Greatest I Am's anti-religion thread

[Kittamaru]

I do not recall saying "all" unless I was speaking of the supernaturally based ideologies. If I did, let me show a few exceptions. Buddhism as some of their branches do not believe in a God and do not name one, Karaite Jews who put man above God and my own Gnostic Christianity that follows that same reasoning.

Your own implication there was that your ideology was the only one that was uncorrupted. None the less - even with this statement, your desire to look down upon those who think differently than you is evident. Thanks for that

Gnostic Christians do tolerate all other religion. We are esoteric ecumenists and try to learn from them, and when we learn something that has corrupted thinking, we are duty bound to speak against them because to allow that evil to grow, all we need do is let it ride unopposed. I do not think I ever said our way was the only way. Get the quote though so I can make sure.

By your words, then, you are "duty bound" to denounce most major religions and try to tell all of their followers they are wrong. Let me know how that works for you, especially in the Middle East areas.

I do not think I said above so again, get the quote so that I can see it.

And here we have your incredible dishonesty on display - I already did quote you. Read the post before you blather an inane reply, and maybe you will save yourself from looking like a fool.

That aside, are these not saying that we can indeed be brethren and equal to Jesus?

No, they are not. No one else can do what Christ came to do, because he has fulfilled the old laws - by his own words - "It is done." Thus, it is not there to be done again.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Cute, but irrelevant. We can become "like" Christ in that we follow God's laws. We cannot become "like" Christ in becoming the perfect lamb of God, freely given to absolve Man of their sin.

The supernatural Gods, for sure, but not the God Jesus speaks of in those quotes just above.

We are all above the supernatural Gods because they are fiction and we are not.

We can do things that can be seen and attributed to us while nothing can be genuinely attributed to the fictional Gods.

So you believe in Jesus Christ, but not in God (or some other Divine)? What do you attribute Christs calling of the Father to, then? Was Christ speaking metaphorically? If that is what you believe, then what was Christ saying when he cried "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani" How would you explain the miracles attributed to Christ, such as restoring the sight of a blind man, or curing a leper?

I recognize the callousness of American's on this issue but that is just local while I see the rest of the world doing a lot better than the U.S. Proof is that the rest of us are contributing nicely to medical and social systems that look to the poor, to the point of soon having rid mankind of the type of poverty that the U.S. would impose on it poorest and weakest. Have a look.

Congratulations, one of your youngest nations on Earth hasn't caught up with the rest of the world on socio-economic issues. There's a shocker...
You are, however, attempting to attribute a problem of Greed to the teachings of Religion. As far as the rest - I would suggest looking at Pre-American history... there is quite a lot of it, you know.

Sigh. If you only have one son, would you step up to die or would you send your child?

How would you suggest an immortal being (possibly even an immaterial being) "step up to die"?

That is exactly what God did - Christ is not separate from God, but rather is God come to Earth. You seem to have a problem with that idea...

I will assume that you would do the right thing and not what God did.

See above.

Further, scriptures say that many are called and few hear and are on the wide road to hell, and then the lake of fire.

Oh, and where, pray tell, does it say that post the death and Resurrection of Christ?

That is God killing the many and just having a few end in heaven.

That ideology is what this bishop says will kill Christianity and the sooner the better in my view.

Ah, and here we come to the crux of your REAL issue - you just don't like it, and so you want it gone. Good thing your fixation is on Religion and not, say, skin colour, or else your rabid fixation would be all the more obvious to everybody.

In Gen 3, God says we gained the same moral sense that he has. They have become as Gods in the knowing of good and evil.

So you claim that having knowledge of Good and Evil is enough to be God? I would say that the passage states quite plainly that the statement was "Like God, they know both Good and Evil".

Here's a way that will make it as plain as I can possibly make it for you - Knowing the difference between a Sirloin Steak and a Pork Chop does not make you a butcher. Having knowledge of what a triple bypass is does not make you a cardiovascular surgeon. Knowing how to change your oil does not make you a Mechanic.

That is what allows us to judge God by doing what scriptures urge us to do.

That sentence doesn't even make sense on its own merits, let alone in any rational context.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

You, I hope, tested the notion that your God would be a prick for sending his son to die instead of stepping up himself. If of course you chose the moral decision above. I will be interested is seeing if your morals are better than the God who did not have the balls to die to fill his own requirements and had his only son murdered.

See above - how do you suggest an immortal being die?
Also, Jesus said himself: "The Scriptures also say, 'You must not test the LORD your God.'" (Luke 4:12). There is also Matthew 4:7 - Jesus responded, "The Scriptures also say, 'You must not test the LORD your God.'" and Deuteronomy 6:16 - You must not test the LORD your God as you did when you complained at Massah.

But please, continue to argue in circles.

 

[Kittamaru]

Let me test your morality again. Would you condemn a God for using genocide and killing when he could cure?

Would you condemn a person for using Raid to remove an infestation of fire ants as opposed to digging up his entire home to relocate said nest?

Would you condemn a man for doing that?

Show me a single man that can commit genocide OR cure on his own.

Or would you give God a pass while condemning a man for the same offence?

Go ahead and challenge God to fisticuffs - I'll wait.

As for your "That's not how this works... or are you claiming I have some right/ability/standing to tell God that He is wrong? That I don't need saving?

Tell us all what you did that was so sinful that you deserved to be condemned to hell and death, remembering of course that your scriptures say that justice is close to an eye fore an eye, or better said, that the penalty must suit the crime.

I was born - take a gander: http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/why-are-we-born-sinners-a-bible-study/

Tell us my friend, why did God produce such vile creatures?

He didn't - or have you already forgotten the events of Genesis that you quoted just a few short moments prior?

Please do not use your foolish free will card. But if that is all the answer that comes to you, read on.

See Genesis 3.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

Actually, it would be the Serpent that convinced Eve to disobey God, who then convinced Adam to eat.

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

So you are claiming that God should have given us "Free Will", yet also limited us to making "Good choices". Doesn't that seem to require an omission of the "free" part of "Free Will"?

I think you are just being intentionally pedantic for the sake of being argumentative.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.

There was one who did not Sin - Christ.

Oh my how low you put those who Jesus said are the light of the world.

You show you are a dim bulb and do not like those who shine brighter than you.

like your God, you are a jealous God.

Let us see if you are a moral one at least when you answer my questions above, if you answer that is.

Regards
DL

*wipes away a tear* Oh my, I needed that laugh. Me, jealous of you? You who is so arrogant as to think himself better than the bulk of the worlds population? You, who thinks you would have cause to stand and judge your Creator?

That is rich. Go away little Troll - nobody is buying the snake oil you are peddling.

 

[Greatest I am]

Majority? Friends? In a church hierarchy?
I do not know what planet you live on.

Well, some church hierarchies are moving towards equality of women and gays and that is due to pressure from the majority, and since they pay the bills, the minority view or the hierarchies are bending to the view of the money.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Your own implication there was that your ideology was the only one that was uncorrupted. None the less - even with this statement, your desire to look down upon those who think differently than you is evident. Thanks for that

Not differently. I like diversity in thought as that is always good to look at in case I can learn from it. Different as in poorly is what I go after so that I might help improve the thinking of others the way I was helped by the thought of better people. I am not surprised at your attitude though as you think yourself the teacher when you should be thinking of yourself as the student.

By your words, then, you are "duty bound" to denounce most major religions and try to tell all of their followers they are wrong. Let me know how that works for you, especially in the Middle East areas.

I need not go that far but do a comparison and note that Christianity is no better than Islam. Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I.

I already did quote you. Read the post before you blather an inane reply, and maybe you will save yourself from looking like a fool.

What is dishonest is you making statements and then refusing to back it up with facts. Do try to keep your childish name calling to a minimum, you do not want to look like the tyrant you accuse me of being.

No, they are not. No one else can do what Christ came to do, because he has fulfilled the old laws - by his own words - "It is done." Thus, it is not there to be done again.

Ok. Ignore your own scripture and let Jesus just hang there waiting for the brethren you say do not or cannot exist. This whole verse is garbage to you is it?

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I would call you a cherry picker but I try to be civil with your type of hypocrite.

Shall I cherry pick the verses where Jesus himself says that any that believe in him could do everything he did and more. Nah. why bother since you do not believe in what the bible says.

Cute, but irrelevant. We can become "like" Christ in that we follow God's laws. We cannot become "like" Christ in becoming the perfect lamb of God, freely given to absolve Man of their sin.

Irrelevant to you but not to those who believe in what the bible says. God's law says to rest on the Sabbath and Jews, like Jesus used to stone people for working on the Sabbath until Jesus reminded them that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. That also implies that Jesus, rightfully so, would say that Gods and religions are made to serve man and not for man to serve them. You wish to serve God when God/Jesus said he cam to serve us. For a God who does not change, you sure think he changed his ways. As to absolving us og sin. I guess you did not follow Bishop Spong's link or you would not follow that immoral tenet where you profit from
shedding your responsibility by putting your punishment onto an innocent man. Quite immoral that but morality does not seem to be your forte.

So you believe in Jesus Christ, but not in God (or some other Divine)?

I do not believe in the Roman created Jesus you do. Some of his moral tenets are not moral at all. Like the substitutionary atonement that you like so much where the innocent are punished instead of the guilty. I also think his no divorce rule is immoral as it forces people to live in loveless ot abusive situations. You could say I have a belief in God, but not your supernatural imaginary one. That one is quite the immoral prick than to being a genocidal son murderer.

I do like the other Jesus whose quotes above you reject. That is a more mystical esoteric Jesus who makes a lot more sense and has better morals than yours.

What do you attribute Christs calling of the Father to, then?

Tradition from better thinkers than the literalist fools that Christianity and Islam became. Here is a link that shows the more intelligent thinking than yours.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further, many people, ancient and modern, use(d) the word father when describing the teacher they seek internally where Jesus says we will find our Christ mind. Freud and Jung, a Gnostic developed what they called the Father complex which really was an old complex that they just modernised.

You may have forgotten that before Christianly was born, most Gods were seen as endogenous with both male and female characteristics. Christianity wanted to denigrate women so much and make them second class that they took the feminine out of God. Gnostic Christians on the other hand tend to give women what I call equality plus. We place women and children above us since we feel strongly about our duty to family.

How would you explain the miracles attributed to Christ, such as restoring the sight of a blind man, or curing a leper?

What every intelligent man thinks, fiction. That or myth with a message that is lost when reading scriptures literally.

How would you suggest an immortal being (possibly even an immaterial being) "step up to die"?

So this is how you deflect from answering my question.

Was Jesus not also how you describe the Father.

Your deflection as to ignore your God's immorality as well as yours is duly noted. A moral man would have just answered my question.

Actually, it would be the Serpent that convinced Eve to disobey God, who then convinced Adam to eat.e on his own.

Who cast Satan into Eden with the power to deceive Eve?

Please show the dialog where Eves convinced Adam.

I ignored the rest of the inane deflections you used when you could not apologise properly for your genocidal son murdering God, so I think one more round of your foolishness is about all I can take before I ask you to take your hypocrisy out of my O.P. or simply ignore you.

If you are an example of a Christian apologist, you get a fail so far.

Regards
DL

 

[cluelusshusbund]

@ GIA

I thank you'r message may hit to close to home for some... especialy those who never got over the crushin blow that Santa an Easter Bunny wasnt real... so insted of acknowledgin that Gods are superstition they definitely hold on to an empty space in ther heads an harts for "God-Saviors".!!!

 

[Greatest I am]

@ GIA

I thank you'r message may hit to close to home for some... especialy those who never got over the crushin blow that Santa an Easter Bunny wasnt real... so insted of acknowledgin that Gods are superstition they definitely hold on to an empty space in ther heads an harts for "God-Saviors".!!!

That is all due to their brainwashing toward faith instead of facts, logic and reason.

Note how in the last two posts from our friend, the moment facts, reason and moral logic were presented, he tucked tail and ran. I was getting enough of idol worshiping guys like him before and put a little thing together for all the idol worshipers and literalists who think myths are reality.

----------

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the OT says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason on God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes their mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their ears.

Regards
DL

 

[Kittamaru]

I think we have officially hit the point where this is no longer even an attempt at religious discussion, and can call this what it is - alternative theory at best, occult at worst.

 

[Greatest I am]

I think we have officially hit the point where this is no longer even an attempt at religious discussion,

I agree with this, thanks to you with your deflections and inane replies or outright ignoring pertinent questions.

A decent apologist, you are not. Our friend above pegged you right with his vie that some "hold on to an empty space in their heads an hearts for "God-Saviors".!!!

You my friend are just hanging on to your get out of hell free card because of fear and your morality somehow allows you to put tour own responsibility for your sins onto an innocent man.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Thanks for showing us your Christian morality and your inability to justify it.

Now we are through here.

Regards
DL

 

[Jeeves]

Well, some church hierarchies are moving towards equality of women and gays and that is due to pressure from the majority, and since they pay the bills, the minority view or the hierarchies are bending to the view of the money.

Regards
DL

And that's how they choose their leaders, is it? According to the money?
Doesn't say a lot for faith, does it?
(Anyway, "some churches moving toward" some vague approximation of their original mandate, 2000 years late an a jillion dollars short, hardly starts to make up for the wrecked cities, burned witched and raped and battered children.)

 

[Greatest I am]

And that's how they choose their leaders, is it? According to the money?
Doesn't say a lot for faith, does it?
(Anyway, "some churches moving toward" some vague approximation of their original mandate, 2000 years late an a jillion dollars short, hardly starts to make up for the wrecked cities, burned witched and raped and battered children.)

I agree.

That is why I disrespect religions like Christianity and Islam.

I do not know what this situation is saying about humans on the whole but it is not good.

Especially when we have always know that religions are corrupted as evidenced by so many starting up new sexts to the originals. Some say there are about 3,000 Christians sects and I hear that even in Islam where apostates are often murdered, there are 69 or so sects.

Gullible is one thing, but this looks more like outright insanity and a total disregard for the moral sense we all share.

Insult over injury as you and I have to make up the tax shortfall that, thanks to their tax exemptions we give these immoral damaging to society religions.

WTF is wrong with the non-believer who are in that way helping support these odious religions?

Regards
DL

 

[Kittamaru]

I agree with this, thanks to you with your deflections and inane replies or outright ignoring pertinent questions.

A decent apologist, you are not. Our friend above pegged you right with his vie that some "hold on to an empty space in their heads an hearts for "God-Saviors".!!!

You my friend are just hanging on to your get out of hell free card because of fear and your morality somehow allows you to put tour own responsibility for your sins onto an innocent man.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Thanks for showing us your Christian morality and your inability to justify it.

Now we are through here.

Regards
DL

You are welcome to blather whatever inane bullshit you wish in the alternative theories section - from now on, that's where I'm consolidating all your "I'm superior to the rest of you" garbage

 

[Dr_Toad]

Yay! You might aggregate some other of the other posters religious rants into this thread (or another). Just sweep the crud under the rug...

 

[Kittamaru]

Yay! You might aggregate some other of the other posters religious rants into this thread (or another). Just sweep the crud under the rug...

Trying to get there

 

[Michael 345]

How do you wish to substantiate that claim? What was done to prove what he said was genuine, and that he wasn't making it up? EEG perhaps?

Just for the sake of trying (very trying) I decided to use up some of my time and Wifi allocation to download the book Journey of Souls

I got to about page 5 and came across

I believe dying people are given access to a supreme knowledge of eternal consciousness and this frequently shows in their faces

Enough enough enough

I could feel my brain shrinking and stopped just in time before it rolled out of my ear

Book filed under Woo Woo

I'm considering taking it to the Unseen University and asking the Wizards to make it a companion of Octavo

Except it would be a insult to Octavo to be alongside a book written by someone who appears to have a lower IQ than his shadow

 

[Greatest I am]

You are welcome to blather whatever inane bullshit you wish in the alternative theories section - from now on, that's where I'm consolidating all your "I'm superior to the rest of you" garbage

Sure, then you will know not to go there to learn why your genocidal son murdering God is inferior to a decent moral God.

Abuse your mod privilege all you like.

Regards
DL

 

[Kittamaru]

Sure, then you will know not to go there to learn why your genocidal son murdering God is inferior to a decent moral God.

Abuse your mod privilege all you like.

Regards
DL

You are, of course, free to continue this "superiority complex" delusion you have as long as you like - as I said before, nobody is buying what you are peddling (which is good, because your snake oil is quite dangerous in the end... after all, once one is convinced they are superior to the rest, it tends to lead to terrible things... prejudice, bigotry, slavery, genocide, war... the list goes on).

 

[Greatest I am]

You are, of course, free to continue this "superiority complex" delusion you have as long as you like - as I said before, nobody is buying what you are peddling (which is good, because your snake oil is quite dangerous in the end... after all, once one is convinced they are superior to the rest, it tends to lead to terrible things... prejudice, bigotry, slavery, genocide, war... the list goes on).

You adore a genocidal son murdering God and that makes you definitely morally inferior to those who would rightly see genocide as immoral.

Live with it and stop whining when people tell you the truth of your immorality.

The only reason you moved the O.P. is that you showed your immorality and are such a poor apologist you could not talk anyone into thinking you were moral.

Regards
DL

 

[exchemist]

You are, of course, free to continue this "superiority complex" delusion you have as long as you like - as I said before, nobody is buying what you are peddling (which is good, because your snake oil is quite dangerous in the end... after all, once one is convinced they are superior to the rest, it tends to lead to terrible things... prejudice, bigotry, slavery, genocide, war... the list goes on).

Well, you were certainly right to move all the ranting to one place! With a bit of luck he'll have a stroke and then we'll be left in peace.

 

[Kittamaru]

You adore a genocidal son murdering God and that makes you definitely morally inferior to those who would rightly see genocide as immoral.

The fact that you still continue to claim this, yet fail so spectacularly to support it (or even understand your own claim) is adorable. Run along little 'un.

Live with it and stop whining when people tell you the truth of your immorality.

Whining? I'm LAUGHING. Quite hysterically in fact. Your "superior morality" is as fake and full of holes as your so-called religion.

The only reason you moved the O.P. is that you showed your immorality and are such a poor apologist you could not talk anyone into thinking you were moral.

Regards
DL

The reason I moved the op is because it is alternative theory garbage - you have admitted repeatedly that you aren't actually here for discussion, but to profess your own superiority. Given your intent to preach and proselytize, I think containing your spew to one thread is quite generous, rather than shit-canning it all and issuing infraction points, as would be in accord with a strict adherence to the rules you agreed to when you signed up for SciForums.

As for me being a "poor apologist", you are right - I would make a poo apologist. I don't have the patience to deal with stupid bullshit, so I wouldn't bother apologizing or making excuses for it. Unfortunately for you, the truth is that you are the one unable to convince anyone into thinking you were moral.

 

[Yazata]

Well, you were certainly right to move all the ranting to one place! With a bit of luck he'll have a stroke and then we'll be left in peace.

That's perhaps the most evil post that I have ever seen here on Stupidforums, and believe me, that's saying something.