AOC clears up an issue.!!!

[RainbowSingularity]

It’s wrong when anyone does it. I think we need to start raising the bar, expecting better conduct from all politicians. You don’t talk to your female colleagues that way, do you? Imagine if you did? You’d likely be fired but it’s just business as usual in the government.

underneath is a slightly bigger question which you elude to

is it ok for a business leader to talk like that to another business leader ?

there was no critical business need for the interaction
so it was purely personal motivation

managers have arguments all the time
sometimes they might use a swear word
but that is not a personal attack

the usa culture is that people with power are above the law
that seems to be the real core message that is maintained

it is a cultural issue that only the usa can resolve

keeping in mind if that was an ordinary working class male doing that to a republican female senator , that working class man would be already arrested and be under investigation by homeland security WITH charges laid and being processed
they would be searching his computers and personal background for stalking and sexual predator indicators and looking at a psyche evaluation

however, it is an American cultural issue
those in power are above the law
they have their own set of laws and morals
some other countrys have similar cultural laws

 

[wegs]

underneath is a slightly bigger question which you elude to

is it ok for a business leader to talk like that to another business leader ?

there was no critical business need for the interaction
so it was purely personal motivation

managers have arguments all the time
sometimes they might use a swear word
but that is not a personal attack

the usa culture is that people with power are above the law
that seems to be the real core message that is maintained

it is a cultural issue that only the usa can resolve

keeping in mind if that was an ordinary working class male doing that to a republican female senator , that working class man would be already arrested and be under investigation by homeland security WITH charges laid and being processed
they would be searching his computers and personal background for stalking and sexual predator indicators and looking at a psyche evaluation

however, it is an American cultural issue
those in power are above the law
they have their own set of laws and morals
some other countrys have similar cultural laws

Misogyny isn’t just an American problem - it exists everywhere. There are parts of the world where it is legal to stone women to death for being raped and where men still have the “right” to beat their wives. Unfortunately, it exists everywhere. : (

 

[Bells]

Was there a point in that rant?

What was the point of your flame?

Well, if the modern and empowered woman can't stand the heat...

Of unprofessional and abusive, not to mention sexualised behaviour?

It's not that she can't stand it. It is more the case that no one should have to put up with it.

But you know this already.

This is the same kind of rubbish your tightwad fucked up side of politics tried to pull when someone released a video of her dancing in college..

You have nothing substantial to say, so you attack her sex.

Then again, no one can be shocked and surprised. We are talking about a side of weak politics that endears itself to weaker men who believe women should be locked inside, chained to the sink and pumping out as many babies as possible. Any woman not adhering to that ideal is a threat. You know, men like you. Your choice of words was telling..

 

[RainbowSingularity]

misogyny isn’t just an American problem

indeed
i have read quite a bit on the darker side of that stuff
india & china female baby killers/infanticide
tens of millions of baby girls killed because they cant work to create income like a male child

china are trying to do what is right
but trying to change culture that dates back centurys is hard (like India and Africa and some other countrys{billions of people & hundreds of different cultural groups})

Blood smuggling in China: Why pregnant women are breaking the law to find out their babies' sex
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/13/asia/hong-kong-blood-smuggling-nipt-intl-hnk/index.html

India thousands of women murdered and burnt to death because they object to something or the husbands family dont like them
or they want to simply take the dowry and then kill them
listed as "died in kitchen fire"
the acculturated pedophilia of boys in Afghanistan & Africa that goes back century's
child brides and sexual slavery of women

i could go on ...

video of her dancing in college..

i missed that one
typical slut shaming from the conservative liberals
thats what yoho was doing
trying to slut shame her and throw her to the media by attacking her as a predator to make her act as the prey animal and become "guilty" to the waiting media scrum
evil stuff

 

[RainbowSingularity]

a video of her dancing in college..

this one ?(Alex looks like she studied dance) funny(entertaining) to see the directors sexual teenage desires come out as a sub narrative lol college culture is so funny(refreshing)
conservatives really hate that type of liberty and freedom
the music is a bit boring
i notice they have a couple of african dance moves in there
the toe kick running man was soo in and trendy lol
it really showed who had physical stamina so people could know who was worth considering for hook-ups(casual sexual encounters & exploration)

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Seen it befor... still love it... thanks

 

[Vociferous]

It’s wrong when anyone does it. I think we need to start raising the bar, expecting better conduct from all politicians. You don’t talk to your female colleagues that way, do you? Imagine if you did? You’d likely be fired but it’s just business as usual in the government.

Each congressman serves their own constituents. So comparing any business interaction that has any consequences beyond keeping your own constituents happy is irrelevant. And wanting to change well over 200 years of political history for women is the exact opposite to claiming women are equal or empowered.

So which is it? Are women equal and empowered or do they require special considerations, to make accommodations for their unique sensitivities?
Again, you can't have it both ways.

Of unprofessional and abusive, not to mention sexualised behaviour?

Gendered insults are not sexualized, unless you have a personal fetish. Nor has "professional" ever been a standard in politics.

It's not that she can't stand it. It is more the case that no one should have to put up with it.

Of course you mean women shouldn't have to put up with it. Men largely do not care.
But I seriously doubt AOC wants it stopped, as it would remove a way for her to play victim, as seen in the OP video.

This is the same kind of rubbish your tightwad fucked up side of politics tried to pull when someone released a video of her dancing in college..

You mean after the left made attacking and ridiculing others for long-past behaviors a standard MO? How shocking that the right would simply follow suit.

You have nothing substantial to say, so you attack her sex.

No, I simply hold the "empowered woman" claims of the left up to well over 200 years of accepted politics.

Then again, no one can be shocked and surprised. We are talking about a side of weak politics that endears itself to weaker men who believe women should be locked inside, chained to the sink and pumping out as many babies as possible. Any woman not adhering to that ideal is a threat. You know, men like you. Your choice of words was telling..

Your old-fashioned caricature is cute but obsolete, at best. At worse, it betrays a complete ignorance of anything outside of your personally curated bubble.
Your sensitivity to words betrays any pretense you may have at being equal to men, at least in all the ways the left demands you are. There's nothing sexist about simply accepting that there are differences. Difference does not imply inferiority. So try not to take it so personally.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Seen it befor... still love it... thanks

i prefer it without the music because the music reminds me of some other music slightly similar but vastly more complex
which is a little bit annoying because the acting & dancing is fantastic

camera zoom is wrong on AOC also
thats slightly annoying
angle is good
but they probably need a camera on a moving boom for the shot the director was thinking
a few of the still shots are a bit too still
its so close to being very very good

with modern techno they can use for still shots to merge as a musical crescendo with something singular moving in the scene for the viewers eye to follow

 

[cluelusshusbund]

All of its "flaws" give it a home movie vibe that i see as perfect

 

[iceaura]

Again, you can't have it both ways.

You can have it neither way.

So which is it? Are women equal and empowered or do they require special considerations, to make accommodations for their unique sensitivities?

As women are a central plurality of the human population, whatever exclusive or characteristic sensitivities they have as a group would be neither special or unique - by definition. They would be normative, by default assumption; if they are not they are being suppressed or excluded somehow.

Is Yoho equal and empowered, or does he require special dispensations for his gross immaturity and inability to control his public speech and behavior?
Do we really have to treat him as we treat somebody with Tourette's Syndrome? He occupies a position of considerable power, after all - what he says and does potentially affects millions of people's daily lives.

Of course you mean women shouldn't have to put up with it. Men largely do not care.

Oh please.
One reason AOC has had to learn how to throw men out of her jobsite for such behavior is that it starts fights between men, and fights are bad for business. Men are quite touchy, sensitive, quickly offended little guys - and they do not always restrict their responses to such competent displays of diplomacy as AOC has made a trademark. I'd bet not even Yoho would be careless enough to talk to a bunch of guys in a biker bar like that - or any male bartender in a bar full of guys.

 

[billvon]

So which is it? Are women equal and empowered or do they require special considerations, to make accommodations for their unique sensitivities?

How you took "It’s wrong when anyone does it" and turn it into "women need special considerations" is . . . . a good explanation for many of your posts here.

You take something straightforward like "It’s wrong when anyone does it. I think we need to start raising the bar, expecting better conduct from all politicians. " You realize you can't argue with it, but you feel compelled to do so because it sounds liberal. So in your mind you create a strawman - "she wants women to have special privileges" and you argue against that. That way you maintain your own internal view of the world, that you are fair and wise, and it's everyone else who is unreasonable and stupid.

 

[Vociferous]

So which is it? Are women equal and empowered or do they require special considerations, to make accommodations for their unique sensitivities?
Again, you can't have it both ways.

You can have it neither way.

Really? You think there's no such thing as an empowered woman?
At least I believe there is.

As women are a central plurality of the human population, whatever exclusive or characteristic sensitivities they have as a group would be neither special or unique - by definition. They would be normative, by default assumption; if they are not they are being suppressed or excluded somehow.

Not in a career in which they are a minority, and social science even treats them as a minority group. So your equivocations are meaningless.

Is Yoho equal and empowered, or does he require special dispensations for his gross immaturity and inability to control his public speech and behavior?

It's called freedom of speech, just like AOC calling people xenophobic, white supremacist, Nazis, etc..
Again, well over 200 years of insult in US politics. In some other countries, politicians come to blows.

He occupies a position of considerable power, after all - what he says and does potentially affects millions of people's daily lives.

Only his constituents, who can vote him out any time they wish.
So I take it that you're against free speech and representative democracy.

One reason AOC has had to learn how to throw men out of her jobsite for such behavior is that it starts fights between men, and fights are bad for business.

Yeah, drunks, in a bar.

Men are quite touchy, sensitive, quickly offended little guys - and they do not always restrict their responses to such competent displays of diplomacy as AOC has made a trademark. I'd bet not even Yoho would be careless enough to talk to a bunch of guys in a biker bar like that - or any male bartender in a bar full of guys.

And in the US, battery is a crime. Too bad you can't mange to differentiate free speech from a crime.

How you took "It’s wrong when anyone does it" and turn it into "women need special considerations" is . . . . a good explanation for many of your posts here.

You take something straightforward like "It’s wrong when anyone does it. I think we need to start raising the bar, expecting better conduct from all politicians. " You realize you can't argue with it, but you feel compelled to do so because it sounds liberal. So in your mind you create a strawman - "she wants women to have special privileges" and you argue against that. That way you maintain your own internal view of the world, that you are fair and wise, and it's everyone else who is unreasonable and stupid.

Free speech is never wrong unless it's a crime, like explicitly threatening or inciting to violence or panic. "Wrong", in the sense of offending someone's delicate sensitivities, is a subjective moral judgement, at best. I get that you may want to enforce your personal moral judgement on others, by that's just not how a free society works. The only expectations on any politician are those of the people who elected them. And they likely agree that AOC claiming people murder for food is vile.

I've never said anything at all about women wanting "special privileges". They can either function in a fundamentally adversarial environment, like politics, or they can't. Them whining about it doesn't change anything, except maybe political points with their own constituents for playing the victim.

 

[wegs]

I think when the leader of the free world has been noted saying “women are easy, just grab ‘em by the p***y,” it sets a tone for how many men view women, sadly. Consider the bar lowered.

Vociferous - I work with mainly men, and they treat each other with respect and probably would be fired if they called one another “bitches,” and the like. Not all men live in the sewer. I don’t expect “special considerations” as a woman, but I expect to be treated as I treat others - with respect. I’m sure you feel the same - just because you’re a guy doesn’t mean you need to join the herd of misogynists. Stand up for what is right.

 

[Vociferous]

I think when the leader of the free world has been noted saying “women are easy, just grab ‘em by the p***y,” it sets a tone for how many men view women, sadly. Consider the bar lowered.

If you see politicians as role models of virtue, you've got bigger problems.

Vociferous - I work with mainly men, and they treat each other with respect and probably would be fired if they called one another “bitches,” and the like. Not all men live in the sewer. I don’t expect “special considerations” as a woman, but I expect to be treated as I treat others - with respect. I’m sure you feel the same - just because you’re a guy doesn’t mean you need to join the herd of misogynists. Stand up for what is right.

And those men have the same boss, probably aren't allowed to be adversarial, and are probably hyper-aware of working around a woman. Otherwise, even friends just joking around and giving each other a hard time will call each other "bitch". It's actually very egalitarian to treat women as equals in an explicitly adversarial system. Treating them like children is presuming they are not equal and can't handle such inherently adversarial positions. If you what politeness, you don't go into adversarial politics. And don't pretend that AOC hasn't done her share of name-calling. She's fine being adversarial until she has teh opportunity to play the victim.

 

[billvon]

Free speech is never wrong unless it's a crime, like explicitly threatening or inciting to violence or panic. "Wrong", in the sense of offending someone's delicate sensitivities, is a subjective moral judgement, at best.

You just contradicted yourself in two sentences.

You have a right to free speech. You can use it to walk around in a crowd, find disabled veterans and shout "fuck your so called sacrifice!" to every disabled vet you see. You might argue that this is protected speech; you could probably convince a court of this. It is also wrong.

I know you don't understand that. That's OK.

I get that you may want to enforce your personal moral judgement on others

Nope. Not even close. Once again, you have no rebuttal to my argument, so you make up a position you CAN argue with.

I've never said anything at all about women wanting "special privileges".

You asked if "they require special considerations, to make accommodations for their unique sensitivities." Those are special privledges.

They can either function in a fundamentally adversarial environment, like politics, or they can't.

Of course they can. They have proven that. Doesn't mean that it's OK to call them "bitches" or "cunts" (or to call men "assholes" or "dickwads.") That's not a free speech issue - it's an issue of common courtesy.

Again, I know you don't understand that concept. That's OK. But if you learned a bit about it, perhaps you would not be shocked if people practice it?

 

[billvon]

And those men have the same boss, probably aren't allowed to be adversarial, and are probably hyper-aware of working around a woman. Otherwise, even friends just joking around and giving each other a hard time will call each other "bitch".

Right. Reminds me of the common right wing argument: "I should be able to call a black man "nigger" because I heard a black man call another black man that word!" If you don't call them that, you are a racist and are playing the victim, right? Because you're not treating them like everyone else!

I love that particular right wing argument.

 

[Vociferous]

Free speech is never wrong unless it's a crime, like explicitly threatening or inciting to violence or panic. "Wrong", in the sense of offending someone's delicate sensitivities, is a subjective moral judgement, at best.

You just contradicted yourself in two sentences.

You have a right to free speech. You can use it to walk around in a crowd, find disabled veterans and shout "fuck your so called sacrifice!" to every disabled vet you see. You might argue that this is protected speech; you could probably convince a court of this. It is also wrong.

I know you don't understand that. That's OK.

There's no contradiction in legal not being synonymous with moral. In terms of a legal right, "wrong" is only what's illegal. Hence the differentiation.
But I doubt you can comprehend that, as you seem pretty clueless about rights altogether.

Nope. Not even close. Once again, you have no rebuttal to my argument, so you make up a position you CAN argue with.

If you don't want to force your own morals on others, all this is just useless whining or preaching.

You asked if "they require special considerations, to make accommodations for their unique sensitivities." Those are special privledges.

I guess you missed the alternative there. What am I saying, of course you did. You're the king of only cherry-picking the bits you think you can manage to argue.

Of course they can. They have proven that. Doesn't mean that it's OK to call them "bitches" or "cunts" (or to call men "assholes" or "dickwads.") That's not a free speech issue - it's an issue of common courtesy.

Again, I know you don't understand that concept. That's OK. But if you learned a bit about it, perhaps you would not be shocked if people practice it?

Again, you're conflating two different things. Legality is not morality nor courtesy. Only the legal obligates anyone. You may not like it. That's OK. Adults have to learn that the real world is not always as nice as they'd like. Just means you're growing up.

Right. And you should be able to call a black man "nigger" because you heard a black man call another black man that word, right? If you don't use it it's because you are a racist and are playing the victim.

I love that particular right wing argument.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Consider the bar lowered

there is a difference between lowering the bar and lowering the bar so you can simply kick it out of the way
it appears that USA morality(Christians right wing liberals and many democrats) is still arguing if there should be any bar at all

so much for family values

they just want a bar they can use as a gate to stop others from having rights and then remove when ever they want to go and interfere with someone elses life

"my bar is for beating others with, not for learning to jump higher"

 

[Vociferous]

And those men have the same boss, probably aren't allowed to be adversarial, and are probably hyper-aware of working around a woman. Otherwise, even friends just joking around and giving each other a hard time will call each other "bitch".

Right. Reminds me of the common right wing argument: "I should be able to call a black man "nigger" because I heard a black man call another black man that word!" If you don't call them that, you are a racist and are playing the victim, right? Because you're not treating them like everyone else!

I love that particular right wing argument.

As usual, it's the ones that rail the most against racism that end up being the ones using racial slurs. If you think it's okay to write it, without any asterisks, I presume you'd feel just as free to say it, in the same context. Or maybe you just think that you have a completely white audience here. I don't know. Regardless, I've never made that argument. Unlike "bitch", I've never heard white men call each other n****r. Maybe you know white guys that use that slur more. Well, the company you keep...

 

[pjdude1219]

I've never heard white men call each other n****r.

i have. ive been called that. also had my ginger cat called that.