Palestinian PM: We'll form de facto state by 2011

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pjdude1219 said:
this might just spark a war with Israel and it would be one that wouldn't have western backing. You know the palestinians are going to use force to open the settlements to all and you know Israel is going to invade(probably with the intent to annex I don't they have ever been in a war where their wasn't some attempt to get land out of it) to "protect" the settlers their despite it is in fact illegal for them to be there. This might provide the spark needed to start of the chain of events that will get peace between Israel and those it opresses.
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I think the Palestinians want the world to recognise their pain and so this time around they will not force anything. Just listen to the reports coming out of Bilin. Inspite of the kidnapping of Mohammed Khatib the leader of the nonviolent resistance movement by Israelis, they are sticking to their determination to keep the movement going.

http://palsolidarity.org/2009/08/7982
 
otheadp said:
What exactly are you talking about?
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Reality

Jews in pre-Israel Palestine worked very hard on creating infrastructure on almost barren land,
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Yeah it was so barren the land produced enough food to export to southern france to prevent a famine and this was 150 year before the jews were anything but a blip. that just propaganda that you have been taught to repeat.
with the British occupation and Arab terrorists doing massacres and sabotage.
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What about the jewish terrorists. and the british helped the jews dick over the arabs.

The difference between those Jews and today's fake so-called people called "Palestinians" is that the Jews really really wanted a country.
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God what a bigot you are. Nothing fake about the palestinians. and the palestinians wanted a country.
They wanted self-governance.
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In a place where they were in no place a majority. They wanted to strip people of their rights for their wants.
They wanted independence.
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So doesn't mean they had a right to steal from the palestinians.
So they went and got it.
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through conquest.
They built it with their own hands.
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They didn't build shit. They just took what others had done in the region.
But given the decades of "Palestinians'" foregoing the many opportunities and countless dollars (and franks, and marcs, and other Western money) thrown at them, it is without a doubt when many people say that they don't want a state.
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Kind of hard to build a state when assholes keep destroying your infastructure. and they have repeatedly tried to create a state but were prevented by others.
They want to kill the Jews, push them to the sea,
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No they don't. Their only beef with the jews is they stole their country from them.
but they don't really want self-governance and the responsibility that comes with it -- taxes, garbage picking, civil society, court system not ruled by the gun / fist, etc.
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Yes they do its hard to have a functioning country when a agressive racist country of assholes prevents you from growing politically and economically.

Fayyad, a guy who has NO base or political support, is a westernized technocrat who is in the tiny minority of "Palestinians" who actually DO want a state, and so he is building one. I wish him luck.
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Most palestinians want a state. Quit believing the bigoted shit your jewish leaders are shoving down your throat and go learn the truth.
 
spidergoat said:
They won't have any luck forming a state until Fatah and Hamas can get along.
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once they get the west bank going so long if Israel doesn't try and destroy it( which isn't likely) it will cause the problems to go away. once they unify they can than work and gaining what Israel took from them by appealing to the international community.
 
Despite all the banter and poorly lettered comments in this thread, I still think this is a progressive step in the peace process. The more Palestinian citizens have to lose Economically, and foremost Socially...the more discouraging it will be for them to engage in terrorist activities, inherently strengthening the peace process.
 
I hope you're right. But Israel controls West Bank aquifers and also the natural gas reserves off Gaza. I don't think it will be easy to get them to give up either.
 
CheskiChips said:
Despite all the banter and poorly lettered comments in this thread, I still think this is a progressive step in the peace process. The more Palestinian citizens have to lose Economically, and foremost Socially...the more discouraging it will be for them to engage in terrorist activities, inherently strengthening the peace process.
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Do you really think Israel is just going to allow something to happen that would lay 60 years worth of propaganda bare for what it is? There is going to be a war over this to many people have to much to gain by it not being allowed to succeed.
 
pjdude1219 said:
Do you really think Israel is just going to allow something to happen that would lay 60 years worth of propaganda bare for what it is? There is going to be a war over this to many people have to much to gain by it not being allowed to succeed.
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Yes. Because Israel gets no benefit out of Palestinian poverty.
 
CheskiChips said:
Yes. Because Israel gets no benefit out of Palestinian poverty.
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Isreal wants the land the settlements prove that. The Israeli right can not afford to have the Israeli population look at arabs as anything less than the enemy. Than you have the extremists in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and other places who would lose their scape goat in Israel if the palestinians get a country and peace comes about as well as peaceful means to have the palestinians regain what was taken from them.
 
pjdude1219 said:
Isreal wants the land the settlements prove that. The Israeli right can not afford to have the Israeli population look at arabs as anything less than the enemy. Than you have the extremists in Iran, Saudi Arabia, and other places who would lose their scape goat in Israel if the palestinians get a country and peace comes about as well as peaceful means to have the palestinians regain what was taken from them.
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Religious Zionists create the settlements, they don't control state policy. The state as a whole has very little to gain, from the perspective of the government this is a very positive situation. Saudi Arabia currently has lifted most of its bans on Israel and does very little to interfere in Israeli affairs. Iran perhaps has some stake, though the rest of the region would be displeased with anyone who destroyed any semblance of peace in the region.

If they find financial backing for infrastructure, this is a very effective technique.
 
CheskiChips said:
Religious Zionists create the settlements, they don't control state policy.
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The Israeli right still has a stake and still wants the land if they didn't they would send the IDF to protect them.
The state as a whole has very little to gain, from the perspective of the government this is a very positive situation.
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Peace favors the Israeli left the Israeli right is not going to want to lose power and you cannot deny it relies on a far more hawkish and negative view of arabs and the palestinians.
Saudi Arabia currently has lifted most of its bans on Israel and does very little to interfere in Israeli affairs. Iran perhaps has some stake, though the rest of the region would be displeased with anyone who destroyed any semblance of peace in the region.
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still ruled by an autocrats. a secular republic which is what the palestinian state would likely be would prosper which could likely set off secular revolutions in multiple states like Iran and turkey and pushes for reform toward secular republics in others. The ruling autocrats aren't going to like that.

If they find financial backing for infrastructure, this is a very effective technique.
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They'll get it. Its to golden of a chance for them not. the US, Europe, and the Israeli left will see to it
 
The PA has already offered Palestinian citizenship to the settlers, I think that is reasonable no sense in making another 500,000 people homeless. And Jews should be allowed to live in Palestine too.

A secular Palestine would be more likely to stabilise the region than a Judenrein one.
 
The deck is stacked in more ways than that. If a hobbled Palestinian state created, its attempts to stand will still provide the customary pretext for continued Israeli domination, and for the perpetuation of apartheid within an "accomodated" Israel. In other words: Nothing will change with "sovereign" Palestinian cantons, and the fighting will grind on.

I don't place any hope in Fayyad's proclamation, because I see Israel & Palestine as inextricably intertwined peoples, that must learn to live together within one country, as in any other modern multi-ethnic society.
 
This is what the Palestinians have to contend with in their struggle for independence from the Zionist occupation:

The Quartet's Middle East envoy Tony Blair has warned that Israeli intrasigence could cost the Palestinain Authority millions of dollars in losses one one of the West Bank's most important economic projects, even as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu outlines his economic peace vision abroad.

Blair's comments in a written Quartet document, add to Palestinian Authority claims that Israel is violating the agreement to allocate frequencies to operate the Palestinians' second cellular phone company in the West Bank, Wataniya Mobile. The company has threatened to pull out of the deal.

If Israel delays releasing the frequencies any further, Wataniya Mobile's $700 million investment in the West Bank could go down the drain and other investors could be deterred, Blair wrote in the document published recently.
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http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1110506.html

It really does not matter how much aid is poured into Palestinian state building as long as the Zionists have their fingers around the throat of the Palestinians, choking them to death.
 
otheadp said:
This is a 180 degree turnaround from decades of doing the exact opposite. Good. Build your self a de-facto apparatus. Being a country is not based on declarations, it is based on being a country. Having state infrastructure. Israel was already a de-facto state for decades on the day of its declaration. You (Fayyad) is undoubtedly using Israel's example.

Well, good for him. Let's see how far it gets.
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Of course. "Collateral Damage" from a few air raids might just reduce his infrastructure, like so much of Palestinian Infrastructure.
 
Im all for the first ever state of Palestine. A new country would be great.

Now if Hamas and Fatah can stop killing each other and form a government of national unity then that would be really fantastic.

Are Palestinians pshycologically read for their first ever country? Im not sure... I hope they are.
 
Challenger78 said:
Of course. "Collateral Damage" from a few air raids might just reduce his infrastructure, like so much of Palestinian Infrastructure.
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This "building a state" business is supposed to come together with "recognizing Israel" and "renouncing terrorism and murder" business.
 
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