Antifa, BLM and SJWs vs White Nationalist, Battle of Charlottesville

[Bells]

Yeh, actually, it did.

And then, the counter-protesters saw a good chance for a confrontation and some photo-ops.
And
They succeeded, and now comes the blame game wherein everybody gets to satisfy their ghoulish desire to feast on the bodies of the slain and injured to claim whatever they want as to the motivations of the original protesters, and the folks that came later.

This is idiocy.
Rue the rule of the mob.

So you are claiming that these white supremacists, went out and bought their tiki torches and marched at night, torches held aloft while chanting Nazi slogans and demanding a whites only South, because anti-racist protesters turned up?

That's the excuse you are running with?

What? The only mob that you believe should be ruling are the whites only chanting about blacks and Jews?

I need to ask, what does "blood and soil", Jews and expelling blacks from the South have to do with that statue?

little advice
stay home
Had the counter-protesters stayed home this never would have happened.

Yes, blame the victim.

I mean, it is the victim's fault that white supremacists wanted to kill them and sure, it's the victim's fault that one of them decided to mow them down with his car. If only they had just stayed home and given the white supremacists the run of the town to chant their whites only slogans and give their Nazi salutes and burn their torches...

If the white supremacists had stayed home and festered in their basements, this would never have happened. This is despite the University and the town, not to mention the State literally telling them that they were not welcome there. But yeah, we'll just blame those who opposed them, because god forbid your fellow white supremacists face any counter arguments.

The only rights that should be protected is theirs, right?

Who the hell cares if a bunch of folks with torches want to stay up late and protest the removal of a statue.

Except, they weren't protesting about the statue. Unite the Right and chanting white supremacist slogans, giving Nazi salutes while shouting Nazi slogans about "blood and soil" and blaming Jews is not really about a statue.

I need to ask, what do Jews have to do with the statue? What did the Nazis and their slogans have to do with the statue? What did the chants about expelling black people from the South have to do with the statue?

Look at the sign behind the police officer.. Tell me, how is "Jews are satans children" connected to that statue?

It is about asserting whites only dominance. And hey, who cares about that, right? History has taught us so well about how people who are intimidated into staying home and not speaking out about such ideology are treated..

Who the hell cared if they marched through with their torches in the 1930's in Germany chanting the same damn slogans. Because that ended so well. Just as this one ended so well, eh sculptor? Well, I suppose for you, given the stirring defense you are giving them, perhaps we should not be surprised at your dismissal of the rise of white supremacy and white nationalism in the US and victim blaming.

If they ain't setting anything on fire or committing vandalism they were within their rights.

Except they did and they also ran people down with a car, murdering one.

Oh that's right, it's the brown people's fault for daring to protest against the white supremacist ideology and they should have just stayed home because the only people whose rights should be protected are your fellow white supremacists, wearing their MAGA hats and chanting about "blood and soil", Jews and white dominance and supremacy. Ya, that's all about that statue.

It's interesting that you are only interested in protecting the rights of the white supremacists.

Ah ha but then comes the rule of the mob, and thousands get sucked into thinking that the the photo-ops bespeak a greater social reality.

Oh ha ha, the white supremacist is defending the rights of the violent white supremacists who murdered one and injured many others...

The fact that in your social reality, you are only interested in defending their rights speaks volumes. The fact that in your social reality you are more interested in blaming the victims instead of the perpetrators of the crime, speaks volumes.

 

[sculptor]

If some idiot wants to walk about carrying a swastika or stars and bars and holding his/her arm out in a mock nazi salute , why care.
Just politely ignore the idiot and do something important.

Or, if it is a cluster or crowd of idiots ignore them also.
....................................................
How's the feast going so far?

 

[ElectricFetus]

If some idiot wants to walk about carrying a swastika or stars and bars and holding his/her arm out in a mock nazi salute , why care.
Just politely ignore the idiot and do something important.

Or, if it is a cluster or crowd of idiots ignore them also.
....................................................
How's the feast going so far?

Ok so that is your solution, Bells, what solution do you propose?

 

[Tiassa]

Click for the broken hearts.​

Aaah yes the police are bad, I think I have pointed that out before, what should we do about it? Your never consider a solution, all you do is bitch.

Well, you see, that's the problem: We have all manner of tools, including the ballot box, the picket line, and even the courts. It makes sense that you would overlook these aspects, since you denounce the preservation of human rights as "identity politics".

What is happening is 2 decades of economic stagnation for uneducate white means these people have nothing left to be prideful in then their own skin, and being uneducated morons ideas like the immigrants are at fault for all their problems (instead of the technology and rich) and "build the wall" are very attractive to these people. Now the solution is to educate these people that out sourcing and automation is the cause, not immigrants, provide anti-establishment candidates that are presenting radical solutions to income inequality that these people can believe in, not 'do nothing' establishment candidates they blame for their shit lives. The solution is not to scream "racist" at this people and have counter protests like antifa, that only inflames the problem, only rallies them.

Now Tiassa, what is your solution? You can call me names, but at the end of the day you have no idea what what to do.

Well, the terms on the field are changing; the people demanding and enforcing old ways of doing things are abandoning many of those and blaming everyone else. As the right wing forces everyone else to keep society functioning, part of the solution will come when conservatives who still retain some measure of integrity, some modicum of good faith about principle, will see where the solutions are coming from.

You know individuals who say no, who defy and resist, and when they finally need to admit they're wrong, the cooperative way to lead them out is to pretend they thought of it and praise them for it. But as we've witnessed even with neoconservatism, that only goes so far; remember that part of what isolated the hardliners was the concession to "socialism", insofar as neocons doctrinally acknowledge the need for a well-cultivated social safety net.

I'm largely in an assessment period. Economic security, educational and other opportunity access, and human rights vigilance make nice talking points about how to find our way out of this mess, but the problem with formulating a detailed plan to pitch is the fanaticist rightism dominating Republican and conservative politics. They still don't want to hear it. But like everything else, they will eventually come around, as long as it happens in a manner that allows them to think it's their own idea instead of acknowledging that someone they didn't like might have been correct.

I need midterm data for the strategic assessment; tactically, we're still on the defensive. Generally speaking, in war metaphors, I start with a literary character, whose philosophy on such points is constructed from a strange mix of Von Clausewitz and a stack of Civil War letters and journals. It has a real name in the world, though; I'm just not certain what it is. But the strategic offensive and tactical defensive always works if the opposition is predictable in certain ways, and conservatives presently are. It's possible to encircle them, cut them off completely from their old ways of thinking and doing. Naturally, this will make them uncomfortable, so the big question is when and how the Appeasers will become Collaborators in their campaign against justice.

You know, like your prescription of just giving over. Now all you need to do is find an actual liberal to collaborate with your campaign.

Her name was Heather Heyer. She was thirty-two years old. She is loved, and hearts lie broken today.

We will carry her name, as we carry so many others, as we march the long road toward justice, and even if we somehow reach that day in our lifetimes, we cannot simply set them aside and walk away. We will remember, because look what happens when we forget.

 

[iceaura]

Most of those have not been tried, and also police reform is not a major issue anyways,

Not for you, maybe.

But you will never get your economic reforms without the BLM folks on your side - unless you think 63 million Trump voters are going to grow neurons and learn how to use them.

Talking about police reform on a national level, instead of a local level where it belongs, cost us votes.

Nonsense. That was just the latest tantrum. There is an infinite supply of tantrum material, and fifteen think tanks adding new stuff every week.

They succeeded, and now comes the blame game wherein everybody gets to satisfy their ghoulish desire to feast on the bodies of the slain and injured to claim whatever they want as to the motivations of the original protesters, and the folks that came later.

Oh grow up. The Trump crowd rolled into town to make trouble, they made it. It's all on them, period.

When did grown men start behaving like children? "She made me do it"? No, she didn't. She was behaving normally, and the Trump crowd is a shitshow.

 

[Bells]

If some idiot wants to walk about carrying a swastika or stars and bars and holding his/her arm out in a mock nazi salute , why care.
Just politely ignore the idiot and do something important.

But that isn't what they were doing.

In case you missed the news, one of them drove his car into peaceful counter-protesters who were walking down a quiet street. The rest terrorised the town for a couple of days.

Should we ignore that too and not care?

Oh wait, no, that's right, you blame the victims instead of the perpetrators.

You prefer to blame the victims instead of the white supremacists who did this.

Says a lot about your ideology.

Ok so that is your solution, Bells, what solution do you propose?

Well to start, a President who stops pandering to the white supremacists and who, like sculptor, can't even blame them or call them by name.. actually placing the blame where it belongs and naming them would be a good start.

A President who stops pandering to these people, who calls out their rhetoric each time it crops up in his rallies and connects to him, would also be a good start.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Well, you see, that's the problem: We have all manner of tools, including the ballot box, the picket line, and even the courts. It makes sense that you would overlook these aspects, since you denounce the preservation of human rights as "identity politics".

1. Winning elections is and has been my central argument for years now
2. Random Protests are rarely useful.
3. By all means find a crime to take them to court for.

Well, the terms on the field are changing; the people demanding and enforcing old ways of doing things are abandoning many of those and blaming everyone else. As the right wing forces everyone else to keep society functioning, part of the solution will come when conservatives who still retain some measure of integrity, some modicum of good faith about principle, will see where the solutions are coming from.

So you want to wait for conservatives to see the light on who they have made bed buddies with?

You know individuals who say no, who defy and resist, and when they finally need to admit they're wrong, the cooperative way to lead them out is to pretend they thought of it and praise them for it. But as we've witnessed even with neoconservatism, that only goes so far; remember that part of what isolated the hardliners was the concession to "socialism", insofar as neocons doctrinally acknowledge the need for a well-cultivated social safety net.

I'm largely in an assessment period. Economic security, educational and other opportunity access, and human rights vigilance make nice talking points about how to find our way out of this mess, but the problem with formulating a detailed plan to pitch is the fanaticist rightism dominating Republican and conservative politics. They still don't want to hear it. But like everything else, they will eventually come around, as long as it happens in a manner that allows them to think it's their own idea instead of acknowledging that someone they didn't like might have been correct.

Well a percentage of those people are susceptible to arguments of economic security and opportunity, for example had we elected Bernie in the primary we would not have president trump and an embolden alt-right. If we had a democratic party focused on economic justice we can get back enough voters to win next time (assuming the economy does not improve), demoralizing the alt-righters who would then crawl back to the anus of the internet.

I need midterm data for the strategic assessment; tactically, we're still on the defensive. Generally speaking, in war metaphors, I start with a literary character, whose philosophy on such points is constructed from a strange mix of Von Clausewitz and a stack of Civil War letters and journals. It has a real name in the world, though; I'm just not certain what it is. But the strategic offensive and tactical defensive always works if the opposition is predictable in certain ways, and conservatives presently are. It's possible to encircle them, cut them off completely from their old ways of thinking and doing. Naturally, this will make them uncomfortable, so the big question is when and how the Appeasers will become Collaborators in their campaign against justice.

so HOW do you plan to "encircle them, cut them off completely from their old ways of thinking and doing." exactly?

You know, like your prescription of just giving over. Now all you need to do is find an actual liberal to collaborate with your campaign.

You mean like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren?

Her name was Heather Heyer. She was thirty-two years old. She is loved, and hearts lie broken today.

Not sure how I can work with the dead.

We will carry her name, as we carry so many others, as we march the long road toward justice, and even if we somehow reach that day in our lifetimes, we cannot simply set them aside and walk away. We will remember, because look what happens when we forget.

So your strategy is to make her a martyr? More of a tactical move than a strategy, but I think it would be a fine tactic.

Well to start, a President who stops pandering to the white supremacists and who, like sculptor, can't even blame them or call them by name.. actually placing the blame where it belongs and naming them would be a good start.

Yeah, yes, but how do we get rid of the pig boar? A plan of action please, at least tiassa is like "we will hold the corpse of the girl who died protesting white nationalists, up as martyr" a little morbid, but it is a start

 

[Randwolf]

little advice
stay home
Had the counter-protesters stayed home this never would have happened.

Maybe you're right sculptor. But if the "counter-protesters stayed home" the real 'Murcans nazi types wouldn't have been able to get their warm fuzzies from the Storm Trumper after slaughtering a no good sympathizin' resistor:

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/896505166555299843/photo/1



​

Because, after all, she was "a Fat, Childless 32-Year-Old Slut" anyway:

The woman killed in yesterday’s road rage incident has been identified as Heather Heyer, a 32-year-old overweight slob with no children.

Here’s five fat facts you need to know.

1) She was Fat and a Drain on Society
Despite feigned outrage by the media, most people are glad she is dead, as she is the definition of uselessness. A 32-year-old woman without children is a burden on society and has no value.

Due to female privilege, and the fact that they do virtually nothing their entire lives, women live an average of 5 years longer than men. The average female lifespan is 81 years. That means for 49 more years, this fat slob would have been leeching off of men’s work.
...
https://www.dailystormer.com/heathe...ncident-was-a-fat-childless-32-year-old-slut/
​

These are the people you are supporting sculptor - but then again, you already know that...

​

 

[spidergoat]

Lee was a top graduate of the United States Military Academy and an exceptional officer and military engineer in the United States Army for 32 years. During this time, he served throughout the United States, distinguished himself during the Mexican–American War, and served as Superintendent of the United States Military Academy.

You forgot traitor to our country.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Because, after all, she was "a Fat, Childless 32-Year-Old Slut" anyway:

The woman killed in yesterday’s road rage incident has been identified as Heather Heyer, a 32-year-old overweight slob with no children.

Here’s five fat facts you need to know.

1) She was Fat and a Drain on Society
Despite feigned outrage by the media, most people are glad she is dead, as she is the definition of uselessness. A 32-year-old woman without children is a burden on society and has no value.

Due to female privilege, and the fact that they do virtually nothing their entire lives, women live an average of 5 years longer than men. The average female lifespan is 81 years. That means for 49 more years, this fat slob would have been leeching off of men’s work.
...
​

These are the people you are supporting sculptor - but then again, you already know that...

Oh fuck I nearly laughed a hernia there... wait a minute that is not 4chan.

At the very least use an archive for their site instead of giving them clicks: http://archive.is/kdYlJ

Well nothing can be done about them dancing on someone grave with writing. All that can be done is to hope they commit more crimes that they get arrested for and raped repeatedly in prison, which means more bodies are going to hit the floor.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Maybe you're right sculptor. But if the "counter-protesters stayed home" the real 'Murcans nazi types wouldn't have been able to get their warm fuzzies from the Storm Trumper after slaughtering a no good sympathizin' resistor:

https://twitter.com/dabeard/status/896505166555299843/photo/1



​

Because, after all, she was "a Fat, Childless 32-Year-Old Slut" anyway:

The woman killed in yesterday’s road rage incident has been identified as Heather Heyer, a 32-year-old overweight slob with no children.

Here’s five fat facts you need to know.

1) She was Fat and a Drain on Society
Despite feigned outrage by the media, most people are glad she is dead, as she is the definition of uselessness. A 32-year-old woman without children is a burden on society and has no value.

Due to female privilege, and the fact that they do virtually nothing their entire lives, women live an average of 5 years longer than men. The average female lifespan is 81 years. That means for 49 more years, this fat slob would have been leeching off of men’s work.
...
https://www.dailystormer.com/heathe...ncident-was-a-fat-childless-32-year-old-slut/
​

These are the people you are supporting sculptor - but then again, you already know that...

​

I was angry at your post... (More the quote.)

But I believe, sculptor, has a point. I don't live in the South.

Yet, what if U.S. just left Syria, could ISIS just get bored and dismantle? Would doing nothing be a recognized strategy?


:EDIT:

(I do think blowing the tar out of them would be more effective i.e. ground troops.)

 

[ElectricFetus]

(I do think blowing the tar out of them would be more effective i.e. ground troops.)

Yeah but we can't legally do that, plus they have more guns, think of something else then.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

I was meaning it'd a more efficient strategy: still, I'm no General.

 

[iceaura]

Just politely ignore the idiot and do something important.

That has failed, radically, as a strategy, in this particular matter.

Failed not only in America, but everywhere else it's been tried.

Lee was a top graduate of the United States Military Academy and an exceptional officer and military engineer in the United States Army for 32 years. During this time, he served throughout the United States, distinguished himself during the Mexican–American War, and served as Superintendent of the United States Military Academy.

Even better record than Benedict Arnold, then. Very capable.
So it's no surprise he was able to do so much more harm, and for so much worse a cause.

 

[Tiassa]

Click because the song that goes with that picture is really cool.​

1. Winning elections is and has been my central argument for years now
2. Random Protests are rarely useful.
3. By all means find a crime to take them to court for.

1. Surrendering civil and human rights is not a reasonable approach to winning elections.

2. So, you know how some people, including and perhaps especially me, keep ripping you for your Republican or conservative narrative? Well, when you say "random", you're pandering to those narratives by ignoring the narratives of the protesters, much like you ignore other narratives in order to dismiss human rights as some manner of mere identity politics.

3. By tradition, there is no point three.

4. Someone as politically astute as you would like us to be might recall that part of the reason they're so pissed off is that they keep losing in court.

4(a). Naturally, you respond by pretending—I mean, you are pretending, right?—cluelessness and pointing in a different direction.

4(a)1. Windsor? Obergefell? Racist redistricting in Texas? North Carolina? Bills of attainder and other legislative failures aimed at Planned Parenthood? Seriously, for all you complain about how pissed off they are, are you really so lost in your strawfield that you can't remember the real reasons?​

 

[Tiassa]

Because, after all ....

A little over an hour ago, via Caroline O.↱:

@GoDaddy has informed the Daily Stormer that they violated their terms of service and have 24 hours to move the domain to another provider.​

____________________

Notes:

@RVAwonk. ".@GoDaddy has informed the Daily Stormer that they violated their terms of service and have 24 hours to move the domain to another provider." Twitter. 13 August 2017. Twitter.com. 13 August 2017. http://bit.ly/2wVPM8R

 

[ElectricFetus]

1. Surrendering civil and human rights is not a reasonable approach to winning elections.

Except we are surrendering nothing, we been over this, what civil and human rights are begin surrendered?

2. So, you know how some people, including and perhaps especially me, keep ripping you for your Republican or conservative narrative? Well, when you say "random", you're pandering to those narratives by ignoring the narratives of the protesters, much like you ignore other narratives in order to dismiss human rights as some manner of mere identity politics.

And I don't care, I demand results not narratives, and trump is not an acceptable result no narrative changes that fact. What have your protests done, actually achieved?

3. By tradition, there is no point three.

I think you got it wrong, it is there is no point 2, it goes: point 1: steal underpants, point 2: ???, point 3: profit.

4. Someone as politically astute as you would like us to be might recall that part of the reason they're so pissed off is that they keep losing in court.

4(a). Naturally, you respond by pretending—I mean, you are pretending, right?—cluelessness and pointing in a different direction.
​

You mean like how they already lost the statue? And we needed not do anything?

4(a)1. Windsor? Obergefell? Racist redistricting in Texas? North Carolina? Bills of attainder and other legislative failures aimed at Planned Parenthood? Seriously, for all you complain about how pissed off they are, are you really so lost in your strawfield that you can't remember the real reasons?​

what is the real reason? real reason for what? The rise in their hate? Two decades of economic stagnation for the middle and lower classes, that is the REAL reason, if you want to get technical it is trump, and how people like you would rather have us lose to Trump than change strategies.

 

[Kittamaru]

I'll say this... it sure seems the only good thing to come of the tRump "presidency" is that it has put the spotlight out for all the mongrels of the nation - white supremacists, racists, bigots, et al - and they have taken to it like moths to a flame.

Now that they are in the open... the question is what do we do with them? I admit, there is a small part of me that says round them up and toss em on their ass... but then those of us who respect and honor what this Nation was actually founded upon would be no better than they.

Much the same, they have made it obvious that peaceful co-existence is not an option for them - they see themselves as superior to the "lesser peoples" in every measurable way (which is laughable when you look at actual facts, but as we have seen time and again, facts run off these morons like water from a ducks back).

So... what do we do? What chills me is that it seems they have made that choice for us, left us with only one option that has even the barest chance to work... and it is an option that leaves a foul taste in my mouth to say. These hate groups have said quite adamantly that they don't want and will not accept coexistence... does that leave us with any choice except to remove them in some manner?

Is this a case where the words of Spock apply: The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

 

[ElectricFetus]

These people were coexisting just fine, but let them win the presidency and this is what happens.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

There's a PDF guide for dealing with bozo's https://www.splcenter.org/20170810/alt-right-campus-what-students-need-know

And WTF?

Sporting the clever acronym “FOAK,” the Fraternal Order of Alt- Knights is a fight-club “fraternity” of young, white, pro-Trump men formed, its organizers claim, to defend the free-speech rights of alt-right leaders and engage in street fighting.