14 centuries. But the Jews were living outside Jerusalem centuries before that.
4 arrested in NYC for conspiracy to blow up a synagogue
- Thread starter otheadp
- Start date
14 centuries. But the Jews were living outside Jerusalem centuries before that.
There's a big difference between 14 centuries and 20 centuries.
According to Wikipedia, "Jerusalem has been the holiest city in Judaism and the spiritual center of the Jewish people since the 10th century BCE..."
No friend, I am not. Humor is a tonic for sanity.
This is pure predictable anti Muslim propaganda from the utterly ignorant for the incredibly ignorant. Its so predictable its funny.
Is this really the state of terrorism in America?
An interesting—depressing—picture of the Newburgh Four is emerging in the days following their arrest. Charles Mudede at Slog describes them as, "Bringing shame to the international profession of terrorism". Zachary Roth, at TPM Muckraker writes,
Let us start, then, with the informant. Murray Weiss and Dan Mangan, of the bombastic New York Post identify him as Shahed Hussain, 52. Roth notes that, "It's unclear how the Post got Hussain's name", and a US Attorney's spokeswoman told TPM Muckraker that the informant's identity was not yet released by the government. The Post article, however, said that,
If the informant is, indeed, Shahed Hussain, we can expect to hear much about his history if the case goes to trial. A motel owner in upstate New York, Hussain originally became an informant in 2002 after being charged with fraud when authorities apparently caught him helping immigrants cheat on their driver's tests. At the time, Hussain worked as a translator for the Department of Motor Vehicles. He exchanged his cooperation for leniency in that court process and in order to avoid deportation to Pakistan.
Hussain, according to the Post, then helped sting a pizzeria owner, Mohammed Hossain, in a money laundering scheme to facilitate an assassination that also nabbed Yassin Aref, an Albany imam. Both men were convicted and sentenced to fifteen years in prison. Aref's attorney described Hussain as "a liar and a sneak and a trickster", while Hossain's lawyer accused the informant of lying to his FBI contacts about the case.
Of the plotters, we see in their stories a sad, and even frightening tale of the transition from basic thuggery to domestic terrorism. David Cromartie, described as the plot ringleader, has served twelve years in prison over various stints, including his most recent for selling drugs to undercover officers at a school. During his most recent incarcerations, Cromartie apparently underwent a conversion from Baptist to Muslim, telling relatives after his last prison term that he had changed his name to Abdul Rahman. His mother says that the last time she saw him, the first time in fifteen years, she told him to, "Get out of here." Cromartie is considered an habitual liar; he told the government informant that his parents had lived in Afghanistan before he was born, and that contributed in part to his anger at American killing of Muslims in that nation. His mother claims that neither she nor David Cromartie's absent father ever lived in Afghanistan. Authorities believe the Afghanistan claim was intended to boost his credibility as a terrorist. And a relative of Cromartie's girlfriend said, "He was always making up big-time stories. Big whoppers about everything. He would just lie for conversation."
David Williams is the father of two children, and recently moved to Newburgh to help care for his younger brother, a terminal cancer patient. Described as "a very sensitive man" by a longtime friend, and "a beautiful person in and out" by his girlfriend, the case against Williams paints a very different picture. He bought a gun from an alleged street gang leader and, according to the government informant, said he would have shot the seller and kept the money, but they were not alone when the deal went down. And prosecutors describe Williams as "boasting he'd shoot anyone who tried to stop him".
Onta Williams, who has no apparent relation to David, allegedly said that killing Americans with IEDs and Stingers was "equal" to the killing of Muslims in other countries. His lawyer for a 2003 sentencing said Onta Williams had been a cocaine addict since his teen years. According to Williams' uncle, the man was "brainwashed" by Muslims while serving prison time, also citing the death of his mother and a custody battle with his ex wife. His sister describes him as once being fun, enjoying music and comedic impersonations, but said of him recently that "he's, like, the dumbest person on Earth".
And then there is Laguerre Payen, described by Roth as, well—
It is hard to picture these four as being typical terrorists, even though most people tend to view terrorism as being outside the pale of normal behavior. But the question arises: This is who we busted. Is this really the threat that we face?
If so, it's hard to figure what to say about where our defense against terrorism should focus. Then again, it would also be a compelling suggestion that efforts to reduce poverty, improve education, and identify and treat mental illness could, indeed, have national security implications.
The case of the Newburgh Four is sure to inspire much disgust, but there are also lessons for Americans to consider. We cannot fight terrorism simply with guns and bombs and elaborate law enforcement stings. The roots of terrorism can germinate from very common seeds within a society, and simply hacking down the weeds, per se won't stop them from arising anew.
____________________
Notes:
Mudede, Charles. "Sleeping Cell". Slog. May 24, 2009. Slog.TheStranger.com. Accessed May 24, 2009. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/05/24/the-sleeping-cell
Roth, Zachary. "The Newburgh Four -- And The Goverment Mole Who Betrayed Them". TPM Muckraker. May 22, 2009. TPMmuckraker.TalkingPointsMemo.com. Accessed May 24, 2009. http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...rgh_four_--_and_the_goverment_mole_who_be.php
Weiss, Murray and Dan Mangan. "Informant Fingered $$ Launder Duo". New York Post. May 22, 2009. NewYorkPost.com. Accessed May 24, 2009. http://www.nypost.com/seven/05222009/news/regionalnews/informant_fingered__launder_duo_170475.htm
An interesting—depressing—picture of the Newburgh Four is emerging in the days following their arrest. Charles Mudede at Slog describes them as, "Bringing shame to the international profession of terrorism". Zachary Roth, at TPM Muckraker writes,
It's easy to laugh at this gang of goons -- and we've done our share of that. But, frankly, it's also hard not to feel some compassion for what looks like a group of struggling, credulous, under-educated men, existing on the fringes of society, who lacked the intelligence or willpower to avoid getting taken in by a government informant anxious to mitigate his own situation, and by their own vague understanding of radical Islam and the hole it might fill in their lives.
And as for what this might say about the threat of home-grown terror, it's almost reassuring that the biggest terror bust we've seen in a while has this sad-sack group at his center.
And as for what this might say about the threat of home-grown terror, it's almost reassuring that the biggest terror bust we've seen in a while has this sad-sack group at his center.
Let us start, then, with the informant. Murray Weiss and Dan Mangan, of the bombastic New York Post identify him as Shahed Hussain, 52. Roth notes that, "It's unclear how the Post got Hussain's name", and a US Attorney's spokeswoman told TPM Muckraker that the informant's identity was not yet released by the government. The Post article, however, said that,
Several of the informant's tenants told The Post that he claims to be a "spy" for the FBI, and that he "blew out of here Tuesday night." One tenant said the cooperator was on the telephone "a few weeks back . . . telling somebody about buying guns."
If the informant is, indeed, Shahed Hussain, we can expect to hear much about his history if the case goes to trial. A motel owner in upstate New York, Hussain originally became an informant in 2002 after being charged with fraud when authorities apparently caught him helping immigrants cheat on their driver's tests. At the time, Hussain worked as a translator for the Department of Motor Vehicles. He exchanged his cooperation for leniency in that court process and in order to avoid deportation to Pakistan.
Hussain, according to the Post, then helped sting a pizzeria owner, Mohammed Hossain, in a money laundering scheme to facilitate an assassination that also nabbed Yassin Aref, an Albany imam. Both men were convicted and sentenced to fifteen years in prison. Aref's attorney described Hussain as "a liar and a sneak and a trickster", while Hossain's lawyer accused the informant of lying to his FBI contacts about the case.
Of the plotters, we see in their stories a sad, and even frightening tale of the transition from basic thuggery to domestic terrorism. David Cromartie, described as the plot ringleader, has served twelve years in prison over various stints, including his most recent for selling drugs to undercover officers at a school. During his most recent incarcerations, Cromartie apparently underwent a conversion from Baptist to Muslim, telling relatives after his last prison term that he had changed his name to Abdul Rahman. His mother says that the last time she saw him, the first time in fifteen years, she told him to, "Get out of here." Cromartie is considered an habitual liar; he told the government informant that his parents had lived in Afghanistan before he was born, and that contributed in part to his anger at American killing of Muslims in that nation. His mother claims that neither she nor David Cromartie's absent father ever lived in Afghanistan. Authorities believe the Afghanistan claim was intended to boost his credibility as a terrorist. And a relative of Cromartie's girlfriend said, "He was always making up big-time stories. Big whoppers about everything. He would just lie for conversation."
David Williams is the father of two children, and recently moved to Newburgh to help care for his younger brother, a terminal cancer patient. Described as "a very sensitive man" by a longtime friend, and "a beautiful person in and out" by his girlfriend, the case against Williams paints a very different picture. He bought a gun from an alleged street gang leader and, according to the government informant, said he would have shot the seller and kept the money, but they were not alone when the deal went down. And prosecutors describe Williams as "boasting he'd shoot anyone who tried to stop him".
Onta Williams, who has no apparent relation to David, allegedly said that killing Americans with IEDs and Stingers was "equal" to the killing of Muslims in other countries. His lawyer for a 2003 sentencing said Onta Williams had been a cocaine addict since his teen years. According to Williams' uncle, the man was "brainwashed" by Muslims while serving prison time, also citing the death of his mother and a custody battle with his ex wife. His sister describes him as once being fun, enjoying music and comedic impersonations, but said of him recently that "he's, like, the dumbest person on Earth".
And then there is Laguerre Payen, described by Roth as, well—
- Maybe the most pathetic of a pathetic bunch, Payen was unemployed and took medication for schizophrenia. A law enforcement source said that on Wednesday night, Payen "was off his meds - needing to be particularly crazy to do the deed." He was hospitalized after the arrest.
- His lawyer said he is "intellectually challenged" and has "a very low borderline" IQ.
- A cousin said his mother is also mentally ill, and his father is dead. She said doesn't think Payen knows how to read.
- A recent visitor to his apartment said it contained bottles of urine, and raw chicken on the stovetop. Elsewhere it was described as a "filthy crack den."
- He had previously served 15 months for assault, after driving around the Orthodox-Jew-heavy town Monsey, firing a BB gun out of the window. He struck two teens, and also snatched two purses.
- He was supposed to be deported back to Haiti, but an immigration judge stayed the sentence, because he was judged insane.
- His lawyer said he is "intellectually challenged" and has "a very low borderline" IQ.
- A cousin said his mother is also mentally ill, and his father is dead. She said doesn't think Payen knows how to read.
- A recent visitor to his apartment said it contained bottles of urine, and raw chicken on the stovetop. Elsewhere it was described as a "filthy crack den."
- He had previously served 15 months for assault, after driving around the Orthodox-Jew-heavy town Monsey, firing a BB gun out of the window. He struck two teens, and also snatched two purses.
- He was supposed to be deported back to Haiti, but an immigration judge stayed the sentence, because he was judged insane.
It is hard to picture these four as being typical terrorists, even though most people tend to view terrorism as being outside the pale of normal behavior. But the question arises: This is who we busted. Is this really the threat that we face?
If so, it's hard to figure what to say about where our defense against terrorism should focus. Then again, it would also be a compelling suggestion that efforts to reduce poverty, improve education, and identify and treat mental illness could, indeed, have national security implications.
The case of the Newburgh Four is sure to inspire much disgust, but there are also lessons for Americans to consider. We cannot fight terrorism simply with guns and bombs and elaborate law enforcement stings. The roots of terrorism can germinate from very common seeds within a society, and simply hacking down the weeds, per se won't stop them from arising anew.
____________________
Notes:
Mudede, Charles. "Sleeping Cell". Slog. May 24, 2009. Slog.TheStranger.com. Accessed May 24, 2009. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/05/24/the-sleeping-cell
Roth, Zachary. "The Newburgh Four -- And The Goverment Mole Who Betrayed Them". TPM Muckraker. May 22, 2009. TPMmuckraker.TalkingPointsMemo.com. Accessed May 24, 2009. http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...rgh_four_--_and_the_goverment_mole_who_be.php
Weiss, Murray and Dan Mangan. "Informant Fingered $$ Launder Duo". New York Post. May 22, 2009. NewYorkPost.com. Accessed May 24, 2009. http://www.nypost.com/seven/05222009/news/regionalnews/informant_fingered__launder_duo_170475.htm
A grip on reality verses paranoia would help it seems.
Keeping the FEAR alive.
A fair appraisal.
(http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6350389.ece)
These very dangerous
m "Muslim" suspects were "angry and full of hate for America".What a load of bollocks.
It's sobering to stop and contemplate just how many citizens of the US might just take a shot at a military aircraft (or try and blow something up), if someone were willing to provide them with the missile or explosives to do it with. I'm reminded of Jack Handey when he said "I wish a robot would get elected president. That way, when he came to town, we could all take a shot at him, and not feel too bad."
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Yes, it is easy with the Liberal Suicide Pact interpretation of the Constitution, to have many people in the U.S. willing to;
USAmericans can take pride and comfort as one US manufacturing sector is growing rapidly, sure to pervade this brave new American Century. Hero & villain production is sweeping the nation, and security/nanny-state futures are soaring.
Must ... be ... afraid ...?
Perhaps your day isn't complete without someone to be mortally afraid of. I don't know, is that something they teach you in the military, Mr. Roam? If you haven't been frightened to incoherence, you just haven't done your duty today?
But for those of us trapped in reality, it's been a bit hard to take the War Against Terror seriously. I live in an area with three port cities (Tacoma, Everett, Seattle) and two naval facilities (Everett, Bremerton), and the one thing that has yet to happen in the seven and a half years since 9/11 is the "securing" of our ports to any degree remotely resembling what the TSA is doing at airports or any number of conservative lap dogs have ranted about the Mexican border.
Look, TWAT just isn't important enough to American politicians to actually close this gaping hole in our defenses. Like the several other major plots allegedly busted, one of the major questions we're left facing is, Really? This is what we're up against?
And, of course, another is, Where are the real terrorists?
____________________
Notes:
Froomkin, Dan. "Bush's Counterterrorism Record: 0 for 1". White House Watch. December 18, 2008. WashingtonPost.com. Accessed May 25, 2009. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/12/18/BL2008121802193.html
Buffalo Roam said:
Perhaps your day isn't complete without someone to be mortally afraid of. I don't know, is that something they teach you in the military, Mr. Roam? If you haven't been frightened to incoherence, you just haven't done your duty today?
But for those of us trapped in reality, it's been a bit hard to take the War Against Terror seriously. I live in an area with three port cities (Tacoma, Everett, Seattle) and two naval facilities (Everett, Bremerton), and the one thing that has yet to happen in the seven and a half years since 9/11 is the "securing" of our ports to any degree remotely resembling what the TSA is doing at airports or any number of conservative lap dogs have ranted about the Mexican border.
Look, TWAT just isn't important enough to American politicians to actually close this gaping hole in our defenses. Like the several other major plots allegedly busted, one of the major questions we're left facing is, Really? This is what we're up against?
And, of course, another is, Where are the real terrorists?
____________________
Notes:
Froomkin, Dan. "Bush's Counterterrorism Record: 0 for 1". White House Watch. December 18, 2008. WashingtonPost.com. Accessed May 25, 2009. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/12/18/BL2008121802193.html
More regarding disinformation and manipulation.
The only threat here is the FBI and the evaporation of American "freedom". Don`t forget what you were told:
(http://www.nypost.com/seven/0523200...end__they_were_tricked_by_g_170683.htm?page=0)
The only threat here is the FBI and the evaporation of American "freedom". Don`t forget what you were told:
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
As to your trapped in reality? where do you see me saying that we shouldn't secure the ports?
Now who is the ones dragging their feet on securing the boarder and the ports?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/07/AR2008040702361.html
Democrats to Challenge Plans to Finish Border Fence
The Washington Post | April 8, 2008 | .
Fourteen House Democrats, including eight committee chairmen, said yesterday that they will file a brief supporting a legal challenge to the Bush administration's plans to finish building 470 miles of fencing and other barriers on the U.S.-Mexico border by the end of the year.
Homeland Security Committee Chairman Bennie G. Thompson (D- Miss.) led the group, which includes the heads of the energy and commerce, transportation, intelligence, education, rules, and ...
Yes, none other than the Democratic Chairman of Homeland Security
Tat! Ta! Ta! Dah!
Committee Chairman Bennie G. Thompson (D-Miss.) .
Yes Tiassia.
Last edited:
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Oh Tiassia, how about this?
http://maloney.house.gov/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1259&Itemid=61
The First 100 Hours: Stronger National Security
9/11 Families Join Bipartisan Members to Express Optimism About Implementation of 9/11 Commission Recommendations
WASHINGTON, DC – As the House of Representatives considered comprehensive legislation to implement the 9/11 Commission’s recommendations, leading bipartisan Members of Congress joined with 9/11 family members today to reiterate the importance of the legislation for America’s national security. H.R. 1 is part of the Democrats’ First 100 Hours agenda, which addresses a number of core issues for all Americans, from national security to education to health care.
Among other provisions, H.R. 1 aims to strengthen security by:
providing fairer funding for first responders in the most targeted communities,
implementing 100% screening of air cargo,
implementing 100% screening of cargo coming in to U.S. ports,
preventing proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and terrorism, and
expanding the U.S.’s diplomatic outreach.
Members of Congress who spoke at the press conference today were Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY), co-chair of the 9/11 Commission Caucus; Rep. Edward Markey (D-MA), author of air and cargo security legislation; Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY), author of port security legislation; Rep. Christopher Shays (R-CT), co-chair of the 9/11 Commission Caucus; Rep. Joseph Crowley (D-NY), a longtime champion of high-threat first responder funding and relative of a 9/11 victim; and Rep. John Hall (D-NY), a new Member from New York State.
The Democrats talk a good fight but what have the done? what legislation have they enacted? They have had the control since Jamuary 1 2007, and just how seroiusly have they taken the War of Terror?
It seems that all they have done, is find ways to, slow down, obstruct, and belittle all efforts to deal with Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorism.
I find it halarious that now that they have control of all three branchs of government, and will catch the full blaim if something happens, what are they doing? Continuing on with the Policies of George W Bush and his adminisration.
And where has Obamas policy of constructive engagements gotten us?
"I will talk to N.Korea, and Iran"
Yes Obamas policy has lead to;
Defying world powers, N. Korea conducts nuke test
By JEAN H. LEE Associated Press Writer The Associated Press
Monday, May 25, 2009 12:58 PM EDT
SEOUL, South Korea (AP) — North Korea defied world powers and carried out an underground test Monday of a nuclear bomb Russian officials said was comparable to those that obliterated Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Last month, Pyongyang launched a rocket despite international calls for restraint, abandoned international nuclear negotiations, restarted its nuclear plants and warned it would carry out the atomic and long-range missile tests.
Iran tests missile with range that can hit Israel
By ALI AKBAR DAREINI Associated Press Writer The Associated Press
Wednesday, May 20, 2009 11:56 AM EDT
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iran tested its longest-range solid-fuel missile Wednesday — a launch that displayed Tehran's reach and burnished the president's hardline reputation ahead of next month's election.
The missile was said to be capable of striking Israel, U.S. Mideast bases and Europe.
http://maloney.house.gov/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1259&Itemid=61
The First 100 Hours: Stronger National Security
9/11 Families Join Bipartisan Members to Express Optimism About Implementation of 9/11 Commission Recommendations
WASHINGTON, DC – As the House of Representatives considered comprehensive legislation to implement the 9/11 Commission’s recommendations, leading bipartisan Members of Congress joined with 9/11 family members today to reiterate the importance of the legislation for America’s national security. H.R. 1 is part of the Democrats’ First 100 Hours agenda, which addresses a number of core issues for all Americans, from national security to education to health care.
Among other provisions, H.R. 1 aims to strengthen security by:
providing fairer funding for first responders in the most targeted communities,
implementing 100% screening of air cargo,
implementing 100% screening of cargo coming in to U.S. ports,
preventing proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and terrorism, and
expanding the U.S.’s diplomatic outreach.
Members of Congress who spoke at the press conference today were Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY), co-chair of the 9/11 Commission Caucus; Rep. Edward Markey (D-MA), author of air and cargo security legislation; Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY), author of port security legislation; Rep. Christopher Shays (R-CT), co-chair of the 9/11 Commission Caucus; Rep. Joseph Crowley (D-NY), a longtime champion of high-threat first responder funding and relative of a 9/11 victim; and Rep. John Hall (D-NY), a new Member from New York State.
The Democrats talk a good fight but what have the done? what legislation have they enacted? They have had the control since Jamuary 1 2007, and just how seroiusly have they taken the War of Terror?
It seems that all they have done, is find ways to, slow down, obstruct, and belittle all efforts to deal with Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorism.
I find it halarious that now that they have control of all three branchs of government, and will catch the full blaim if something happens, what are they doing? Continuing on with the Policies of George W Bush and his adminisration.
And where has Obamas policy of constructive engagements gotten us?
"I will talk to N.Korea, and Iran"
Yes Obamas policy has lead to;
Defying world powers, N. Korea conducts nuke test
By JEAN H. LEE Associated Press Writer The Associated Press
Monday, May 25, 2009 12:58 PM EDT
SEOUL, South Korea (AP) — North Korea defied world powers and carried out an underground test Monday of a nuclear bomb Russian officials said was comparable to those that obliterated Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Last month, Pyongyang launched a rocket despite international calls for restraint, abandoned international nuclear negotiations, restarted its nuclear plants and warned it would carry out the atomic and long-range missile tests.
Iran tests missile with range that can hit Israel
By ALI AKBAR DAREINI Associated Press Writer The Associated Press
Wednesday, May 20, 2009 11:56 AM EDT
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iran tested its longest-range solid-fuel missile Wednesday — a launch that displayed Tehran's reach and burnished the president's hardline reputation ahead of next month's election.
The missile was said to be capable of striking Israel, U.S. Mideast bases and Europe.
Incredible. I think we should BAN American and European ICBM`s. They are capable of carrying nukes and of striking Iran, Pakistan, China, North Korea, Russia, Belarus, Somalia and "insert current rogue nation here".
If not, WHY not?
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Ah, yes, and when was the last time that the U.S. promised to wipe them from the records of time.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Name them.
SAM, stfu.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Bush doesnt even cualify as a regime.
Have you not noticed? The US is steadily working through a list. 1. Afghanistan. 2. Iraq. 3. Pakistan. 4. Iran. 5. TBA
Only problem is, they are not achieving much success.
And the actual question was, why should we NOT ban US ICBM`s?