionary virologist, Edward Holmes.

extract:
What experts do agree on is that a pandemic like this is no surprise. Scientists have been warning governments for years that a new disease was on the horizon, and that many countries were woefully under-prepared.

"We have to be careful to not aid those irresponsibly using this global crisis for political point-scoring by giving any oxygen to these and other rumours."
more at link.

 

[paddoboy]

https://theconversation.com/heres-h...came-from-bats-and-wasnt-made-in-a-lab-141850
Here’s how scientists know the coronavirus came from bats and wasn’t made in a lab:

One of the conspiracy theories that have plagued attempts to keep people informed during the pandemic is the idea that the coronavirus was created in a laboratory. But the vast majority of scientists who have studied the virus agree that it evolved naturally and crossed into humans from an animal species, most likely a bat.

How exactly do we know that this virus, SARS-CoV-2, has a “zoonotic” animal origin and not an artificial one? The answers lie in the genetic material and evolutionary history of the virus, and understanding the ecology of the bats in question.

An estimated 60% of known infectious diseases and 75% of all new, emerging, or re-emerging diseases in humans have animal origins. SARS-CoV-2 is the newest of seven coronaviruses found in humans, all of which came from animals, either from bats, mice or domestic animals. Bats were also the source of the viruses causing Ebola, rabies, Nipah and Hendra virus infections, Marburg virus disease, and strains of Influenza A virus.

The genetic makeup or “genome” of SARS-CoV-2 has been sequenced and publicly shared thousands of times by scientists all over the world. If the virus had been genetically engineered in a lab there would be signs of manipulation in the genome data. This would include evidence of an existing viral sequence as the backbone for the new virus, and obvious, targeted inserted (or deleted) genetic elements.

But no such evidence exists. It is very unlikely that any techniques used to genetically engineer the virus would not leave a genetic signature, like specific identifiable pieces of DNA code.

The genome of SARS-CoV-2 is similar to that of other bat coronaviruses, as well as those of pangolins, all of which have a similar overall genomic architecture. Differences between the genomes of these coronaviruses show natural patterns typical of coronavirus evolution. This suggests that SARS-CoV-2 evolved from a previous wild coronavirus.

One of the key features that makes SARS-CoV-2 different from the other coronaviruses is a particular “spike” protein that binds well with another protein on the outside of human cells called ACE2. This enables the virus to hook into and infect a variety of human cells. However, other related coronaviruses do have similar features, providing evidence that they have evolved naturally rather than being artificially added in a lab.

Coronaviruses and bats are locked in an evolutionary arms race in which the viruses are constantly evolving to evade the bat immune system and bats are evolving to withstand infections from coronaviruses. A virus will evolve multiple variants, most of which will be destroyed by the bat’s immune system, but some will survive and pass to other bats.
EXTRACT:

There is evidence that early cases of COVID-19 occurred outside of Wuhan in China and had no clear link to the city’s wet market where the pandemic is thought to have begun. But that isn’t evidence of a conspiracy.

It could simply be that infected people accidentally brought the virus into the city and then the wet market, where the enclosed, busy conditions increased the chances of the disease spreading rapidly. This includes the possibility of one of the scientists involved in bat coronavirus research in Wuhan unknowingly becoming infected and bringing the virus back from where their subject bats lived. This would still be considered natural infection, not a laboratory leak.
MORE AT LINK....

 

[paddoboy]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbr...ovid-19-wuhan-lab-origin-theory/#2a2e2db65aba


BREAKING|140,556 views|May 10, 2020,04:13pm EDT
A Timeline Of The COVID-19 Wuhan Lab Origin Theory
Jack BrewsterForbes Staff
Business
I'm a news reporter for Forbes.
Updated May 24, 2020, 10:59am EDT

The theory COVID-19 originated in a laboratory in Wuhan, China — and not naturally in wildlife — has emerged as an explosive claim pitting scientists, who remain skeptical of the claim, against Trump administration officials, who have rallied around the theory as the White House turns to deflecting attention away from criticism it faltered in its handling of the outbreak and casting blame onto China; here’s a timeline laying out the progression of the theory:

January 26
The conservative Washington Times publishes a report with the menacing headline “Coronavirus may have originated in lab linked to China's biowarfare program,” which immediately gets global pickup.

February 16Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark., becomes the first high-profile U.S. politician to raise the possibility that the outbreak “originated”— or, presumably, was created—in the Wuhan lab — while admitting there was no evidence to suggest there was.

February 16The Washington Post finds experts who quickly dismiss Cotton’s suggestion, like Richard Ebright, a professor of chemical biology at Rutgers University, who says, “The possibility this was a deliberately released bioweapon can be firmly excluded.”

February 16
Cotton clarifies his earlier remarks in a series of tweets—noting different possible scenarios, from a man-made virus theory to a lab accident—though concedes that the virus originating naturally is “still the most likely” theory.

A group of 27 prominent scientists outside China publishes a statement in The Lancet to “condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin“ and point out the research “overwhelmingly” concludes the “coronavirus originated in wildlife.”

March 17“
We do not believe any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible,” five prominent scientists write in a report published in Nature Medicine.
MORE AT LINK......

 

[paddoboy]

As per the thread title,
COVID-19 Source: Will we ever know?
my guess is yes, in time, probably another 12 months or so, may see something far more positive emerge, rather then rumours and conspiracy...peer review in other words, and the scientific methodology will give us a more reliable answer.

 

[paddoboy]

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-myths.html

14 coronavirus myths busted by science
By Rachael Rettner - Senior Writer a month ago

As the novel coronavirus continues to infect people around the world, news articles and social media posts about the outbreak continue to spread online. Unfortunately, this relentless flood of information can make it difficult to separate fact from fiction — and during a viral outbreak, rumors and misinformation can be dangerous.

Here at Live Science, we've compiled a list of the most pervasive myths about the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19, the disease it causes, and explained why these rumors are misleading, or just plain wrong.

Myth: The virus is just a mutated form of the common cold
No, it's not. more............

Myth: The virus was probably made in a lab
No evidence suggests that the virus is man-made. ............

Myth: If you have coronavirus, "you'll know"

No, you won't...................

Myth: The coronavirus is less deadly than the flu
Advertisement

Though the death rate for COVID-19 is unclear, almost all credible research suggests it is much higher than that of the seasonal flu, which has a death rate of around 0.1% in the U.S.,..........

Myth: Vitamin C supplements will stop you from catching COVID-19



Researchers have yet to find any evidence that vitamin C supplements can render people immune to COVID-19 infection..............
much more.................

 

[Quantum Quack]

Your leading question ignores the evidence marshaled for genetic enhancement with a particular human-to-human only greatly enhanced infection rate.
It's impossible to prove deliberate release since obviously that would be conducted secretly with much beforehand planning to camouflage.
Evidently you didn't follow the two last links supplied in #140. The criminal state of Israel claims to have a viable vaccine ready for $ale - way ahead of the rest of the world. None of this absolutely proves deliberate release. Only a hugely unlikely suicidal confession from a core insider would furnish that.
To reiterate - deal with the evidence for gain of function enhancement with extraordinarily high human-to-human only infectivity. To deliberately cook that up, use is then a given.

Actually I have a friend in Tasmania who nurtured a bat virus and then infected a Pangolin and then reinfected another Bat. Stored the resultant virus after a year had passed in glass vial and sent it to Wuhan for research. But as it was being transported the silly transporter guy decided to visit the wet market and by some street food, not knowing he was infected by this cocktail due the cork leaking on the vial... lol
The guy also claims to have a vaccine but hey.. no one is listening to him...
I also have a friend in Johannesburg who can't stand the idea of eating bats but eats lizards instead because he believes it good for immunity to various viruses. So far he hasn't contracted COVID-19 so he must be right.

The point being that testimony with out evidence that is supported by a qualified peer group is useless.
This doesn't mean that it is false it just means that it ends up being no more than qualified gossip.

It may be worth considering that right now in the jungles of Asia there are probably 100's of even more deadly coronaviruses just waiting for some idiot to decide to go for a hunt....

 

[Q-reeus]

https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s...k-of-the-coronavirus-was-made-in-a-lab-rumour

Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab

JACINTA BOWLER
20 APRIL 2020

It's a rumour that just won't die. When asked whether the COVID-19virus was genetically engineered in a lab, scientists have already said "no" rather firmly, but the matter of the new coronavirus' origin is unlikely to be put to rest so easily.

Discussions around this subject have become even more pertinent since US government intelligence officials are reportedly investigating the potential source of the pandemic, focussing on theories that it may have originated in a laboratory, despite all evidence pointing to SARS-CoV-2 not being human-made.

"All evidence so far points to the fact the COVID-19 virus is naturally derived and not man-made," explains immunologist Nigel McMillan from the Menzies Health Institute Queensland.

"If you were going to design it in a lab the sequence changes make no sense as all previous evidence would tell you it would make the virus worse. No system exists in the lab to make some of the changes found."

Back in late March, we covered a study published in Nature Medicine, in which the researchers investigated the genomic data of SARS-CoV-2 - particularly the receptor-binding domain (RBD) sections of the virus - to try and discover how it mutated into the virulent and deadly version we're currently struggling to contain.

As a by-product of their research, they were able to determine that SARS-CoV-2 was not genetically manipulated.

"By comparing the available genome sequence data for known coronavirus strains, we can firmly determine that SARS-CoV-2 originated through natural processes," one of the researchers, Scripps Research immunologist Kristian Andersen, said at the time.

"Two features of the virus, the mutations in the RBD portion of the spike protein and its distinct backbone, rules out laboratory manipulation as a potential origin for SARS-CoV-2."

Although it is clear the virus was not created in the lab, there have been ongoing concerns it may have 'escaped' a research facility, with most of the speculation - understandably - focussed on the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV). However, it remains just speculation. The Washington Post recently reported that US embassy officials had safety concerns about the lab back in 2018, and the institute did keep a closely related bat virus - but even that's far from a smoking gun.

"The closest known relative of SARS-CoV-2 is a bat virus named RaTG13, which was kept at the WIV. There is some unfounded speculation that this virus was the origin of SARS-CoV-2," explains University of Sydney evolutionary virologist, Edward Holmes.

extract:
What experts do agree on is that a pandemic like this is no surprise. Scientists have been warning governments for years that a new disease was on the horizon, and that many countries were woefully under-prepared.

"We have to be careful to not aid those irresponsibly using this global crisis for political point-scoring by giving any oxygen to these and other rumours."
more at link.

In the article linked to in #141, Sorensen et. al. under 'Puzzling features', point-by-point specifically deal with and dispatch as contradictory the Andersen et. al. March 17 paper referred to here. Something never uncovered if one merely hunts for pro-official narrative articles to cut'n'paste here.
Then Sorensen et. al. go on to describe 5 salient features strongly implicating lab manipulation.
Next under 'A sequence of four linked research papers is explained', a clear record of ongoing gain-of-function research at Wuhan lab on SARS-CoV -> SARS-CoV2 is presented.
Including shared international research, with Israel very likely a keen participant and beneficiary, maybe indirectly through US 'partners'.

 

[paddoboy]

Something never uncovered if one merely hunts for pro-official narrative articles to cut'n'paste here.
Then Sorensen et. al. go on to describe 5 salient features strongly implicating lab manipulation.
Next under 'A sequence of four linked research papers is explained', a clear record of ongoing gain-of-function research at Wuhan lab on SARS-CoV -> SARS-CoV2 is presented.
Including shared international research, with Israel very likely a keen participant and beneficiary, maybe indirectly through US 'partners'.

One cut n paste is as good as another, generally speaking and taking note of reputability.
But anyway I stand by my previous post

As per the thread title,
COVID-19 Source: Will we ever know?
my guess is yes, in time, probably another 12 months or so, may see something far more positive emerge, rather then rumours and conspiracy...peer review in other words, and the scientific methodology will give us a more reliable answer.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

what is the

NWO agenda

?

 

[RainbowSingularity]

it is such a shame that a global crisis might inspire the world to try and work together isn't it?
Centralized governance in the form of the UN or something close is inevitable...

one government to rule them all
much like capitalism
or communism

lol

as long as the majority are making blood money from everyone fighting each other, the core economics wont change

due the cork

"got cork, will viral"

It may be worth considering that right now in the jungles of Asia there are probably 100's of even more deadly coronaviruses just waiting for some idiot to decide to go for a hunt....

and all those Asian mass populations living on urban sprawl where they have cut back the jungle to build houses and they eat wild animals from the jungle.
its a matter of when not if
and covid 19 is like the childrens PG rated warm up to the main feature film

 

[iceaura]

To reiterate - deal with the evidence for gain of function enhancement with extraordinarily high human-to-human only infectivity.

The standard explanation for that is a longer circulation time within China than is admitted by the Chinese - which is also indicated by the distance between the bats and the Wuhan market, the wide geographical spread of some of the early diagnoses, and the slow mutation rate of the virus in its newly invaded regions far distant from its apparent origin.

None of those documented circumstances indicate deliberate release of an engineered virus.

 

[Q-reeus]

The standard explanation for that is a longer circulation time within China than is admitted by the Chinese - which is also indicated by the distance between the bats and the Wuhan market, the wide geographical spread of some of the early diagnoses, and the slow mutation rate of the virus in its newly invaded regions far distant from its apparent origin.

None of those documented circumstances indicate deliberate release of an engineered virus.

Short of a hugely unlikely insider fully detailed confession, it's inherently impossible to prove which scenario actually occurred. Sorensen et. al. have made a very strong case for years of lab efforts at intentionally enhanced human-to-human infectivity as summarized in #152. Purely accidental subsequent release is a possibility but the very focus of that long-term multi-lab program suggests something more deliberate.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Short of a hugely unlikely insider fully detailed confession, it's inherently impossible to prove which scenario actually occurred. Sorensen et. al. have made a very strong case for years of lab efforts at intentionally enhanced human-to-human infectivity as summarized in #152. Purely accidental subsequent release is a possibility but the very focus of that long-term multi-lab program suggests something more deliberate.

There is a major obstacle to granting this sort of conspiracy theory credibility.
If you consider that there are literally thousands of research teams currently working with this virus for just about every 1st world nation, some even replicating this virus, you have to conclude that if this virus was in any way seriously suspected of being artificially modified or artificially created the news of such would be like greased lightening.

Apparently there is an enzyme that would have to be obviously distorted if editing had taken place, and as such there is no evidence that it has.

The conspiracy theory only works ( makes very limited sense) if you treat the situation in a "bubble" of limited information and fails once you realise that way too many expert virologists from all over the world would have to be involved in this alleged and massively spectacular cover up.
A house of cards is a phrase often used to describe the sort of reasoning.
So I ask how you see thousands of independent scientists being involved in such an amazing feat of deception? Especially given the extreme nature of the consequences.

 

[Q-reeus]

There is a major obstacle to granting this sort of conspiracy theory credibility.
If you consider that there are literally thousands of research teams currently working with this virus for just about every 1st world nation, some even replicating this virus, you have to conclude that if this virus was in any way seriously suspected of being artificially modified or artificially created the news of such would be like greased lightening.

Apparently there is an enzyme that would have to be obviously distorted if editing had taken place, and as such there is no evidence that it has.

The conspiracy theory only works ( makes very limited sense) if you treat the situation in a "bubble" of limited information and fails once you realise that way too many expert virologists from all over the world would have to be involved in this alleged and massively spectacular cover up.
A house of cards is a phrase often used to describe the sort of reasoning.
So I ask how you see thousands of independent scientists being involved in such an amazing feat of deception? Especially given the extreme nature of the consequences.

So now it's down to argument from credulity - 'how could so many experts fail to notice the telltale signs of artificial mutation?' And you know that more than a tiny fraction of those experts were specifically engaged in looking for signs of human manipulation? Rather than in trying to locate and exploit attack points and pathways rendering the virus impotent as an obvious priority? I can't give a reliable estimate but imagine the latter overwhelmingly dominated thinking thus direction. If as is very likely they are given and expected to work within an overall scenario of inevitable outbreak stemming from natural mutation, that blinkered guideline will be followed.

If you never did read all through https://www.minervanett.no/files/2020/07/13/TheEvidenceNoNaturalEvol.pdf
at the least read from last part of p5 through to and including Conclusion. Enough circumstantial evidence uncovered to mount a case for apprehensions and initiate trials for crimes against humanity. Whether release was accidental or deliberate.

PS: As for "Apparently there is an enzyme that would have to be obviously distorted if editing had taken place, and as such there is no evidence that it has."
Only one unique enzyme as marker for tampering? Very surprising if there are not numerous ways to skin this viral 'cat'. If otherwise, definitive evidence of such a restriction is where to be found?

 

[Quantum Quack]

So now it's down to argument from credulity - 'how could so many experts fail to notice the telltale signs of artificial mutation?' And you know that more than a tiny fraction of those experts were specifically engaged in looking for signs of human manipulation? Rather than in trying to locate and exploit attack points and pathways rendering the virus impotent as an obvious priority? I can't give a reliable estimate but imagine the latter overwhelmingly dominated thinking thus direction. If as is very likely they are given and expected to work within an overall scenario of inevitable outbreak stemming from natural mutation, that blinkered guideline will be followed.

If you never did read all through https://www.minervanett.no/files/2020/07/13/TheEvidenceNoNaturalEvol.pdf
at the least read from last part of p5 through to and including Conclusion. Enough circumstantial evidence uncovered to mount a case for apprehensions and initiate trials for crimes against humanity. Whether release was accidental or deliberate.

PS: As for "Apparently there is an enzyme that would have to be obviously distorted if editing had taken place, and as such there is no evidence that it has."
Only one unique enzyme as marker for tampering? Very surprising if there are not numerous ways to skin this viral 'cat'. If otherwise, definitive evidence of such a restriction is where to be found?

google "why covid is not artificial"
only 651 million results... but the first 4 or so should enlighten you...
I read about the enzyme issue about 6 months ago and can not remember the exact article.. ( posted the link in this thread towards the beginning when I questioned the same )