Islam Got It First...

[Michael]

I wouldn't mind knowing about some neuroscience discoveries about the nervous systems, brain, spinal cord, peripheral nervous system, the eyes, hearing, taste, that Arabs discovered.

Not "Islamic" but people living in the Arab Empire. I like neuroscience and I like history so I wouldn't mind knowing more about Arab inventiveness in regards to the two.


It should be noted, my own ancestors were German. Germans didn't really make that many great discoveries until relatively recently (as compared with the Greeks, CHinese, Egyptians, Romans, Indians, Persians etc...). So, it's not that I'm Eurocentric. I'm simply not convinced that Arabs got that far given the really really long period of stability that had.

Probably some of the best known Scientists were from the very early years of the Arab Empire and were more than likely Persians filling in those opened economic and intellectual spaces a revolution of any kind will open up.


Anyway, Ancient Arab neuroscience discoveries would be interesting to know about

 

[Shadow1]

I think the problem here is your use of the idea that "Islam" was responsible for Arab progress. I have never seen evidence to that effect and if anything there is some good evidence that the opposite is true.

Think about this. After the Mongolians conquered China, killed off about 80 million Chinese, the Chinese entered a "Golden Age". Was this an effect of Shamanism? Or, a change in the socioeconomic structure of Chinese Civilization - creating millions of little opportunities for people with skill, courage, clever ideas, etc....

According to your way of thinking it would be the "Shamanistic Golden Age".

That just doesn't make sense. And think about this: IS there ANY other Golden Age referred to as a Religion other than Islam? So you think of the European Enlightenment or do you think Christian Golden Age? Do you think of Calculus as Math or Christian Math? Is your computer a Scientific Invention or a Christian Invention?

oh, i see, so it's not because of islam, ok, no problem, it want make a difference, i still beleive in my relegion, and in my history, anyway, yeah i'm convinced partially, i'll make some search bout it.

I'm not saying Arabs didn't make ANY progress at all. Just that given the long amount of time and the opportunities they had, they didn't make that much progress.

yeah right, no much progress, ok, let me list you the inventions that the islamic civilisation made, and still used till toaday, and changed the world, ( isay islamic civilisation, cause i already said why, persiand also were the arabic civlisation pauls, they are also muslims )

Coffee
Pin-Hole Camera
Chess
Parachute
Shampoo
Refinement
Shaft
Surgery
Windmill
Vaccination
Fountain Pen
Numerical Numbering
Soup
Carpets
Pay Cheques
Earch is in sphere shape
Rocket and Torpedo
Gardens
chemistry!
indian invented aljebra, and persiand discovered it from them, then arabs discovered it from persian, and they became the masters of maths,

and that's not all, there are more,
check the site
www.1001invetions.com
if you want to be sure, try youtube, try 1001 invetions, try ancient muslim invetions , etc..

http://www.wonderfulinfo.com/winfo/muslminv.php
...

without those inventions, europe would still be in it's dark ages, the world would be very different, and would be 500 years late of how we are now, if not 1000 years,

I think if you were being intellectually honest, you'd agree that counter to Arab Civilization being build on "Islam" it was build entirely upon a Persian and RomanGrecco foundation. Much of which was translated by Christians and Jews living in monasteries that were ransacked and carted off to Baghdad. Yes, there were some very clever Arabs and Persians. But it seems not as many as one would expect. In some areas of science and arts the Greeks were doing more 1000 years earlier. The Greek "Golden Age" lasted what? 50-70 years? The so-called Islamic Golden Age was what? 800 years? Which is just crazy but that's what some Muslim suggest. well shit, in 800 years of a continuous Golden Age, I'd expect a hell of a lot more than what came of it.

who said it's 800 years of golden ages, it says 1000 lost history, and yes, we can't just start from zero, at the first ages, we translated the greek books, actually, those books would be lost in that dark age if we didnt translate it, i i mean, by we, the ancient muslims, also translated asian books. then, we created and invented things that didnt even exist before, like chimistry, and it's orginal name is "al kimyae" also other inventions, anyway, i listed soem of them, and also they built alot of cities if you're going to say that they didnt, like tunis, kairouan, mahdia, sousse, monastir... (that's only in my contry, i don't know the rest in the other contries)
i just alway wonder, when are you always trying to say that the muslim civilisation didnt make a good progress and didnt chape the world of toaday? is it because of the media and your idea about that we're terrorists or something??? i just don't get it, why you always try to deny everything, that relate to an arabic civilisation, or whatever...

Again, I'm not suggesting Arabs didn't make any progress. Just that it wasn't due to Islam, it was in spite of Islam.

yes i understand that,

1) Arabs had discussed ideas very much like evolution. But, discarded them because they couldn't accept that man had evolved. Evolution has revolutionized and paved the way for modern biology. Here's a really great example of where Islamic Philosophy, based on superstition, prevented the scientific development of Arabs.

ok, so, we're not perfect! also you're not, no civilisation is.
also i'm a muslim, i beleive in the evolution, but i don't beleive in the evolution of humans from apes,
also, it's all science. beside, about 40 percent don't beleive in the evolution
i beleive in the evolution, but actually, i'm against the evolution of men from apes, also, it's a theory right?

2) Arabs were some of the best sculptors in the ancient world. They made wonderful carvings of human bodied. After Islam the human body was considered taboo. This art form vanished and was (and is) still lost to Arabs to this day.

i don't know about that, what's the taboo? do you mean that art on the human body, it still exist, but we don't use the kind of ink that don't desepear.

3) Slavery. Arabs had this long and lasting "Islamic Golden Age" - then why didn't they ban Slavery? WHY? One would expect a truly "enlightened" people would reach a consensus that Slavery (selling human) is fucking sick. They didn't. They continued to sell humans up until the Europeans pressured them to stop. If "Islam" was so wonderful, why did Arabs continue to Slave Trade? I mean, the philosophy of Chinese Communism put an end to Slaver in less than 10 years. But, because in Islam Mohammad owned Slaves, people accepted it as being acceptable.

in fact, islam forbidened the slavery, in islam, no human must be owned, and if islam said so, it doesnt mean that every one, of the kings in some eras applyed that, but islam denied the slavery, and make it forbiden
ok, wait, european pushed muslims to stop, yeah right, europeans were living in trees in that time, and in wars between them, also, slavery weren't acceptebal in all ages, ( do you know that in a 100 year, there was about 4 diffeent kings, and khalifas(khalifas are the elected people, that works in politics, and they are elected by the rest of politicians, and the people)
anyway, mohammad didnt own slaves, mohammad was calling for islam, and islam denied the slavery, and make it forbidden...

Sorry but THAT is the chain around the neck.


So, again, Arabs made some progress. But did so dragging a big superstitious rock called Islam around their necks. Slow and not as far as they should have gotten.

did you forgot how much christanity, popes and churches were a chain around the necks in europe, that's what caused their dark ages...
so, you say, that arabs, or the muslims in general, didnt affect much on our present world? didnt make a big affect that shaped our world of toaday? yeah right, www.1001invetions.com

 

[Shadow1]

.

I wouldn't mind knowing about some neuroscience discoveries about the nervous systems, brain, spinal cord, peripheral nervous system, the eyes, hearing, taste, that Arabs discovered.

Not "Islamic" but people living in the Arab Empire. I like neuroscience and I like history so I wouldn't mind knowing more about Arab inventiveness in regards to the two.


It should be noted, my own ancestors were German. Germans didn't really make that many great discoveries until relatively recently (as compared with the Greeks, CHinese, Egyptians, Romans, Indians, Persians etc...). So, it's not that I'm Eurocentric. I'm simply not convinced that Arabs got that far given the really really long period of stability that had.

Probably some of the best known Scientists were from the very early years of the Arab Empire and were more than likely Persians filling in those opened economic and intellectual spaces a revolution of any kind will open up.


Anyway, Ancient Arab neuroscience discoveries would be interesting to know about

actually, and not maybe, politicly, arabs have some disturbs, and instabilities, some eras were bad, some were good, some encouraged science, some didnt,
and why you just can't accept this fact? is it because of your look to arabs and muslims? i bet it is, why you can't you always come up with things like, no they are not arabs, they are greek living there, or something, you think the arabic race, and the muslims people are not able to think, not able to invent?why you can't accept it, why you can't accept facts, who do you think i'm gonna beleive, some one, from sciforums, or scientists, historians, and hall organisations, we can't give all the credit to the arabs only, there are also persians and turks,

just for infoamrtion, the arabic race don't exist, arabs were the people of the middle east, wich their race toaday, i don't think they still exist, but their genes still exists in our bodies and genes, arabs have been mixed with phenicians, berbers, persians, asians, and formed us...

and anwsering to your question of the body, make a search, about the human body science or something in the muslim civilisation

 

[fedr808]

oh, i see, so it's not because of islam, ok, no problem, it want make a difference, i still beleive in my relegion, and in my history, anyway, yeah i'm convinced partially, i'll make some search bout it.



yeah right, no much progress, ok, let me list you the inventions that the islamic civilisation made, and still used till toaday, and changed the world, ( isay islamic civilisation, cause i already said why, persiand also were the arabic civlisation pauls, they are also muslims )

Coffee
Pin-Hole Camera
Chess
Parachute
Shampoo
Refinement
Shaft
Surgery
Windmill
Vaccination
Fountain Pen
Numerical Numbering
Soup
Carpets
Pay Cheques
Earch is in sphere shape
Rocket and Torpedo
Gardens
chemistry!
indian invented aljebra, and persiand discovered it from them, then arabs discovered it from persian, and they became the masters of maths,

and that's not all, there are more,
check the site
www.1001invetions.com
if you want to be sure, try youtube, try 1001 invetions, try ancient muslim invetions , etc..

http://www.wonderfulinfo.com/winfo/muslminv.php
...

without those inventions, europe would still be in it's dark ages, the world would be very different, and would be 500 years late of how we are now, if not 1000 years,



who said it's 800 years of golden ages, it says 1000 lost history, and yes, we can't just start from zero, at the first ages, we translated the greek books, actually, those books would be lost in that dark age if we didnt translate it, i i mean, by we, the ancient muslims, also translated asian books. then, we created and invented things that didnt even exist before, like chimistry, and it's orginal name is "al kimyae" also other inventions, anyway, i listed soem of them, and also they built alot of cities if you're going to say that they didnt, like tunis, kairouan, mahdia, sousse, monastir... (that's only in my contry, i don't know the rest in the other contries)
i just alway wonder, when are you always trying to say that the muslim civilisation didnt make a good progress and didnt chape the world of toaday? is it because of the media and your idea about that we're terrorists or something??? i just don't get it, why you always try to deny everything, that relate to an arabic civilisation, or whatever...


yes i understand that,



ok, so, we're not perfect! also you're not, no civilisation is.
also i'm a muslim, i beleive in the evolution, but i don't beleive in the evolution of humans from apes,
also, it's all science. beside, about 40 percent don't beleive in the evolution
i beleive in the evolution, but actually, i'm against the evolution of men from apes, also, it's a theory right?



i don't know about that, what's the taboo? do you mean that art on the human body, it still exist, but we don't use the kind of ink that don't desepear.



in fact, islam forbidened the slavery, in islam, no human must be owned, and if islam said so, it doesnt mean that every one, of the kings in some eras applyed that, but islam denied the slavery, and make it forbiden
ok, wait, european pushed muslims to stop, yeah right, europeans were living in trees in that time, and in wars between them, also, slavery weren't acceptebal in all ages, ( do you know that in a 100 year, there was about 4 diffeent kings, and khalifas(khalifas are the elected people, that works in politics, and they are elected by the rest of politicians, and the people)
anyway, mohammad didnt own slaves, mohammad was calling for islam, and islam denied the slavery, and make it forbidden...



did you forgot how much christanity, popes and churches were a chain around the necks in europe, that's what caused their dark ages...
so, you say, that arabs, or the muslims in general, didnt affect much on our present world? didnt make a big affect that shaped our world of toaday? yeah right, www.1001invetions.com

Okay that is total and compelte bullshit and I am calling you out on it

Coffee
Pin-Hole Camera
Chess
Parachute
Shampoo
Refinement
Shaft
Surgery
Windmill
Vaccination
Fountain Pen
Numerical Numbering
Soup
Carpets
Pay Cheques
Earch is in sphere shape
Rocket and Torpedo
Gardens
chemistry!

Chess- It emerged in Europe in the 15th century. Not in Islamic countries

Pin hole cameras- They were first thought up by Greeks like aristotle and Euclid in the 4th century

parachutes- First conceptualized in the 1470's and than later made in 1617 and used succesfully by a Venetian.

Shampoo- The modern day shampoo was invented in Britain in the 1800's.

Refinement- The first refined metals appeard in the 5th to 6th millenia BC in Serbia.

Shaft- That is just so freaking stupid. Shadow1, there is no proof whatsoever of that besides the fact that the American indians also used devices with shafts on them and invented it themselves. besides the fact that what sort of bragging rights is that? "Oh yeah, we invented a long straight wooden stick."

Surgery- No actually there has been evidence that showed primitive brain surgery by cavemen.

Windmill- The first type of windmill was used in the fourth century BC in Tibet and China

Vaccination- Invented in the 1770's by an English scientist. Jesus, you are such a fool Shadow1, its one thing to unknowingly post things that are misleading, but these are outright lies.

Numerical Numbering- Actually the first guy to count using his fingers invented this, that is nothing special and is just human nature. They did not invent it, at the most they just made up some form of it that they made very common.

Soup-That is so damn stupid you know that shadow1? Just throw a few edible leaves into some water and you have soup, there is nothing special about it and chances are the Islamic nations were not the first ones to think of it.

pay cheques-

earth in a spherical shape- Thats not an invention that's a discovery

Rocket and Torpedo- The first rockets were invented in China, every amateur knows that. Torpedos were invented by an Austrian and English scientist in the later 1800's.

But yah you invented some important things. But dont pretend for one second that without you no one would have ever invented it. They were all obvious things that somebody would have invented at some time whether they were Islamic or not.

How about these:

The modern democracy

The modern automobile

The first widely deployed semi automatic weapon

The first PLANE

The largest economy in the history of the world.

You can keep your wooden sticks and games, none of the stuff invented by the Islamic nations is truly significant in modern day history.


Shadow1, there is very little in the way of unique inventions of incredible significance that has come out of the Islamic countries in the past 200 years that has changed the world.

i just alway wonder, when are you always trying to say that the muslim civilisation didnt make a good progress and didnt chape the world of toaday?

The fact is that they didnt shape the modern world, their inventions sparked other inventions that did change the modern world, so indirectly they influenced the modern world but the fact is that those inventions are not the source of the modern world. If they were, than the Islamic countries by simple logic should be the most powerful ones.

 

[Cellar_Door]

I cannot believe this thread is 12 pages long.

 

[Shadow1]

Okay that is total and compelte bullshit and I am calling you out on it



Chess- It emerged in Europe in the 15th century. Not in Islamic countries

Pin hole cameras- They were first thought up by Greeks like aristotle and Euclid in the 4th century

parachutes- First conceptualized in the 1470's and than later made in 1617 and used succesfully by a Venetian.

Shampoo- The modern day shampoo was invented in Britain in the 1800's.

Refinement- The first refined metals appeard in the 5th to 6th millenia BC in Serbia.

Shaft- That is just so freaking stupid. Shadow1, there is no proof whatsoever of that besides the fact that the American indians also used devices with shafts on them and invented it themselves. besides the fact that what sort of bragging rights is that? "Oh yeah, we invented a long straight wooden stick."

Surgery- No actually there has been evidence that showed primitive brain surgery by cavemen.

Windmill- The first type of windmill was used in the fourth century BC in Tibet and China

Vaccination- Invented in the 1770's by an English scientist. Jesus, you are such a fool Shadow1, its one thing to unknowingly post things that are misleading, but these are outright lies.

Numerical Numbering- Actually the first guy to count using his fingers invented this, that is nothing special and is just human nature. They did not invent it, at the most they just made up some form of it that they made very common.

Soup-That is so damn stupid you know that shadow1? Just throw a few edible leaves into some water and you have soup, there is nothing special about it and chances are the Islamic nations were not the first ones to think of it.

pay cheques-

earth in a spherical shape- Thats not an invention that's a discovery

Rocket and Torpedo- The first rockets were invented in China, every amateur knows that. Torpedos were invented by an Austrian and English scientist in the later 1800's.

But yah you invented some important things. But dont pretend for one second that without you no one would have ever invented it. They were all obvious things that somebody would have invented at some time whether they were Islamic or not.

How about these:

The modern democracy

The modern automobile

The first widely deployed semi automatic weapon

The first PLANE

The largest economy in the history of the world.

You can keep your wooden sticks and games, none of the stuff invented by the Islamic nations is truly significant in modern day history.

ok true, it's bullshit!! and thanks for the information, i have been fooled by a stupid site, but hey, some of those in the list are really invented by them, like surgery, and optics, etc.. and in that time, they didnt even know the cave men, and we(humans ) discovered the cave men surgery in the mordern eras, not in the ancient ones i mean,
http://1001inventions.com/
check the link, and it's not a stupid bloggers site, but a group of scientists and organisations, and it's official in the u.k.
and what part do you mean bullshit?

Shadow1, there is very little in the way of unique inventions of incredible significance that has come out of the Islamic countries in the past 200 years that has changed the world.



The fact is that they didnt shape the modern world, their inventions sparked other inventions that did change the modern world, so indirectly they influenced the modern world but the fact is that those inventions are not the source of the modern world. If they were, than the Islamic countries by simple logic should be the most powerful ones.

you can't say that, cause each civlisation on earth shaped our modern world, even those cave men who invented the wheel, you can't deny it, why do you always try to deny the islamic civlisation in general?
check the site, and you can't deny that each civlisation on earth, shaped our world, india, china, romans, arabs, babylons, etc... and if any of those civilisation didnt exist, we would be hundreds of years behind, and if the muslim civlisation didnt also exist, we would be also hundereds of years behind, imagine a world, without chimistry, or optics, or surgery, and others... even if they didnt discovered at that time, they would be discovered in another time later, late later, also that is applied on each civilisation, like rome, if not rome, not muslim civilisation, cause teh muslim civilisation took from the world knodlge and translated books, and added to it, and invented and discovered new things by starting from that ancient knoledge, what if chinese didnt exist, what if india didnt exist... you can never deny any part of the history

 

[Shadow1]

.

without those inventions, europe would still be in it's dark ages, the world would be very different, and would be 500 years late of how we are now, if not 1000 years,



who said it's 800 years of golden ages, it says 1000 lost history, and yes, we can't just start from zero, at the first ages, we translated the greek books, actually, those books would be lost in that dark age if we didnt translate it, i i mean, by we, the ancient muslims, also translated asian books. then, we created and invented things that didnt even exist before, like chimistry, and it's orginal name is "al kimyae" also other inventions, anyway, i listed soem of them, and also they built alot of cities if you're going to say that they didnt, like tunis, kairouan, mahdia, sousse, monastir... (that's only in my contry, i don't know the rest in the other contries)
i just alway wonder, when are you always trying to say that the muslim civilisation didnt make a good progress and didnt chape the world of toaday? is it because of the media and your idea about that we're terrorists or something??? i just don't get it, why you always try to deny everything, that relate to an arabic civilisation, or whatever...


yes i understand that,



ok, so, we're not perfect! also you're not, no civilisation is.
also i'm a muslim, i beleive in the evolution, but i don't beleive in the evolution of humans from apes,
also, it's all science. beside, about 40 percent don't beleive in the evolution
i beleive in the evolution, but actually, i'm against the evolution of men from apes, also, it's a theory right?



i don't know about that, what's the taboo? do you mean that art on the human body, it still exist, but we don't use the kind of ink that don't desepear.



in fact, islam forbidened the slavery, in islam, no human must be owned, and if islam said so, it doesnt mean that every one, of the kings in some eras applyed that, but islam denied the slavery, and make it forbiden
ok, wait, european pushed muslims to stop, yeah right, europeans were living in trees in that time, and in wars between them, also, slavery weren't acceptebal in all ages, ( do you know that in a 100 year, there was about 4 diffeent kings, and khalifas(khalifas are the elected people, that works in politics, and they are elected by the rest of politicians, and the people)
anyway, mohammad didnt own slaves, mohammad was calling for islam, and islam denied the slavery, and make it forbidden...



did you forgot how much christanity, popes and churches were a chain around the necks in europe, that's what caused their dark ages...
so, you say, that arabs, or the muslims in general, didnt affect much on our present world? didnt make a big affect that shaped our world of toaday? yeah right, www.1001invetions.com

why bullshit?

 

[Michael]

Muslims invented Soup

LOL ....


Yes, Christianity was a chain around the neck of Europeans. In my mind. Sure, the idea of fellowship was great, if it weren't wrapped up in some superstitious non-sense then it would have had a great effect. Tribalism seems to trump common decency :shrug:



Just as an aside, when Arabs invaded Persian and Byzantine lands and looted their cities carting off their libraries of book in their camel laden caravans walking back to their cities - you call THIS act of STEALING preserving Greek knowledge?!?! If it weren't for Arab Muslim Crusades against their neighbors then the Persians and Europeans wouldn't have any need of THEIR BOOKS being preserved by anyone - as they were doing a Gods Damn good job of it themselves. Anyway, it's again actually a myth that Muslims reintroduced Greek and Roman literature to the West. For the vast majority of the ancient literature, there were always a number of copies kept in Italy.




I notice you said Indian numerals. Don't you mean Hindu numerology? As in Muslims use Hindu polytheistic numerology correct? At least they do if you apply your "Islamic Golden Age" logic.

 

[Michael]

you can't say that, cause each civlisation on earth shaped our modern world, even those cave men who invented the wheel, you can't deny it, why do you always try to deny the islamic civlisation in general?
check the site, and you can't deny that each civlisation on earth, shaped our world, india, china, romans, arabs, babylons, etc... and if any of those civilisation didnt exist, we would be hundreds of years behind, and if the muslim civlisation didnt also exist, we would be also hundereds of years behind, imagine a world, without chimistry, or optics, or surgery, and others... even if they didnt discovered at that time, they would be discovered in another time later, late later, also that is applied on each civilisation, like rome, if not rome, not muslim civilisation, cause teh muslim civilisation took from the world knodlge and translated books, and added to it, and invented and discovered new things by starting from that ancient knoledge, what if chinese didnt exist, what if india didnt exist... you can never deny any part of the history

I agree. But, do you notice how you keep saying "Muslim" Civilization. But then when you refer to Romans and Chinese and Indians you don't say "Polytheistic" Civilization, Tao Civilization and Hindu Civilization.

It's as if you can not apply your own logic to Arabs?



It's possible that the world may be less advanced due to the Muslim Crusades. But, it's also possible that the would would now be much more advanced? :shrug: Suppose the Byzantine were never invaded - maybe we'd be living on other planet now? Or have eternal life? Who knows? We can't really go back and have a do-over But, given that Civilization itself starting in India, China, Egypt, Crete and Mesopotamia - these Civilizations would have much more of an impact on the modern world. At least in my opinion.

What are the top 3 Arab inventions of the last 200 years?
What are the top 3 Arab inventions of all time?

 

[786]

What are the top 3 Arab inventions of the last 200 years?What are the top 3 Arab inventions of all time?

Hmm... is invention the only thing that counts? And given the state of the Muslim countries one doesn't expect advances...

Peace be unto you

 

[quadraphonics]

Hmm... is invention the only thing that counts?

Well, the thread title is "Islam Got It First..." To my ears that implies inventing things before anyone else does.

And given the state of the Muslim countries one doesn't expect advances...

Why not? Sure, inventions are probably fairly low on Iraq's list of priorities right now, but there are plenty of other Muslim countries with considerable resources to invest in education and technology, which have been stable and at peace for a long time. Saudi Arabia, for example.

Moreover, if we are going to go imputing inventions to a religion - rather than, say, an economic or political system, or an educational philosophy, or whatever else - then the "state of Muslim countries" shouldn't matter.

If, on the other hand, it is due to some change in the material state of these societies - and not a change in the religion - then what you have is an argument that the inventions flow from some secular source and not from Islam. In which case, you are unjustified in assigning any of the previous inventions to Islam as such.

 

[Michael]

Hmm... is invention the only thing that counts? And given the state of the Muslim countries one doesn't expect advances...

Peace be unto you

No not at all.

A novel change in the political system would be interesting to discuss. I'd say political policy was one of the more profound effects of the Communist Manifesto. Although the social impact can not be overstated. Chinese Communism snuffed out most of traditional Chinese cultural heritage, it did liberate women and ban polygamy. Did the pluses equal out the minuses? That's the underlying question one puts forward when they propose a Communist Golden Age and evidence it by Manned Space Flight. :shrug:

Which goes to show you that some pretty impressive advances can be accomplished under brutality repressive regime's.



Anyway, I'm not the one who states Muslims invented Soup.

 

[Michael]

Moreover, if we are going to go imputing inventions to a religion - rather than, say, an economic or political system, or an educational philosophy, or whatever else - then the "state of Muslim countries" shouldn't matter.

If, on the other hand, it is due to some change in the material state of these societies - and not a change in the religion - then what you have is an argument that the inventions flow from some secular source and not from Islam. In which case, you are unjustified in assigning any of the previous inventions to Islam as such.

Excellent point and aptly put at that.

 

[Shadow1]

.

LOL ....

lol, ok

Yes, Christianity was a chain around the neck of Europeans. In my mind. Sure, the idea of fellowship was great, if it weren't wrapped up in some superstitious non-sense then it would have had a great effect. Tribalism seems to trump common decency



Just as an aside, when Arabs invaded Persian and Byzantine lands and looted their cities carting off their libraries of book in their camel laden caravans walking back to their cities - you call THIS act of STEALING preserving Greek knowledge?!?! If it weren't for Arab Muslim Crusades against their neighbors then the Persians and Europeans wouldn't have any need of THEIR BOOKS being preserved by anyone - as they were doing a Gods Damn good job of it themselves. Anyway, it's again actually a myth that Muslims reintroduced Greek and Roman literature to the West. For the vast majority of the ancient literature, there were always a number of copies kept in Italy.

your priests and popes used to hide books and knoledge from people, and controlling eveuything, and the also the head master is the pope...

 

[Shadow1]

I agree. But, do you notice how you keep saying "Muslim" Civilization. But then when you refer to Romans and Chinese and Indians you don't say "Polytheistic" Civilization, Tao Civilization and Hindu Civilization.

It's as if you can not apply your own logic to Arabs?



It's possible that the world may be less advanced due to the Muslim Crusades. But, it's also possible that the would would now be much more advanced? :shrug: Suppose the Byzantine were never invaded - maybe we'd be living on other planet now? Or have eternal life? Who knows? We can't really go back and have a do-over But, given that Civilization itself starting in India, China, Egypt, Crete and Mesopotamia - these Civilizations would have much more of an impact on the modern world. At least in my opinion.

so you say they didnt make any affect on teh world of toaday ,and didnt invent anything, it seems you can't accept it, cause of your racist mind, ... go educate your self... but i'll respect your saying since you said in your opinion, no ptoblem,

ok, i already said why i say muslim civilisation, cause, it wasn't only arab, it was arab+persian+turks... i can't say the arabic civilisation at that time, cause the arab race don't even exist tecknickly, but it still there an arab genes...





top 3 inventions?
lol

ok, here's a small list:

1. Surgery

Around the year 1,000, the celebrated doctor Al Zahrawi published a 1,500 page illustrated encyclopedia of surgery that was used in Europe as a medical reference for the next 500 years. Among his many inventions, Zahrawi discovered the use of dissolving cat gut to stitch wounds -- beforehand a second surgery had to be performed to remove sutures. He also reportedly performed the first caesarean operation and created the first pair of forceps.

2. Coffee

Now the Western world's drink du jour, coffee was first brewed in Yemen around the 9th century. In its earliest days, coffee helped Sufis stay up during late nights of devotion. Later brought to Cairo by a group of students, the coffee buzz soon caught on around the empire. By the 13th century it reached Turkey, but not until the 16th century did the beans start boiling in Europe, brought to Italy by a Venetian trader.

3. Flying machine

"Abbas ibn Firnas was the first person to make a real attempt to construct a flying machine and fly," said Hassani. In the 9th century he designed a winged apparatus, roughly resembling a bird costume. In his most famous trial near Cordoba in Spain, Firnas flew upward for a few moments, before falling to the ground and partially breaking his back. His designs would undoubtedly have been an inspiration for famed Italian artist and inventor Leonardo da Vinci's hundreds of years later, said Hassani.

4. University

In 859 a young princess named Fatima al-Firhi founded the first degree-granting university in Fez, Morocco. Her sister Miriam founded an adjacent mosque and together the complex became the al-Qarawiyyin Mosque and University. Still operating almost 1,200 years later, Hassani says he hopes the center will remind people that learning is at the core of the Islamic tradition and that the story of the al-Firhi sisters will inspire young Muslim women around the world today.

5. Algebra

The word algebra comes from the title of a Persian mathematician's famous 9th century treatise "Kitab al-Jabr Wa l-Mugabala" which translates roughly as "The Book of Reasoning and Balancing." Built on the roots of Greek and Hindu systems, the new algebraic order was a unifying system for rational numbers, irrational numbers and geometrical magnitudes. The same mathematician, Al-Khwarizmi, was also the first to introduce the concept of raising a number to a power.

6. Optics

"Many of the most important advances in the study of optics come from the Muslim world," says Hassani. Around the year 1000 Ibn al-Haitham proved that humans see objects by light reflecting off of them and entering the eye, dismissing Euclid and Ptolemy's theories that light was emitted from the eye itself. This great Muslim physicist also discovered the camera obscura phenomenon, which explains how the eye sees images upright due to the connection between the optic nerve and the brain.

7. Music

Muslim musicians have had a profound impact on Europe, dating back to Charlemagne tried to compete with the music of Baghdad and Cordoba, according to Hassani. Among many instruments that arrived in Europe through the Middle East are the lute and the rahab, an ancestor of the violin. Modern musical scales are also said to derive from the Arabic alphabet.

8. Toothbrush

According to Hassani, the Prophet Mohammed popularized the use of the first toothbrush in around 600. Using a twig from the Meswak tree, he cleaned his teeth and freshened his breath. Substances similar to Meswak are used in modern toothpaste.

9. The crank

Many of the basics of modern automatics were first put to use in the Muslim world, including the revolutionary crank-connecting rod system. By converting rotary motion to linear motion, the crank enables the lifting of heavy objects with relative ease. This technology, discovered by Al-Jazari in the 12th century, exploded across the globe, leading to everything from the bicycle to the internal combustion engine.

10. Hospitals

"Hospitals as we know them today, with wards and teaching centers, come from 9th century Egypt," explained Hassani. The first such medical center was the Ahmad ibn Tulun Hospital, founded in 872 in Cairo. Tulun hospital provided free care for anyone who needed it -- a policy based on the Muslim tradition of caring for all who are sick. From Cairo, such hospitals spread around the Muslim world.

For more information on muslim inventions go to: muslimheritage.com. For more information about the exhibition at London's Science Museum go to: science museum.org.uk

Muslim inventions that shaped the modern world - CNN.com

http://www.radioislam.net/sindi/arab.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjZ0up5R76g
http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=117493
www.1001inventions.com
http://www.muslimlink.org/45-muslim-inventions-that-shaped-the-modern-world.html

What are the top 3 Arab inventions of the last 200 years?

oh, ok, what did you invent between 1400 years ago, and let's say, 400 years ago?

beside, why you can't accept that we can't develope, also, we are in the way to the developed world, i don't mean the muslim contries by a one contry, i mean, some muslim contries, Tunisia for example, it's on it's way to be one of the developed contries...

why you can't accept it, i mean, why you can't accept that muslims civilisation, had a great hisotry, and alot of great invetions that still used till toaday, for example, how can you imagine the world of toaday without chismitry, also, why you can't accept it that the arab contries, that can be developed contries? you really have an image about us, like, stupid people, have no scientists or thinkers, and all those people are just boght, to think for them, etc... and we don't have great mathemetians, or we have nothing, or uneducated peopl, just for your information, i'm 16, and i know alot more than you do... oh, don't forget to answer this question, don't ignore it again;

 

[Shadow1]

If, on the other hand, it is due to some change in the material state of these societies - and not a change in the religion - then what you have is an argument that the inventions flow from some secular source and not from Islam. In which case, you are unjustified in assigning any of the previous inventions to Islam as such.

those invetions are not because of relegion, not the relegion that invented, but people, but i can't say the arabic civilisation, cause, the muslim civilisation=arabs+turks+persians

 

[Shadow1]

No not at all.

A novel change in the political system would be interesting to discuss. I'd say political policy was one of the more profound effects of the Communist Manifesto. Although the social impact can not be overstated. Chinese Communism snuffed out most of traditional Chinese cultural heritage, it did liberate women and ban polygamy. Did the pluses equal out the minuses? That's the underlying question one puts forward when they propose a Communist Golden Age and evidence it by Manned Space Flight. :shrug:

Which goes to show you that some pretty impressive advances can be accomplished under brutality repressive regime's.



Anyway, I'm not the one who states Muslims invented Soup.

hahaha, about that soup thing, i just copied it, i didnt see it, lol,

and about the women liberation and keeping culture, etc.. etc... check tunisia...

 

[Shadow1]

Why not? Sure, inventions are probably fairly low on Iraq's list of priorities right now, but there are plenty of other Muslim countries with considerable resources to invest in education and technology, which have been stable and at peace for a long time. Saudi Arabia, for example.

Moreover, if we are going to go imputing inventions to a religion - rather than, say, an economic or political system, or an educational philosophy, or whatever else - then the "state of Muslim countries" shouldn't matter.

If, on the other hand, it is due to some change in the material state of these societies - and not a change in the religion - then what you have is an argument that the inventions flow from some secular source and not from Islam. In which case, you are unjustified in assigning any of the previous inventions to Islam as such.

you know what, i ask the same question, they have oil and money, why they can't make them selves on the industrual countries, and to be developed, tunisia is already industrilizing, and it already have industries abit of everything, the highest living quality in the arabs world and africa, the best education system in the arab world, and africa, the most leberated women organisation and women ecaulity with men, in the arab world, and maybe in africa after south africa i don't know, also the highest human developement in the arab world, etc...
and if we had 1/4 oil from what they have, we would be developed already.
i don't know, they just throw money away, and waste it in stupid things, but who knows about the future, maybe it will be brighyter and better, for example in saudi arabia, they are starting the car industry, a car industry, for a original cheap saudi arabian car avaible for everyone, and envirement-friendly, it still not udner developement, so, i hope a better future for them,

http://hdrstats.undp.org/en/countries/country_fact_sheets/cty_fs_TUN.html

 

[Shadow1]

.

Excellent point and aptly put at that.

yes, true, but who knows, maybe they'll change their policies...

 

[soullust]

Islam Also invented what it is like to be jealous of the west, and because of that they invented a fake god who says to kill the westerns in the name of god.

That makes all other inventions mute, they have caused more harm, then good.

but who knows maybe there people (Islamic) will remove the ones who conceived this bull shit up, untill then there all just as bad. unless they were raised and born here before there evil ways brain washed them.