Evidence for abiogenesis

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by SetiAlpha6, Oct 25, 2018.

  1. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Registered Senior Member

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    Moderator note: This thread was split from the following thread:

    www.sciforums.com/threads/evidence-that-god-is-real.161157
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    What evidence do you have for the creation of life from non-life?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2018
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  3. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    At one time there was only non-life. Now there is life. Ergo, life came from non-life. The only other possibility would be that life always existed.
     
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  5. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Registered Senior Member

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    That is not really enough for me personally.

    Can you give me evidence for how life basically kind of created itself, or came about in any other way, using only the laws of physics?
     
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  7. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Ok, so you have a different kind of "evidence" than what we have for supporting gravity and evolution.
    Should we call it an opinion?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Google Miller-Urey for some examples of complex molecules creating themselves.
     
  9. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Can you give evidence that God did it?

    I think you're biting off more than you can chew. We're asking for evidence that God exists here. If we can establish that He exists, then we can look into whether or not He ever created anything.

    In the meantime, at least we can try to figure out how it could happen by the laws of physics. Belief in God doesn't add anything about the how.
     
  10. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Nope.
     
  11. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Then why talk of the "other possibility"?
     
  12. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    If the complex molecules are not life, what is the relevance?
     
  13. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    The other possibility - that life has always existed - is contrary to the evidence.
     
  14. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Registered Senior Member

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    So, in the meantime, apparently there is no evidence for how the laws of physics could have created life.

    I agree with you!

    In the meantime, until we have that evidence, I vote for the idea, that the laws of physics actually destroy life, in the same ways we observe them to do everyday all around us.
     
  15. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    What is the evidence for that?
    To avoid begging the question, we would hope it's not another opinion.
     
  16. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    There is evidence. It just isn't complete yet. On the other hand, there is no evidence for the existence of God, much less than evidence that He crested anything.

    It isn't a vote.
     
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Because the sequence goes simple molecules -> complex molecules -> complex self replicating molecules -> life.
     
  18. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    The fact that the earth itself has not always existed.
     
  19. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    If the thus created complex molecules you mentioned have never been observed to make the transition to life, why bring it to a discussion primed around the issue of (empirical) evidence?
     
  20. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Are we talking about life or the planet?
     
  21. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Registered Senior Member

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    To me there is evidence for God.

    For you there is not. I get it!

    And today, right now, there is no evidence that life can be created by the laws of physics or by a rock or a molecule of any kind.

    And we know that the laws of physics actually prevent and even destroy life now. That is the evidence we do have.

    So what evidence are you basing your life on and what are you standing on again?
     
  22. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Are you being deliberately obtuse?

    The only place we have evidence of life - so far - is on earth. Earth has not always existed, therefore life has not always existed. Therefore, according to the only evidence we have, life must have come from non-life.
     
  23. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Sure there is. Life is made of the same chemicals as non-life. It's just a different set of reactions. We know a lot about the reactions that cause life. We just don't know the specific path from non-life to life - yet.

    No. We know that the laws of nature DO NOT prevent life because life exists.
     

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