Are Pharmaceutical Corps. Ethical ?

river said:
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Okay. Then let's put it this way. No fluff:

I would have got intouch with people , researchers that understand these tests . It would have been pointless to do otherwise .
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This is a non answer.

river said:
Hopefully through my mothers insurance , if not , we couldn't .
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About as helpful as a screen door on a fucking submarine.

river said:
Who was recommended by the researchers , although , I'm sure there are compentent people here .
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What ethical medical researcher, in their right mind, would make any recommendation without being able to directly consult the patient in question?

river said:
Magical treatments , irrelevent . There is no magical treatment , just cutting edge treatment .
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What you are suggesting, until it is proven to actually have effect and has been duplicated repeatedly (standard good science) is no different than suggesting magic.

river said:
None that I know of here .
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Less useful than a screen door on a submarine

river said:
Don't know , but I would have started with Dominic P. D’Agostino.
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Again, not useful at all.

River... at this point, I can only guess you either have a serious problem understanding what is being asked of you, or you are simply here to poke the bear. None of what you posted is in any way a specific answer to the specific question asked, nor would any of it have been useful at the time. In fact, most of what you are suggesting would have simply further delayed getting actual, verified treatment that actually had a chance to help.
 
Kittamaru said:
This is a non answer.


About as helpful as a screen door on a fucking submarine.


What ethical medical researcher, in their right mind, would make any recommendation without being able to directly consult the patient in question?


What you are suggesting, until it is proven to actually have effect and has been duplicated repeatedly (standard good science) is no different than suggesting magic.


Less useful than a screen door on a submarine


Again, not useful at all.

River... at this point, I can only guess you either have a serious problem understanding what is being asked of you, or you are simply here to poke the bear. None of what you posted is in any way a specific answer to the specific question asked, nor would any of it have been useful at the time. In fact, most of what you are suggesting would have simply further delayed getting actual, verified treatment that actually had a chance to help.
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kitt

the present paradigm of cancer treatment is not working , I know from my mothers treatments. It didn't work . slowly but surely she deteriorated . she had surgery and chemo. I watched it happen .

hence my attitude towards pharmas .

sure pharmas. have there place , but to explore outside the pharma paradigm , has its place as well .

river
 
river said:
the present paradigm of cancer treatment is not working , I know from my mothers treatments. It didn't work . slowly but surely she deteriorated . she had surgery and chemo. I watched it happen .
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And in many cases it DOES work. No treatment, surgery, regimen or cure is perfect - but they are getting better all the time. And the reason they are getting better is research, development and testing.
 
river said:
the present paradigm of cancer treatment is not working
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While it is by no means successful 100% of the time, my observations tell me that it is MUCH better than it was when I was a kid in the 1960s. Then, cancer was pretty much a death sentence. But I now know MANY survivors of many types of cancer. I personally know 10 people who were diagnosed with cancer in the last 15 years. 9 of them are still with us.

I'm sorry to hear that it was not successful with your mother.
 
river said:
kitt

the present paradigm of cancer treatment is not working , I know from my mothers treatments. It didn't work . slowly but surely she deteriorated . she had surgery and chemo. I watched it happen .

hence my attitude towards pharmas .

sure pharmas. have there place , but to explore outside the pharma paradigm , has its place as well .

river
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Yes, it has its place - I'm 100% with you on that, as I had the exquisite pleasure of watching my grandfather fight (and, thankfully, beat) three different cancers on three different occasions. However, telling someone they "didn't do enough" in regards to the loss of their loved one is a slap in the face. Telling them they shoulda/coulda/woulda is disrespectful, and serves no purpose.

Now, if the research you keep touting has results available, then you can present it as simply as "I'm sorry for your loss; thankfully, this new treatment is on the horizon" and go from there.

That said - again, trying to say that someone should have done this or that, without having damn good evidence that it has worked, is blowing smoke. Telling them that they should have asked a researcher for advise is like telling a man who was just shot during a bank robbery "Well, did you try not getting shot".
 
Kittamaru said:
Yes, it has its place - I'm 100% with you on that, as I had the exquisite pleasure of watching my grandfather fight (and, thankfully, beat) three different cancers on three different occasions. However, telling someone they "didn't do enough" in regards to the loss of their loved one is a slap in the face. Telling them they shoulda/coulda/woulda is disrespectful, and serves no purpose.

Now, if the research you keep touting has results available, then you can present it as simply as "I'm sorry for your loss; thankfully, this new treatment is on the horizon" and go from there.

That said - again, trying to say that someone should have done this or that, without having damn good evidence that it has worked, is blowing smoke. Telling them that they should have asked a researcher for advise is like telling a man who was just shot during a bank robbery "Well, did you try not getting shot".
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Good I'm glad your grandfather beat the odds , but for the majority they don't beat the odds .

go from there .

yeah here we go again , I have apologized already .

and anyway it gets away from my point on my post #125.
 
river said:
Good I'm glad your grandfather beat the odds , but for the majority they don't beat the odds .

go from there .

yeah here we go again , I have apologized already .

and anyway it gets away from my point on my post #125.
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He did beat the odds... only to be taken from us by a stroke/aneurysm that basically left him instantly brain dead with zero prior warning. Was it something that could potentially have been caught and corrected with MRI or other scans? Perhaps - the trouble with playing the "what if" game is, you never win... and forcing others to play it endears you to nobody.
 
Kittamaru said:
He did beat the odds... only to be taken from us by a stroke/aneurysm that basically left him instantly brain dead with zero prior warning. Was it something that could potentially have been caught and corrected with MRI or other scans? Perhaps - the trouble with playing the "what if" game is, you never win... and forcing others to play it endears you to nobody.
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lucky in away , no prolonged suffering.

indeed
 
river said:
lucky in away , no prolonged suffering.

indeed
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Aye, which is one thing we were able to take solace in. It was funny in a way... they said once they took him off life support, he wouldn't last the night. He not only made it through the night, but then the entire next day, long enough for his son to make it up from South Carolina, say his goodbyes, and for the rest of us to have one more dinner together.

He was a phenomenally stubborn old man... but then, I guess that's to be expected from a first generation Italian-American.

... damn I miss him.
 
big pharma
Are they being ethical when lobbying congress for favorable laws?
Are they being ethical when sponsoring political candidates or judges who will be favorable to their business goals?

Perhaps they are being ethical by honoring their fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders.
Do/can we then extrapolate to ethics as/re the greater set 'mankind'?

Is it ethical to offer drugs that save the lives of peoples who are having large families and creating famine by exceeding the carrying capacity of their land?

Are short term ethical behaviors and long term ethical behaviors compatible?
 
sculptor said:
Are they being ethical when lobbying congress for favorable laws?
Are they being ethical when sponsoring political candidates or judges who will be favorable to their business goals?
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No. Why that kind of behavior is even legal - - - -
sculptor said:
Perhaps they are being ethical by honoring their fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders.
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Reasonable possibility, in abstract.
(Pause for reality check)
Nope, not even close. Shareholders partake in the ethical circumstances of their chosen investments, for starters.
sculptor said:
Are short term ethical behaviors and long term ethical behaviors compatible?
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By definition.
 
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river said:
Sure
Pharmas have nothing to do with marijauna .
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I wish they did. It would stop the opioid addiction in a hurry. But Big Pharma is not wont to invest in a substance that you can grow in your back yard. No profit.

But more and more States are relaxing the strict control of marijuana (it is still considered as a class I drug, along with opioid based drugs) It's about time this changed. Colorado is very happy with their newfound source of tax revenue.

Cannabinoids are not physically addictive yet have very similar beneficial effects of certain opioid based medicines. IMO, if medication is indicated and marijuana can provide relief, without the inevitable addiction as a result of regular opioid use, would that not be medically justified?

Please keep in mind that I always advocate moderation in all things.

p.s. look up the word "opium lettuce". It's a misnomer, but you can find it often in your back yard. Never knew or tried it, but someday I'll make me a cup of tea from the leaves of
Wild Lettuce (scientific name Lactuca virosa) is a tall, leafy plant with small bright yellow flowers.It looks similar to prickly lettuce (scientific name Lactuca serriola), with a few differences. The leaves and stems are less spiny, and grow closer together. A member of the lettuce family, wild lettuce grows wild in North America and England. Wild Lettuce is also called bitter lettuce, laitue vireuse, opium lettuce, and rakutu-karyumu-so.

It is known for having mild sedative and pain relieving properties, due to a milky substance called lactucarium which is found in the leaves and stem of the plant. The effects of lactucarium are considered to be similar to opium, though the substance contains no actual opiates. These effects earned wild lettuce the common name of opium lettuce.
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Just to check if the reported properties are true. From what I have read, it has few contra indications.
 
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Write4U said:
I wish they did. It would stop the opioid addiction in a hurry.
Cannabinoids are not physically addictive yet have very similar beneficial effects of certain opioid based medicines.

Please keep in mind that I always advocate moderation in all things.

p.s. look up the word "opium lettuce". It's a misnomer, but you can find it often in your back yard. Never knew or tried it, but someday I'll make me a cup of tea from the leaves of
Just to check if the reported properties are true. From what I have read, it has few contra indications.
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Anyway Write4U , would you want pharmas in control marijuana ?
 
river said:
Anyway Write4U , would you want pharmas in control marijuana ?
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On the contrary, it allows for small (but) licensed businesses to compete with Big Pharma. No patents, no monopoly. Moreover the decision to place it as a Class I drug was a political initiative to begin with and accounts for the lack of in-depth study of the beneficial properties, as well as possible detrimental side-effects.

I find a certain irony in the legality of Alcohol and Nicotine (each with known detrimental health effects and the illegality of a much less dangerous but still effective drug, for some chronic, sometimes debilitating conditions.

As told by the parents of a girl who experienced multiple epileptic episodes every day and had tried every available legal drug to combat the condition, without result, until a friend recommended trying marijuana. In desperation from lack of effective medicines they went to a medical marijuana dispensary and tried the recommended (low THC, high CBD) strain.
As told ( in tears) by the parents, the results were remarkable and the child has now only a few episodes per month. This spurred some growers to start an entirely new industry specializing in the low THC, high CBD content strains, which have been proven effective for a range of mental and physical disorders.

Even in the recreational strains, some strains possess pleasantly relaxing properties allowing for a restful sleep and some strains (sativa) have pleasantly stimulating properties, often used for artistic and other (re)creational purposes..

As I understand it, marijuana is used in Dutch long term care homes (such as for the elderly) to combat depression and/or chronic pain. Seems no one has ever died from an overdose of marijuana. Compare this to the opioid epidemic, which claims lives seemingly everyday.

I have no personal agenda other than as an observation of a very confusing medical situation.
 
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