Adult Aspergers - does it have evolutionary advantages?

[spidergoat]

Agreed, hence my retraction

Sorry, I missed that. While I think it serves a purpose to be positive about our abilities, being autistic can be very difficult, and it's not all the fault of society. We can't necessarily get along with those of our kind. Or even do well completely alone.

 

[Seattle]

Nope.

Next question?

I wonder if the "God" particle is God?

 

[Tiassa]

I wonder if the "God" particle is God?

Silly rabbit, everybody knows that the "God" particle is chocolate.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Not sure what I said that gave you rise to conclude that? Regardless, you are incorrect.

In hindsight me asking if it was an 'evolutionary' advantage was a poor choice ... my bad.

around & around ?

 

[DaveC426913]

your still thread jacking

No, I'm expressing some "Free Thoughts".

Tiassa pointed that out, and you 'liked' it.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

No, I'm expressing some "Free Thoughts".

Tiassa pointed that out, and you 'liked' it.

indeed you are right
i am glad we are not talking about abreviated subtext.
that would become confusing.

 

[ToR original]

I would note RainbowSingularity's↑ point about spectral locus, and in that context suggest two considerations:

(1) Compared to the range of the spectrum, and presuming at least some undiagnosed spectral dysfunction in the representative population, looking for specific diagnoses might well discover an uncooperative marketplace.

(2) Remember that the high-functioning range of the spectrum you are appealing to includes blocs presenting diverse exhibits of disrupted socialization and outright antisociability; this might be an important factor affecting projections of marketplace response.​

Evolutionary considerations in behavioral and cognitive diagnostics makes a fascinating subject, but even when I come across actual social scientists discussing these aspects, it's a very quick transition to what those advantageous outcomes describe in terms of comparative environments. And it's generally dystopian.

One grim analogy is that in the electroghostly cyberfuture we see projected in manga and anime, these people will become labor cogs so dehumanized by necessity of societal function that they will provide the transitional shells for improving humanity. They will be our lab rats for how to enhance the human body so that it might perform commercial labor more efficiently.

Well, them and migrant children.

Thank you, and what a scary prospect!

"One grim analogy is that in the electroghostly cyberfuture we see projected in manga and anime, these people will become labor cogs so dehumanized by necessity of societal function that they will provide the transitional shells for improving humanity. They will be our lab rats for how to enhance the human body so that it might perform commercial labor more efficiently."

For those I suppose at the lesser end of the spectrum (I can't speculate re those I can't relate to) I doubt they'd ever be coerced into being anyones labor, what with their general disregard for heirarchys and lack of ability to follow unreasonable, illogical or self serving instructions. I myself was always quickly promoted to Management when I worked in the system because I had qualities that made me a poor 'subservient' employee and an excellent time management, cost reducing, income improving , risk reducing manager - a poor people manager, but they didn't seem to mind that! I personally hated ever having to manage 'people' and thus being a 'manager' but I always found myself there. Hence I now enjoy not working with anyone, from home in isolation. Much less stress. But when I towed the line, I was in charge as oppose to being charged. I think this could apply to many of the lower spectrum persons?

Re some medical people saying we're all on the spectrum to some degree - that would be a myth. Apparently you can see differences in brain structure between NT's (neurotypicals) and Aspies. I'd love to see what those are!!
But that said, I would also wonder what came first ... the personality trait followed by changes to brain or brain structure dictating personality as that (contrary to belief) remains a grey area.

I value your insightful, educated opinion thank you.

 

[ToR original]

Sorry, I missed that. While I think it serves a purpose to be positive about our abilities, being autistic can be very difficult, and it's not all the fault of society. We can't necessarily get along with those of our kind. Or even do well completely alone.

It is very difficult ... I'd like to think it could be easier .. some how.
A personal insight (which I generally try to avoid re forum postings but will make an exception)

I attracted a lot of violence as a kid and sometimes as an adult. Reflecting on the frequency and abundance of it, I thought it was the area I lived, but then my friends were not regularly assaulted. I thought it was my 'exuding fear' that encouraged an 'attack response' (as animals react to smell of fear aggressively), I thought it was my 'fate' (I was doomed to be beaten all my life - the big plan, punishment for past crimes or a learning curve?) BUT now I know it is simply because I was (can still be) incredibly 'annoying'. I stare too long, I don't 'respond' as expected and I never 'run away'. I have no flight mechanism.

Of course being very annoying is NOT an advantage in any regard.
I do though think being honest, direct, a non game player (no head games) being able to see the wood for the trees (because all the trees are quickly seen, counted, assessed and so on ) is an advantage if only society could appreciate that.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Not sure what I said that gave you rise to conclude that? Regardless, you are incorrect.

i will clarify after some back reading as i am fairly sure you do not understand what i meant.
i am suggesting, that you used a word that had emotionalassociation for you. that word meant something to you and you were feeling it.
was it the actual word to describe what you were talking about ?
as you say maybe not.
however, when i read it, i got the meaning of the feeling from where you were coming from.
a point of highly charged emotional association.

i am not critiquing your intellect. i am addressing something that is common amongst people who think 5 times as fast as they can formulate a sentence while pondering various other things at the same time.

there is a tendency because of the trolling that is quite common, to assume something that you/other members, do not understand to be a negative comment.
that is not the case with me when i am responding, unles i am responding to obvious trolling personal attacks.
which i am making a point of ignoring from now on.(my ignore list is likely to grow expidentially.)

Autism spectrum has very strong ties to sevant autistic's whom are some of the brightests minds science has ever seen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_syndrome

as tiassa said above, do not allow yourself to get drawn into comments that detract from discussing the content that you wish to raise as you wil notice there is a large proportion of some societys who wish to claim variant intellectual dispositions are merely a weaknes to be overtly dogmatic & conformist to their own chosen area of control.

hence my reaction to the thread killer post and the subtle miss direction to try and turn the thread topic back in on you rather than talk of the actual science.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

I attracted a lot of violence as a kid and sometimes as an adult. Reflecting on the frequency and abundance of it, I thought it was the area I lived, but then my friends were not regularly assaulted. I thought it was my 'exuding fear' that encouraged an 'attack response' (as animals react to smell of fear aggressively), I thought it was my 'fate' (I was doomed to be beaten all my life - the big plan, punishment for past crimes or a learning curve?) BUT now I know it is simply because I was (can still be) incredibly 'annoying'. I stare too long, I don't 'respond' as expected and I never 'run away'. I have no flight mechanism.

you must protect yourself with distance.
be mindful of it.
"running away" is not as important as understanding places where it is too dangerous to go.

i am aware of media reports of autistic people being murdered by animalistic type of people because they hang around looking to please and are victimised.
or they do not move away when approached by violent people.

i have noted about 3 homicides in the last 5 or soo years in my city.

i am not trying to frighten you. as you say you are the one who has lived through it.

learning is the tool to become safer.. no different to learning to drive a car. often the way in which something is taught can make a vast difference to how you can then align the nature of the data to process and formulate it to become something you may work with. like learning to use a cell phone or computer.

there are people who specialise in this type of teaching. however they are often considered fringe intellectuals or fringe organisations.

they specialise in teaching alternative models of learning. i have spent some years chatting with one of them so know first hand of the nature of their scope and function.
though... their time tends to be taken up by a majority of 10 year old children where the biggest gap in school work is first created and soo the biggest immediate need with lots of funding to pay the costs.


there is light out there, some of which may help light a very cool path for you. keep asserting yourself in a positive manner in your learning about the subject and be picky about whom you emotionally interact with.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

honest, direct, a non game player (no head games) being able to see the wood for the trees (because all the trees are quickly seen, counted, assessed and so on ) is an advantage if only society could appreciate that.

some employers pay well above minimum wage for that type of skill set, however you wil have 90% of employers who will exploit you to under pay you for the talent which they cant get from other workers.

 

[ToR original]

you must protect yourself with distance.
be mindful of it.
"running away" is not as important as understanding places where it is too dangerous to go.

i am aware of media reports of autistic people being murdered by animalistic type of people because they hang around looking to please and are victimised.
or they do not move away when approached by violent people.

i have noted about 3 homicides in the last 5 or soo years in my city.

i am not trying to frighten you. as you say you are the one who has lived through it.

learning is the tool to become safer.. no different to learning to drive a car. often the way in which something is taught can make a vast difference to how you can then align the nature of the data to process and formulate it to become something you may work with. like learning to use a cell phone or computer.

there are people who specialise in this type of teaching. however they are often considered fringe intellectuals or fringe organisations.

they specialise in teaching alternative models of learning. i have spent some years chatting with one of them so know first hand of the nature of their scope and function.
though... their time tends to be taken up by a majority of 10 year old children where the biggest gap in school work is first created and soo the biggest immediate need with lots of funding to pay the costs.


there is light out there, some of which may help light a very cool path for you. keep asserting yourself in a positive manner in your learning about the subject and be picky about whom you emotionally interact with.

I can spot a person with violent and criminal intent from a distance, I seem programmed to do so. I do avoid these people 'like the plague'. I do quite well I feel now .. I definitely don't go out my way to please strangers.

When I've been in a situation I generally freeze as I'm weighing up all the outcomes of certain moves (like a game of chess). And I'm observing their behavior .. often more bemused and intrigued than frightened. None of which have been helpful responses. My best 'response' which 'I've learned' is to 'act' bat shit crazy because even the most violent do not want to mess with bat shit crazy . That would be my advice to anyone outnumbered by violent persons of criminal intent.

 

[ToR original]

i will clarify after some back reading as i am fairly sure you do not understand what i meant.
i am suggesting, that you used a word that had emotionalassociation for you. that word meant something to you and you were feeling it.
was it the actual word to describe what you were talking about ?
as you say maybe not.

Which word? Evolution? It means something in that I think Aspies are more evolved I would wouln't I!! If not this word which one? Generally I only mean exactly what I say (in this case write) and nothing more.

 

[ToR original]

some employers pay well above minimum wage for that type of skill set, however you wil have 90% of employers who will exploit you to under pay you for the talent which they cant get from other workers.

I was on the highest salary for my job role - but yes asking for raises and so on isn't something I've ever been able to do so YES easy to exploit. I found myself doing a whole other 'job' in addition to my existing FT management job once. Even though that whole other job attracted funding for managers salary!

 

[ToR original]

hence my reaction to the thread killer post and the subtle miss direction to try and turn the thread topic back in on you rather than talk of the actual science.

Yes noted and thank you. I was ignoring that person, I don't try to reason with those I've deduced are beyond reason.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Yes noted and thank you. I was ignoring that person, I don't try to reason with those I've deduced are beyond reason.

as some may be noting some subjects may have a better on-point response in the specific forum.
though, i do get the fact that becoming the centre of the discussion is maybe not the desired intent and somewhat subtractive to the nature of interaction desired'on topic'.

 

[ToR original]

as some may be noting some subjects may have a better on-point response in the specific forum.
though, i do get the fact that becoming the centre of the discussion is maybe not the desired intent and somewhat subtractive to the nature of interaction desired'on topic'.

yes, I don't wish to be the subject and I know at some point I will very much regret referring to anything personal pertaining to self, but I will reassure myself I remain 'anonymous'. Sometimes 'personal' is necessary. I made a lot of mistakes in past over divulging, now I think I've gone opposite way. Basically because I haven't properly worked out as yet what is the right way.

Tiassa made a comment re me 'feigning rational response' words to that effect. I am trying to keep it minimal and on topic as my past (dysfunctional) life on this forum taught me I should be 'rational, logical, no ad hom etc. so I'm just applying what I learned posting wise - trying. I could waffle till the cows came home and in the past did.

 

[gamelord]

I have recently been checking out funny Aspergers memes and creating some of my own to lift the doom and gloom on what I think is in the main a positive evolutionary advantage! Not sure how I should 'evidence' that statement as yet. Perhaps you can help? Must be a few Aspies here?

Women are sexual gatekeepers, so whether or not Aspies are a positive mutation is largely dependent on whether or not they are popular among women.

In a sheltered society, genes are no longer filtered based on environmental dangers and hazards, but solely based on their popularity with women. So arguing about whether or not a gene is beneficial in the environment is irrelevant to humans, it mostly has to do with, how well can humans navigate the social ladder in terms of gaining favor with the ladies, as nothing else seems to really matter in terms of gene reproduction. So ask yourself...are aspergians in favor with the ladies.

Then, there is a filtering of the absolutely stupid, such as people who leave loaded guns near their babies, and people who get into car crashes from bad driving, but society wants to shelter these people as well and are making efforts for self-driving cars and more gun safety laws.

 

[ToR original]

Women are sexual gatekeepers, so whether or not Aspies are a positive mutation is largely dependent on whether or not they are popular among women.

In a sheltered society, genes are no longer filtered based on environmental dangers and hazards, but solely based on their popularity with women. So arguing about whether or not a gene is beneficial in the environment is irrelevant to humans, it mostly has to do with, how well can humans navigate the social ladder in terms of gaining favor with the ladies, as nothing else seems to really matter in terms of gene reproduction. So ask yourself...are aspergians in favor with the ladies.

Then, there is a filtering of the absolutely stupid, such as people who leave loaded guns near their babies, and people who get into car crashes from bad driving, but society wants to shelter these people as well and are making efforts for self-driving cars and more gun safety laws.

How does this relate to me? I'm female ..
You seem a tad preoccupied with 'female' dominance. Not very healthy

 

[gamelord]

How does this relate to me? I'm female ..
You seem a tad preoccupied with 'female' dominance. Not very healthy

Most things about this planet are unhealthy.

I'm not sure if what this has to do relates to you specifically. But my preoccupations are somewhat irrelevant from gene theory. What I stated was simply natural selection of genes. To have genes you need to get laid. Its really that simple. So anything to do with genes automatically has to take females into account of the equation.

In some animal species, males have to compete with each other, and win at a fight. Then the female automatically gets horny and breeds with the best fighting male. In other, more brutal species, like lions, the strongest lion visciouslly assaults and exiles the other males and then gets all the females to himself. Then the exiled males turn to the homosexual lifestyle, eventually plotting revenge on the alpha who ruined them, and then once they kill the old alpha, turn hetero again and "live long enough to see themselves become the villian" doing the same thing to the other lions.

Humans are different. Humans are a species which is more cooperative than competitive in the in-group and needs multiple males to run a tribe. So males do not fight each other for a woman, though they still have those tendencies. In humans the male has to gain approval of a woman after courting her usually. Though there are some exceptions, such as dominate alpha males who go back to their animal brains and get females to turn on their animal brains and deactivate their human social brains. But even in that instance, it is still females who are the gatekeepers as the alphas have to be approved by the females.