Evidence that God is real

Discussion in 'Religion' started by James R, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    That's how science works. It is always still working on its arguments. It is always assailable. But saying that abiogenesis is indefensible is as silly as saying that evolution is indefensible. It was once, until the evidence was collected. Give us a chance to collect the evidence before you proclaim things impossible.
     
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  3. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    Sorry, but I couldn't find a "Made By God" sticker anywhere on my person. However, science says I'm a product of evolution and abiogenesis so it looks like you still have yet to provide any evidence of God. Or, do you have anything else that can't be explained by science?
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    The Giant's Causeway was once considered proof that Man was not alone on the planet, and that giants roamed the Earth as well.

    Now, of course, we know how the Causeway was formed - and it wasn't due to giants.
     
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  7. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    I’m pretty sure you would not accept any of the evidence I have. I think you would just offer scientific theory, and equal it to fact as the answer to anything.

    My Dad was healed, from a debilitating condition and never had to have surgery. There is the first one you will throw out the window. Right? No I am not going to prove it to you.

    Another would be the existence of real Love, and real objective Evil. Naturalism teaches that neither of these exist.

    Another... would be evidence for God on the Earth today from events and miracles which took place in the past. More evidence for you to throw out the window.
     
  8. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    I will check it out more.
     
  9. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    Since you've provided none thus far, you probably don't have any to offer.

    If science can explain something, why should I ignore that in favor of an invisible super being that's never been shown to exist?

    I have no idea what that has to do with anything we're talking about.

    That is also irrelevant to the discussion.

    Alleged miracles are not evidence of anything, you're just invoking magic now.

    I can see that your s0-called evidence for God are some of the weakest reasons that have gone across internet forums as nauseum.

    Clearly, you have absolutely nothing but your vivid imagination and some very weak arguments.
     
  10. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    sideshowbob...

    Evidence; the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

    Not according to the dictionary. Evidence can be obtained via information. For it to be valid it has to have a sound basis in logic or fact. It has to be reasonable, and cogent.

    So I’ll ask again. How do you know WLC’s arguments do not reveal evidence of God?

    Fine. Let’s get back on topic.

    Nobody was even implying that.

    People who are colour cannot see the colours red, green, or blue. Does that mean nobody can.

    You can’t see the evidence because you have blinded yourself from any acceptance of God. That’s what makes an atheist.
    Don’t make me pull out that text!

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    Jan.
     
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Wow. Over 1000 posts in and still no evidence from either Jan or Musika. It's almost like they have nothing, and are hoping that posting enough BS will cover for that.

    (Yazata, thanks for posting your evidence.)
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    That has nothing to do with whether arguments "reveal evidence". They don't.
    Arguments do not reveal evidence.
    WLC's arguments are circular and/or based in assumed falsehood - no evidence appears in his writings.
    It's possible that the inability or refusal to use language that make's sense, a well known symptom of dishonesty and bad faith, is also simply a matter of stupidity.
    It's too bad the story of the Emperor's New Clothes didn't make it into the Bible, where the vulnerable would take it seriously.
     
  13. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    You actually have to say something, first. When someone just blurts out childish comments such as "I am evidence of God's existence" then there isn't much to say to someone who can't form a coherent, adult argument.
     
  14. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Do you think children are stupid?

    Don’t you know you are being disrespectful to someone is being respectful to you?

    You’re the one who is childish.

    Jan.
     
  15. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    Naive, uniformed, one-dimensional and simple minded, yes, but I never said stupid, those are your words.
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Moderator note:

    I have split about 200 posts from this thread off to separate threads. To summarise:

    1. A question was raised as to what evidence there is for abiogenesis. The ensuing discussion is irrelevant to this thread, so has been moved to a separate thread in the Biology forum, here:

    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/evidence-for-abiogenesis.161285/

    2. About 150 off-topic or repetitive posts have been moved to the Off-topic thread, here:

    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/off-topic-posts-from-the-evidence-that-god-is-real-thread.161216

    These include a number of repetitive refusals by Jan Ardena to provide any of the evidence that he claims that William Lane Craig has, along with the repetitive posts from others in response that have continued to highlight that Jan has presented nothing from Craig.

    Also split off are posts from billvon trying to discuss Jan Ardena's beliefs about topics like morality and homosexuality, and related responses.

    Posts whose only content concerns the attitudes of atheists or theists in discussion, or in general, have been split out, except where they also contained on-topic content. There's already a separate thread where the psychology and/or debate tactics of atheists and theists can be discussed. If that topic is of further interest, members are free to create other threads.

    Jan' posts directing repetitive questions to atheists, asking how they define God, how they know what God is, an so on, all of which are off-topic, have been moved too. This thread is for theists to provide evidence for their Gods.
     
  17. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    If God is not controlled by the laws of physics, but in fact controls them, then I think that pretty much cancels out trying to draw any conclusions about God (ie, "demonstrate His existence", as per your no. 1) on the authority of science that has physics at its core.
    Its kind of like first posing the q of whether a type of animal is alive on the planet, and then coming around at number 3 to determine if its a microscopic creature that exists exclusively in small pockets of the deepest parts of the ocean.
    Number 3, either for or against, is going to play a dynamic role in determining number 1.
     
  18. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Specifically, that is how science delivers its "product".
    If you equate a process that is hoped to deliver a product with the actual delivery of a product, you just subjecting the scientific process to your own pathological desires.
    The entire validity of the scientific process rests on resisting the urge to commit to such dishonesty.

    Or gravity is indefensible?
    Or boiling water with heat is indefensible?
    Whereabouts on this slippery slope would you like to make your stand?

    Or alternatively, wait until you have gathered the evidence. If you do it prematurely, you assign it to a category it does not belong and bastardize the scientific process.
    Post dated cheques and empiricism and all that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  19. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Ooooooo SSB I can't give you the evidence because I get the vibe you are closed minded to me

    He is even sorry - not sure if sorry he can't (won't) give you the evidence, or sorry you are closed minded to him

    Try me SetiAlpha6, post your evidence to me. Cross my heart I won't let SSB see ii

    Does that apply to me also?

    I always thought MY existence was evidence of numerous events. Probably the main one my parents had sex

    Well surely you are not saying, in a thread titled "Evidence that god is real" is code for "Proof required god is real"

    So track back please, and point to the moment which lead to my existence.

    The moment you can place a cross next to and exclaim "X Marks the spot which could not happen without god"

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  20. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Most of the doctors I worked with over 40 years of Nursing would ask your dad if they could examine your dad in a effort to find out the process which occurred leading to recovery

    They would do so because if the process was found and shown to be repeatable it surely would help others

    I personally have helped nurse and seen people recover from conditions which I never thought they would survive

    Doubt if any one would put in notes - healed by god

    They might write papers for peer review and to increase understanding of the conditions

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    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  21. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, evidence has to have a basis in logic or fact. That doesn't mean that logic can produce evidence. Logic produces invalid conclusions, even false conclusions, if the premises are not based on fact. Ya gotta have real facts to have real evidence.

    People who are colour blind can still see colours in other ways - e.g. with a spectrometer. We can all see "invisible" colours like infrared and ultraviolet with a spectrometer. Real evidence can be confirmed by different methods, so that everybody can see it.
     
  22. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    No. It's like if we discover that such an animal exists, only then can we learn anything about it's structure, behaviour, etc.
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    That's great! But many humans (evil and good) have recovered from debilitating conditions. We now know how this can happen, through our immune systems and our ability to heal our own bodies. So it's great that your dad got better - but it's not really evidence that God exists.
    ?? Animals exhibit real love, and animals exhibit an ability to tell good from evil. (And animals express both.) This ability increases and decreases depending on sophistication of the neural network they have, and on the socialization provided by their environment and genome (i.e. dogs have a different sense of good and evil than cats because they are pack animals.)
    And yet many miracles (the parting of the Red Sea, coming back from the dead, red tides, eclipses) turn out to have very prosaic explanations.

    If theists could point to a miracle that could have no possible natural explanation (i.e. let's say the Sun disappeared from the Solar System for a day) AND that was somehow predicted by a prophet from a certain religion, that would be an excellent argument. But most miracles are along the lines of "well, he was sick and he got better" and those happen all the time because people heal.
     

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