Equal pay for women in sports?

[RainbowSingularity]

In reading up on this, it would seem that their main interest lies in getting the WNBA to share more of the overall revenue income with the players, with an increase in salary. The average salary is under $100k, that seems pretty low considering that the annual revenue for the WNBA is well into the millions.

like running a brothel in a very poor city that borders a national border and only employing girls who have just had their 18th birthday

its all very legal
you pay them minimum wage and make them fight among themselves to do extra work for free
telling them that one day ... they will get a shot at the big time and be able to earn some real money...

and then roll a ball out into the middle of the room...

notice that with the usa women winning the world Soccer title, everyone is now talking about the basketball instead to try and change the subject.

soo pathetic

thats because they dont want to talk real viewer numbers of the womens world cup because that will show the women should be getting paid more.

narcissistic readers... its not just an American problem, its a global human evolutionary problem

 

[Seattle]

My argument is that your arguments - to wit:

If I pay you to write a song, should I pay you the same amount I would pay Paul McCartney?
Lebron James gets paid millions of dollars a year by Nike for his endorsement.
I'll endorse Nike but I won't get paid millions of dollars a year. Do I have the makings of a discrimination lawsuit against Nike?

are neither relevant nor applicable to a dispute between players and their league over disbursment of revenues.



Okay. I have no idea how much they make or lose. My argument is that if a business is failing, it is the failure of the owners and decision-makers of that business, not the failure of their employees. If they can't afford to hire professionals at the standard rate of pay for that profession, they shouldn't be in business.


By setting them free to work for someone who can run the business successfully and pays fairly.

There isn't a "standard rate" for women's basketball for example. It depends on how much demand there is for people to watch it. Professional skateboarders make a lot less than professional basketball players. Is this because the owners aren't running their businesses well? No. It's because men's basketball is more popular than men's skateboarding.

Men's basketball is also much more popular than women's basketball.

In the case of soccer, in the U.S. there is a case to be made that woman's soccer is more popular and they have more of a case. The women's basketball case isn't very strong.

 

[Jeeves]

There isn't a "standard rate" for women's basketball for example.

Is there a standard rate for basketball?

It depends on how much demand there is for people to watch it.

Is that a rule for all professional sports? If so, is there an official measure of spectatorship according to which the pay rate goes up or down quarterly or annually or something? Or is this a rule only in basketball, or only in women's basketball -
or did you just make that rule up?

Professional skateboarders make a lot less than professional basketball players.

Are both sports regulated by the same oversight board? Are these two sports even related?
Or are you just dragging in even more irrelevant comparisons?

Men's basketball is also much more popular than women's basketball.

So you keep telling us.
Does this, in any way, relate to skateboarding, tennis our curling?We could also talk about baseball and bobsledding, I guess; we could compare number of attendees at the actual contests, and television ratings, sponsorship and advertising contracts, brand recognition, magazine and movie rights...

In the case of soccer, in the U.S. there is a case to be made that woman's soccer is more popular and they have more of a case. The women's basketball case isn't very strong.

So nobody will notice if they go on strike?
I'm okay with that, so long as the owners, managers, venues, publicists, broadcaster and agents - all the people who ride free on the players' effort - also lose their income.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

If so, is there an official measure of spectatorship according to which the pay rate goes up or down quarterly or annually or something?

the lie is uncovered ...
but the public WANT to believe the lie
it helps them buy their nikes

tariffs! just do it !

how you may well ask ?
price limit tariffs for foreign made products.
shoes made outside the usa over the price of $70.00 per pair attract a 35% tarrif.
easy !

 

[Seattle]

Is there a standard rate for basketball?

Is that a rule for all professional sports? If so, is there an official measure of spectatorship according to which the pay rate goes up or down quarterly or annually or something? Or is this a rule only in basketball, or only in women's basketball -
or did you just make that rule up?


Are both sports regulated by the same oversight board? Are these two sports even related?
Or are you just dragging in even more irrelevant comparisons?


So you keep telling us.
Does this, in any way, relate to skateboarding, tennis our curling?We could also talk about baseball and bobsledding, I guess; we could compare number of attendees at the actual contests, and television ratings, sponsorship and advertising contracts, brand recognition, magazine and movie rights...


So nobody will notice if they go on strike?
I'm okay with that, so long as the owners, managers, venues, publicists, broadcaster and agents - all the people who ride free on the players' effort - also lose their income.

Where do you live that there is a "standard rate" for basketball? Or for movie stars or for anything with attendance figures? If WNBA goes on strike there is no revenue and so all those people you mentioned would lose revenue as well. How could they not?

Striking isn't much of an option for WNBA however. No one goes to their games in the first place. That's the problem.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Or for movie stars

lol

professional sports millionaire players are now movie stars who cant take a knee during the national anthem ?

lack of creative arts ?

deliberate & convenient blurring of the boundaries ? or poorly illustrated point ?

 

[Jeeves]

Where do you live that there is a "standard rate" for basketball?

I've never heard of one. But you said

There isn't a "standard rate" for women's basketball

so I wondered whether there was one for regular basketball, and how was it set. You also asserted, a couple of times, that players' pay was tied to the size of the audience, so I asked how that's measured, and whether the salaries of non-female players also go up and down according to the number of people watching them.

Or for movie stars

I don't know about 'stars' - they would be the exception, rather than the rule. Regular film, television and stage actors all have professional associations, and I'm morally certain they don't set different standards for male and female performers, based on the assumption that the audience for 'chick-flicks' is not as large as the one for action movies, or the popcorn sales or the shampoo commercials they might do later.

If WNBA goes on strike there is no revenue and so all those people you mentioned would lose revenue as well.

Well, that's all right then. Might even have to refund the price of those not-so-many tickets, I expect.

Striking isn't much of an option for WNBA however. No one goes to their games in the first place. That's the problem.

Doesn't that make you wonder how any of those people - managers, owners, venues, publicists, ticket-sellers, athletes - have survived long enough to have this problem? 'Tis a puzzlement!

 

[Seattle]

I've never heard of one. But you said

so I wondered whether there was one for regular basketball, and how was it set. You also asserted, a couple of times, that players' pay was tied to the size of the audience, so I asked how that's measured, and whether the salaries of non-female players also go up and down according to the number of people watching them.

The NBA players salaries do go up as the revenues go up. When a new TV deal begins the cap for spending goes up and players get 50% of revenues.

Many movie stars have a "piece of the action" and do make more money when a movie does well and make less money when a movie doesn't do well.

If you are a regular employee, you get your salary. The WNBA players are getting their contacted salary. To get more, the WNBA would have to generate money money.

Doesn't that make you wonder how any of those people - managers, owners, venues, publicists, ticket-sellers, athletes - have survived long enough to have this problem? 'Tis a puzzlement!

No, it doesn't make me wonder that. The owners are the owners of the NBA. They were trying to see if there was interest in starting the WNBA. They have been losing about $10 million a year for 22 years on this experiment. Managers get a percent of whatever the client makes. Venues get paid as do ticket-sellers. Those expenses are part of why there are losses for the owners.

 

[wegs]

But again, the argument they’re making I think has more to do with wanting a greater share of the league’s revenue. If the average player is earning under $100k, but they WNBA is bringing in over $50 million annually, it’s not unreasonable to expect a higher salary. The popularity of the sport doesn’t matter if the players are asking for a larger cut of the current revenue.

It could also be a statement of principle. Historically, women have been paid less in general, than men in most jobs - performing the same jobs. The wage gap is shrinking, but making a statement isn't that unusual given the history.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

managers, owners, venues, publicists, ticket-sellers, athletes

No, it doesn't make me wonder that. The owners are the owners of the NBA. They were trying to see if there was interest in starting the WNBA.

where does the bulk of the money come from ?
Media paying rights through add agencies to have rights to sell to those who pay for cable TV.

explain how ticket prices directly effect that Massive and dominating majority share of income ?

do "ticket sales" suddenly create a value that all Professional sports people should be paid for ?
what about games when almost no one turns up ?
should they receive nothing for that week/month ?

how much are the female cheerleaders being paid to perform professionally in front of those massive crowds ?
Professional female cheer leaders are there for pornography for the men.
why should they not be paid equally to strippers of around $2000.00 per game performance each ?

The reason they are not being paid equally to sex performers is because they are being exploited for their gender and disrespected because they are promoted as wanting to be looked at sexually... ?

 

[Seattle]

But again, the argument they’re making I think has more to do with wanting a greater share of the league’s revenue. If the average player is earning under $100k, but they WNBA is bringing in over $50 million annually, it’s not unreasonable to expect a higher salary. The popularity of the sport doesn’t matter if the players are asking for a larger cut of the current revenue.

It could also be a statement of principle. Historically, women have been paid less in general, than men in most jobs - performing the same jobs. The wage gap is shrinking, but making a statement isn't that unusual given the history.

I get your point and agree in part although if I worked for a company that was losing money, I probably wouldn't be suing them for more money.

It's just a poor way to make a statement also, in the case of the WNBA. You have to have some basis for your salary. I can't paint a painting and complain that it didn't sell for as much as a Rembrandt even though we both are painters and spent just as much time painting.

Some on here would agree that my agent should be fired because he isn't doing his job and that it has nothing to do with me.

Picking athletics isn't the best career for fighting for the equality of the sexes. It would be like white dudes suing because all the black dudes are getting the best jobs in the NBA.

 

[Jeeves]

What are the actual numbers?
What are the salaries of non-athletes - agents, publicists, organizers, managers - who work directly in Women's Basketball
--- not the movies, not in skateboarding, not in pop music ---
What are the salaries of the players?
How do the earnings break down by percentage?

 

[Seattle]

What are the actual numbers?
What are the salaries of non-athletes - agents, publicists, organizers, managers - who work directly in Women's Basketball
--- not the movies, not in skateboarding, not in pop music ---
What are the salaries of the players?
How do the earnings break down by percentage?

You can Google as easily as I can.

The agents don't work directly for the league and they don't work for just one client so they usually get a percentage. No one makes much money in the WNBA because it isn't profitable. It should probably just be shut down as an experiment that didn't work.

 

[Jeeves]

You can Google as easily as I can.

But you've been sounding so certain, as if you already knew.

The agents don't work directly for the league

Right. And if they can't make it worth their while, they stop working. So do salesmen. Executives usually work on salary, whether they're running the business in the red or black, so they don't mind losing money for - did you say 20 years? That sounds excessively long even for a CEO way over his incompetence level.

There may be many reasons for a show business venture to fail. If the show is unpopular, it flops, everybody concerned is out of a job, and the investors lose their money. The performers and stage crew still usually get paid for the shows they worked.
If all basketball players' and executives' monetary compensation is a predetermined percent of the box office receipts and tv rights, and they've received the agreed share, then they don't have a case --- unless the executives get an unfairly larger share than the talent; if so, they have a case for renegotiating the terms.

 

[sculptor]

The top salary at the u of iowa is for the football coach at $5,000,000.
Only nine nfl coaches make more, and 9 college football coaches make more too.

 

[Jeeves]

The top salary at the u of iowa is for the football coach at $5,000,000.
Only nine nfl coaches make more, and 9 college football coaches make more too.

Does this affect women's basketball, or the compensation of players compared to non-players?
Sports in general, maybe?
One could make an argument that a team can play, perhaps even win, in the absence of a coach. But there is no possibility that a coach can put on any kind of game without players.
So, which is more important? The farther removed from the performing talent, the less essential personnel become: by the time you get to CEO's, they're completely superfluous to the show (never seen by an audience) and yet tend to have the highest pay-rate.
Not unlike every other business.

 

[Bowser]

Wow, I have no opinion on this. I suppose that if I actually watched women's sports...

 

[Jeeves]

Wow, I have no opinion on this. I suppose that if I actually watched women's sports...

Try it sometime. Nicer legs, fewer tats, not so much of the falling-on-the-knees to cross themselves, not so much histrionics over every boo-boo, and way less time-wasting argument with the referee.
Of course, that's soccer. I don't watch any kind of basketball: Bo. Ring.

 

[Bowser]

Try it sometime. Nicer legs, fewer tats, not so much of the falling-on-the-knees to cross themselves, not so much histrionics over every boo-boo, and way less time-wasting argument with the referee.
Of course, that's soccer. I don't watch any kind of basketball: Bo. Ring.

Not much of a sports guy in general. Will watch it if someone has it on tv.

 

[Tiassa]

From what I’ve read, it seems it’s about the principle of not being paid as much as NBA players, but reality needs to set in that they will get paid salaries comparable to men when their games bring in the same advertising dollars, ticket sales, etc.

The underlying effort to manufacture that market is what it is; the men are overpaid, to begin with, and we should remember that for whatever we teach children about integrity, sportsmanship, and character, the business end corrupts the integrity of the game for financial reasons. In the end, sport is a market industry. Toward that end, the NBA, especially, could try to force the issue by scaling up WNBA marketing efforts.

But there are also prejudicial attitudes. Remember that in soccer, the U.S. Women's National Team won the World Cup in 2015; the men got paid more for achieving the quarterfinals than the women got for winning. Additionally, this is how deep the disrespect goes: USWNT was slated to host China in Hawaii, in December, 2015. Normally, when the men's team is scheduled to play, U.S. Soccer dispatches an advance team to ensure the game field, practice facilities, and player accommodations meet standard. They did not do that for the Women's National Team. The practice field was in such poor condition as to cause injuries, including Rapinoe's ACL tear. The game field was in dangerous condition, as well; the game was canceled.

That's how U.S. Soccer treated the World Cup-winning Women's National Team, on their victory tour.

Reminder from the private sector: The Concacaf Gold Cup was taking place during the World Cup. Big deal. So, my cable provider has a little feature built into the remote that brings up sports listings, including current scores, onscreen at the touch of a button. The Women's World Cup, obviously, is a big feature for the cable company. And under the Women's World Cup, the teams are listed as their country's women: USA Women vs. England Women. Same system, under Soccer, the men are simply listed by nation: USA vs. Curaçao.

By the fact of their consistent success, USWNT is the U.S. National Team, but markets don't really run on merit.

It's time for curling to save American sport.