Creationist disputes evolution

[Bells]

We didn’t evolve period.

And all evidence points to our having evolved.

I have to ask, why are you even here, on a science forum?

All this talk of evolution is absurd and uneducated thinking.

And creationism, the belief of a proverbial entity that exists in a place called heaven, having created all life on Earth is not absurd or "uneducated thinking"?

Which makes more sense? Something that has been observed or a belief in a sky Daddy called God creating everything in 7 days?

Darwin’s theory stated that if anyone could prove one or more of his theories was wrong he would admit that he was wrong. Since then we have proved and so has science that evolution is a complete hoax.

Umm..

Since Darwin, we have found more and more evidence of evolution.

The amount of evidence supporting evolution can be stored in a quarter of an average coffin. Hardly enough to prove anything, even the most prominent scientists say the Genesis theory is more plausible then evolution, and that’s from an evolution theorist and many in that field.

Man, you trolls don't even try hard anymore.

Your teeth have always been that way since the beginning, don’t confuse facts with fantasy and ideas that have no proof, just an imagination of a crazy dead guy that was proven wrong so long ago.

Teeth evolved, based mostly on diet.

Why are monkeys still monkeys?

What kind of stupid question is this?

Why wouldn't they be monkeys?

Why isn’t there half human half apes walking around?

Wow..

I’m sure if you believe all this you must believe in stories of Big Foot lol. Such foolishness.

Says the guy advocating genesis..

Discovery channel for those without an education but for me I’m a university student in this field and don’t need to explain to anyone actual facts about Evolutionary theorists.

I do not believe that you are a) a university student or b) that you are studying anything scientific.

It’s ridiculous to think we all came from a 1 in a trillion chance of coming from a primordial soup that that just happened to have formed the most complex organisms in existence. The odds are immense against it. Without all the factors of our position in the universe and the very things we need to exist and thrive is even a greater chance of failure.

Tell that to the dinosaurs.

Life is literally based on chance. From the chance that the sperm will make it to the egg in time, to the chance that the fertilised egg will adhere to the uterus.. To the chance that the cell division will occur properly, to the chance that the zygote and embryo will remain in place and not be expelled, and so on and so forth. The greater majority of fertilised eggs never adhere. Your being here is literally based on chance.. Luck.

How conceited can someone be to believe that their existence, that the Earth's existence, was all somehow pre-ordained. Everything about life is about chance.

The conditions were right for those singled celled organism to survive and evolve. That is how we came to be. Chance, luck and the right conditions.

I was once told by a evolutionist that it’s like covering the State of Taxes in 3 layers of coins and only marking one with a scratch, then walking to any random location and picking up the one and only coin and getting it the first time. The odds are astronomical against it.

And yet, here we are.

And we can all perish at anything that comes our way. You know, chance..

 

[iceaura]

I don’t know, Discovery channel for those without an education but for me I’m a university student in this field

What field?
Hundred bucks says you can't state the currently established Darwinian Theory of Evolution in your own words.

The Theory of Evolution will never become a law of science because it is wrought with errors. This is why it is still called a theory, instead of a law.

You don't even know what a scientific theory is, or what it's for.
Are you paying good money for this "university education"?

Only one the CRS's 2015-16 board of directors is qualified in biology.

This is America. About a third of American high school biology teachers - most of whom have four year university degrees with at least some focused instruction in biology - believe in Special Creation of some kind.

One common workaround is something I encountered in the faculty of biological science at Cornell University
- a university of high repute, and significant achievement, in biology and related fields; a professor with tenure and a PhD and significant publication -
which amounted to evolution for everything except human beings.

Human beings required Divine Intervention. The rest of the biological world - including the birds that were this guy's specialty - evolved.

That general pattern - evolution accepted in one's own field, denied elsewhere - is common.

 

[exchemist]

And all evidence points to our having evolved.

I have to ask, why are you even here, on a science forum?


And creationism, the belief of a proverbial entity that exists in a place called heaven, having created all life on Earth is not absurd or "uneducated thinking"?

Which makes more sense? Something that has been observed or a belief in a sky Daddy called God creating everything in 7 days?


Umm..

Since Darwin, we have found more and more evidence of evolution.


Man, you trolls don't even try hard anymore.


Teeth evolved, based mostly on diet.


What kind of stupid question is this?

Why wouldn't they be monkeys?


Wow..


Says the guy advocating genesis..


I do not believe that you are a) a university student or b) that you are studying anything scientific.


Tell that to the dinosaurs.

Life is literally based on chance. From the chance that the sperm will make it to the egg in time, to the chance that the fertilised egg will adhere to the uterus.. To the chance that the cell division will occur properly, to the chance that the zygote and embryo will remain in place and not be expelled, and so on and so forth. The greater majority of fertilised eggs never adhere. Your being here is literally based on chance.. Luck.

How conceited can someone be to believe that their existence, that the Earth's existence, was all somehow pre-ordained. Everything about life is about chance.

The conditions were right for those singled celled organism to survive and evolve. That is how we came to be. Chance, luck and the right conditions.


And yet, here we are.

And we can all perish at anything that comes our way. You know, chance..

This person is patently not who he (and it will be a he) claims to be. The ignorance almost amounts to a self-parody of a creationist.

I suspect he will prove to be a seagull poster - a few splodges of crap on the forum and then aak, aak, off to the next location.

 

[exchemist]

What field?
Hundred bucks says you can't state the currently established Darwinian Theory of Evolution in your own words.

You don't even know what a scientific theory is, or what it's for.
Are you paying good money for this "university education"?

This is America. About a third of American high school biology teachers - most of whom have four year university degrees with at least some focused instruction in biology - believe in Special Creation of some kind.

One common workaround is something I encountered in the faculty of biological science at Cornell University
- a university of high repute, and significant achievement, in biology and related fields; a professor with tenure and a PhD and significant publication -
which amounted to evolution for everything except human beings.

Human beings required Divine Intervention. The rest of the biological world - including the birds that were this guy's specialty - evolved.

That general pattern - evolution accepted in one's own field, denied elsewhere - is common.

I can sort of understand why divine intervention to imbue Man with a soul might be part of a Christian's view of creation. But I would not imagine a claim that the biology was tinkered with would be seriously believed by someone at that level - certainly not at a place like Cornell.

Your stats on biology teachers are rather sobering, I must say.

 

[Michael 345]

don’t confuse facts with fantasy and ideas that have no proof, just an imagination of a crazy dead guy that was proven wrong so long ago.

Your talking about J C as the dead guy correct?

 

[Michael 345]

Only one the CRS's 2015-16 board of directors is qualified in biology. I can't find a record of who is on the board now.

The agency is governed by a Board of Directors consisting of 13 clergy (most of them bishops) and 10 lay people.[3]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Relief_Services

Who is on the board here

https://www.crs.org/about/leadership/board-directors

Not gone through their qualifications

Coffee time

 

[Michael 345]

Why isn’t there half human half apes walking around?

If you let me know if you walk I should be able to answer

 

[Michael 345]

It’s ridiculous to think we all came from a 1 in a trillion chance of coming from a primordial soup that that just happened to have formed the most complex organisms in existence

we all came from a 1 in a trillion chance of coming from a primordial soup
..........most complex organisms in existence

It's probably greater but we can go with 1 in a trillion

Soooo please give the chance of a Sky Daddy hanging around eternally before PING light bulb moment "I'll make a Universe"

Has to be less than 1 in a trillion correct?

What's your estimate?

 

[Randwolf]

I have had this conversation a thousand times

So have we. It's amazing that any of us still bother to debunk this BS - personally I no longer find it worth the effort.

Please, do carry on for the entertainment value...

 

[iceaura]

The agency is governed by a Board of Directors consisting of 13 clergy (most of them bishops) and 10 lay people.[3]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Relief_Services

Not those guys.
These guys: https://creationresearch.org
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_Research_Society

 

[Michael 345]

At first I thought Truth might be a photocopy Jan

But this one seems happy to post fake truth. It is, at a very basic level, claiming it as truth or evidence about god from the god of gaps camp along with personal increduality

Makes a difference from stonewall god is

However the response from Truth do appear to indicate a tone deafness to evidence

Why am I not surprised

 

[iceaura]

Your stats on biology teachers are rather sobering, I must say

From years of these kinds of reports:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13930-16-of-us-science-teachers-are-creationists/

When Berkman’s team asked about the teachers’ personal beliefs, about the same number, 16% of the total, said they believed human beings had been created by God within the last 10,000 years.

Mind, that is 1 in 7 who are "young" creationists - not just Divine Intervention over geological time, which is more common yet, but complete and miraculous de novo creation of a First Man and a First Woman almost within recorded history.

And it's country wide - Minnesota has some of the nation's best schools and highest teacher standards, with a population better educated (at least, more credentialed) than national average, but even so: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/science/08creationism.html

“These kinds of data have been reported regionally, and in some cases nationally, for decades. Creationists are in the classroom, and it’s not just the South,” he said. “At least 25 percent of high school teachers in Minnesota explicitly teach creationism.

No biology teacher is required to teach creationism in a Minnesota public high school. It's voluntary.

 

[Michael 345]

Not those guys.
These guys: https://creationresearch.org
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_Research_Society

OK

You really do need to stack any organisation if you are going to require everyone to be in lockstep

Strange they can find others outside of the organisation to fit in

I wonder how much of donations collected go towards
*****
Catholic Relief Services carries out the commitment of the Bishops of the United States to assist the poor and vulnerable overseas. We are motivated by the Gospel of Jesus Christ to cherish, preserve and uphold the sacredness and dignity of all human life, foster charity and justice, and embody Catholic social and moral teaching as we act to:

PROMOTE HUMAN DEVELOPMENT by responding to major emergencies, fighting disease and poverty, and nurturing peaceful and just societies;

https://www.crs.org/about/mission-statement

****

and how much goes to the board plus others on creation research?

How can you even do that? Or is the research just a rehash of statements which in essence say "it cannot happen like that (evolution)"?

 

[iceaura]

American context, the most religious of the First World industrial countries:
https://slate.com/technology/2015/0...us-students-cant-learn-natural-selection.html

To understand the effects of these state education policies, Rissler examined data from questionnaires completed by 2,999 students from the University of Alabama. - -
- - - -
- - - “The more religious are less scientifically literate,” she said. “The data are clear on this. It’s just that people don’t like to hear it.”

Rissler also surmised that educators who teach both creationism and evolution “are doing more harm than teaching the students nothing.” Her data show that students who were never taught evolution—their teachers skipped it—performed better on tests of both knowledge and acceptance than those students who learned about both evolution and creationism in high school.

 

[iceaura]

You really do need to stack any organisation if you are going to require everyone to be in lockstep

?
The Creation Research Society is not the same organization as the Catholic Relief Services.

 

[Michael 345]

?
The Creation Research Society is not the same organization as the Catholic Relief Services.

Got it

Cheers

 

[exchemist]

The agency is governed by a Board of Directors consisting of 13 clergy (most of them bishops) and 10 lay people.[3]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Relief_Services

Who is on the board here

https://www.crs.org/about/leadership/board-directors

Not gone through their qualifications

Coffee time

As Iceaura points out, it is another CRS. Your link is to the Catholic Relief Services organisation, a charitable group.

(The Catholic Church does not promote creationism.)

 

[iceaura]

(The Catholic Church does not promote creationism.)

Not officially, any more.
In practice, the Catholic faithful are almost as likely to be creationists of some kind as Muslims and Protestants.
And this is not a mystery, as the Catholic Church has yet to fully acknowledge evolutionary theory or even the fact of evolutionary change beyond "microevolution": http://www.catholicbridge.com/catholic/catholic-creationism.php

Darwin was a biologist and his theories are biological. Evolution is not a fact, but a set of theories. Some of the theories are very compelling, such as fossil records and observed micro evolution within species, while other aspects of evolutionary theory have been proved wrong by science itself. The irreducible complexity of each species is something modern science has been unable to explain. - -

In 2008, Professor Michael Heller (Kracow, Poland) is a cosmologist and Catholic priest won the Templeton Prize for Science and religion. He was a friend and confident of Pope John Paul II and an avid proponent of an old earth.

Polygenism runs into serious theological difficulties when we consider the implications of original sin and its transference through all of humanity. If there were a group of people in the beginning of time and only two of them made the mistake of eating apple. Then God's judgment against humanity would be unjust, because not all human beings would have spawned off of the two who made the errors. - - - -
- - - As it stands, polygenism cannot be taught safely.

We teach monogenism, that Adam and Eve were indeed our first parents. Catholic scientists and theologians are free to grapple with these difficult questions in their individual research. However, it would be considered wrong to teach it, because it has a moral impact on the faith and the nature of sin.

This actually ties into the thread - nerves in teeth explained by God's direction and enacted will, or Adam's sin, are much differently explained than those explained within the frame of Darwinian evolutionary theory.

 

[exchemist]

Not officially, any more.
In practice, the Catholic faithful are almost as likely to be creationists of some kind as Muslims and Protestants.
And this is not a mystery, as the Catholic Church has yet to fully acknowledge evolutionary theory or even the fact of evolutionary change beyond "microevolution": http://www.catholicbridge.com/catholic/catholic-creationism.php




This actually ties into the thread - nerves in teeth explained by God's direction and enacted will, or Adam's sin, are much differently explained than those explained within the frame of Darwinian evolutionary theory.

You are right that the Catholic Church has yet to acknowledge that Man is not descended from a single original couple. But this, wrong though it is, is not creationism.

 

[iceaura]

But this, wrong though it is, is not creationism.

The teaching is far more compatible with creation than evolution - one original couple, "irreducible complexity", and so forth, are not actually compatible with evolutionary theory or biological fact as currently established within that theory.
And so we find Catholic creationists in the large majority, just as Protestant and Muslim creationists are, in their respective religions.