Ultimate male feminist?

Secular Sanity

Secular Sanity

Registered Senior Member
The ultimate male feminist does not exist.

The real reason that men and women can’t be friends is because men don’t want to be friends with us. Even if we have more to offer as a friend, when push comes to shove, they’d select another male over a female every time. They say that they can’t be themselves around us, that we’re too much trouble, and that we need more comfort care.

Adrian Ward said that platonic coexistence is merely a facade. I’ve asked around and I think he’s right. They’ll only be friends with us, if they’re attracted to us. And yet, most men feel that it is unfair to use our sexuality to get ahead. Go figure.

How 'bout gay men? Can gay men and straight women be true friends? I doubt it. They’re just as biased towards us as straight men are.

[Gay male] Adrien Field: "We are not women, and we don’t advance ourselves by acting like them. Instead of being gossiping queens, we’d be better off adopting traditionally masculine traits such as stoicism, quiet contemplation, and responsibility."

You know, it’s not our gender that makes us so different. We are different. We’re different individuals. The ultimate male feminist would know this and could maintain an authentic friendship with a female.
 
I'm gay, and while I don't currently have any close female friends at the moment, I have had so in the past.

There's a difference between finding someone attractive and liking them.

Saying men would be "better off" by adopting traditionally masculine traits is like saying women would be "better off" by staying feminine... by gossiping? Or doing embroidery and flower arranging or making sandwiches, or some other sexist rubbish? Who does Adrien Field think he is?

Also, since when was "responsibility" a traditional masculine trait? Has he never met a mother?
 
Secular Sanity said:
The real reason that men and women can’t be friends is because men don’t want to be friends with us. Even if we have more to offer as a friend, when push comes to shove, they’d select another male over a female every time.
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Um... Can't people say things like: I married my best friend?
 
Secular Sanity said:
The real reason that men and women can’t be friends is because men don’t want to be friends with us. Even if we have more to offer as a friend, when push comes to shove, they’d select another male over a female every time. They say that they can’t be themselves around us, that we’re too much trouble, and that we need more comfort care.
Adrian Ward said that platonic coexistence is merely a facade. I’ve asked around and I think he’s right. They’ll only be friends with us, if they’re attracted to us.
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Hmm. I haven't found this to be true. But to each their own.
You know, it’s not our gender that makes us so different. We are different. We’re different individuals.
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As is everyone.
 
Daecon said:
I'm gay, and while I don't currently have any close female friends at the moment, I have had so in the past.
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So you've had a few fag hags have you?

Daecon said:
Who does Adrien Field think he is?
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Well, he's not the only one. Gay men can be misogynistic, too. There's "male privilege" and then there's "gay male privilege".

Beer w/Straw said:
Um... Can't people say things like: I married my best friend?
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Of course, but you have sex with that friend.

billvon said:
Hmm. I haven't found this to be true. But to each their own.
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Are you a man or a woman? Ask around. It's true.
 
So any woman that is friends with a gay guy is automatically nothing more than a fag hag?
 
Secular Sanity said:
Too much for you to read, eh, little Missy? Do you have any male friends? If so, ask them if they want to have sex. Of course they do or they wouldn't be your friend.
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But don't bother asking them that if they're gay, because then you're only a fag hag, apparently.
 
OK, so like, I'm going to bed. But to maybe see if something -discussion- can come of this thread if I should find it locked when I wake up, I'll ask thus question:

Are you thinking men of having no empathy like a psychopath?
 
​

Daecon said:
Saying men would be "better off" by adopting traditionally masculine traits is like saying women would be "better off" by staying feminine... by gossiping? Or doing embroidery and flower arranging or making sandwiches, or some other sexist rubbish? Who does Adrien Field think he is?
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It's largely neurotic. The thing is that there is a lot of misogyny in the gay community, as you're aware, and a tremendous portion of that comes from jealousy.

And it really is a strange envy.

Of course, I suppose that assertion also seems more or less observable depending on, say, age, geographical community, and, quite honestly, something about the queen ratio on the local scene.

I don't know; I tuned into your exchange with our neighbor, and immediately thought of Sasha Steinberg's "8 Queens"↱.

But in the question of sex, gender, and homosexuality, I am much more comfortable in what the stereotype delineates as feminine.

This idea of a rising need to pass by deliberately cultivating stereotypical masculinity is a bit unsettling, and seems counterproductive.

Also I would note Mr. Field's comparison:

Men ― "stoicism, quiet contemplation, and responsibility"

Women ― "gossiping queens"​

I've got an idea. Why don't gay men show traditionally female traits like compassion, ingenuity, determination, and innovation―("Has he never met a mother?")―instead of adopting traditional masculine traits like raping, killing, stealing, and destroying? That is to say, we see in Field's construction what really does look like traditional misogyny. Given that he views women in such a terrible aspect, we should not wonder that he wants to put as much distance 'twixt himself and the femme stereotype as possible.

But, really, you know, I would think being gay would help assuage some of our masculine insecurities. Then again, I have no idea what Mr. Field's sex life looks like, but as much fun as pissing on the sub one is about to fist might sound, I doubt it compensates for penis anxiety.

(If you ever feel an itch to bleach your eyeballs, find a user-generated pornography site and search for image sets for small penis; the identifying men characteristically show screaming misogyny of nearly hilarious, allegedly self-excoriating dimensions. If we take it seriously, you'd think there was an elevated suicide risk in there, somewhere. But, yeah, anyway, you'll definitely want ocular Clorox after that.)

Who knows?

Still, 'tis true we ought to be cautious about taking gender identity advice from an open misogynist; just like we ought to be cautious about questions of friendship raised by one who precludes friendship.

I don't know. Passing just seems so passé. I mean, we're gay. We just won. Why give up the fabulous for the sake of passing?

You know, my mother had to go through that: It's so good you're out of the closet. Just, you know, don't act too gay.

Come out, come out. Now, disappear.

And she's getting over it.

Hopefully, Mr. Field will someday get over whatever the hell his problem is.

I mean, you know. My mother's seventy, and she can adapt. Mr. Field, a fashion designer based in Dehli and Los Angeles, a self-described "spiritual playboy", is clearly younger. To the one, my mother has had to learn to overcome past societal mores. To the other, Mr. Field has to learn how to learn. There's time. He's ... probably ... capable.
____________________

Notes:

Steinberg, Sasha. "8 Queens". The Nib. 24 February 2015. TheNib.com. 28 October 2015. http://bit.ly/1DgpA4l
 
Hmm, after some consideration, I'd have to admit to having a small amount of envy that women have so many more options when it comes to elaborate and fanciful dress.

Cocktail dresses and ballgowns in all colours of the rainbow... and what do men have? A black tuxedo or a grey business suit. Trousers, shirt and jacket. Maybe a waistcoat. One style fits all, apparently, if you're male.

That doesn't mean that I resent women for having so many more options, I'm just disappointed that men don't have as many.
 
Secular Sanity said:
Too much for you to read, eh, little Missy? Do you have any male friends? If so, ask them if they want to have sex. Of course they do or they wouldn't be your friend.
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I also have lots of money too.

And no, it's not too much to read. It's just more convenient to pay someone to read it for me.
 
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