Drug Fun!

Asguard said:
stryder, with respect.

Please dont talk about what you have no idea about, you may be a great computer programer but you have no experiance in mental health and im sorry but atitudes like that cost lives.
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Oh dear. It's you that doesn't know what they are talking about. Stryder has been there, done that, and has the tee-shirt.

It's far easier to give someone a pill to pop, than to address the lifestyle and health points Stryder mentions. People don't like being told to eat better, and exercise more. To cut out the booze and caffeine, and sleep properly. But give them a pill?

I'm with Stryder on this, I see too many people with problems they could solve with common sense. People who should know better too.
 
Asguard said:
stryder, with respect.

Please dont talk about what you have no idea about, you may be a great computer programer but you have no experiance in mental health and im sorry but atitudes like that cost lives.
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Asguard,
Psychiatric doctors giving prescriptions is more of a threat to lives. You see those drugs do have side effects and often people aren't told about them, they find out for themselves. When a person is placed onto medication enough to make them drool, shuffle and be unable to even put a jumper on, they think more about their untimely demise and become depressed adding to the problem not removing it.

The point is that any artificial drugs is meant to increase chemical reactions in the brain, however the amount they increase it by isn't regulated based upon a localised effect. It's "hit and miss" in regards to dosage and effect.
 
It is hit and miss, but that doesn't mean it doesn't significantly improve the quality of life for the people taking them if a good balance is found. You try something and it doesn't work, you try something else.

My thirteen year old is bipolar, with paranoid schizophrenic tendencies as well. He's been on medication since he was eight, when he was hospitalized in a mental facility for trying to stab another child, writing obsessive and threatening notes to a female student and then trying to hang himself. He was eight. No reason for it, he's had a very stable life with lots of love and affection and no violence or inconsistency in the home. I know because I have had many home visits from psychiatrists and behavioral specialists as well as being extensively psychologically tested myself. He's tried to step in front of cars, he's cruel to anyone smaller than he is, was failing school and causing trouble there, the teachers were even afraid of him. One minute he was balling, the next he was raging at people... at least he was like this until he got put on one of the drugs you seem to think you understand and are discouraging people from taking. We found the right balance for my child, and now he's not at all violent, is doing very well in school, still has some minor issues with stealing things but he's not harming himself or others, he's not being as obsessive as he was, and he's actually smiling. I can tell when he doesn't take his meds in the morning, because by the evening, he's agitated and moody. His father (my first husband) was exactly the same way, but all grown up and it's definitely a chemical imbalance in his brain that causes it, because it is fixed when he is on the medication.

There are millions of people like my son, both milder and more extreme examples that are being helped by the drugs you are vilifying. It's not junk science, and some of those people would easily harm themselves or others if they were not on medication. To say that the drugs aren't important is to not understand the problem or the people having issues.

On the medication, my son is a functioning member of all of his social units, without them... he'll be in a jumpsuit... but whether it will be a psychiatric facility or jail would be anyone's guess.

You simply cannot just dismiss those kinds of drugs just because they have side effects because of the quality of life it gives my child and millions of other people like my child.
 
Stryder said:
Asguard,
Psychiatric doctors giving prescriptions is more of a threat to lives. You see those drugs do have side effects and often people aren't told about them, they find out for themselves. When a person is placed onto medication enough to make them drool, shuffle and be unable to even put a jumper on, they think more about their untimely demise and become depressed adding to the problem not removing it.

The point is that any artificial drugs is meant to increase chemical reactions in the brain, however the amount they increase it by isn't regulated based upon a localised effect. It's "hit and miss" in regards to dosage and effect.
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Not to mention antibiotic resistance.. to keep it general.
 
I think Stryder refered to the self-induced neurological problems. These things on the list:


Stryder said:
A normal human brain functions under the assumption that:
  • A fully complemented diet is provided (Covering full nutrition).
  • Approximately 8 hours of total sleep per day.
  • Sleep occurs during the night and waking is done in the morning.
  • Personal hygiene is high. (Having shower, washing hair and brushing teeth regularly)
  • No poisons or abuses (No smoking, heavy drinking or indulgences of Caffeine or sugar. Also environmental poisons should be listed, i.e. if you working as a welder will subject you to various gases that aren't healthy in the long run).
  • At least 30 minutes of Exercise a day. (Enough to get your heart pumping and increasing your breathing)

If a person was able to deal with all the above appropriately, then they should have less or no "Physical" neurological problems.
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if they are ignored, surely will disturb the body function. For this, prevention is better than curing because it can minimize the side-effect of taking drugs. There are however cases like Liebling's son (I am sorry to hear that, Liebling) or like my brother (who had neck infection), where drugs are best alternative. Thanks to the medication! :)
 
But Stryder ignores and even rejects the idea that people have actual chemical imbalances that cause these problems even if all of those things were met. Because I go to a bipolar/paranoid schizophrenic support group, I know that there is nothing that they can do to chemically balance themselves. When it comes to issues so serious like that, you cannot understand unless you are directly effected by it. Until you see the night and day difference in the person. I doubt that at eight years old, a child can really manifest loads of specific psychological symptoms because he wants to be medicated.

There is a woman I know who has many children and three of them are bipolar. Her four year old tried to jump out a window at school to "avoid hurting people" because he knew he couldn't control it himself.

Sometimes, there are chemical brain functions that can be out of whack, and no amount of following the list Stryder gave will solve their problems. To tell people that it's all they have to do to feel better is negligent and unsympathetic. It's cruel because it makes already vulnerable people feel like there is something very wrong with them that they should be able to fix themselves. It's a huge blow to the self-esteem to feel like you are trying really hard and should be able to overcome your issues because someone says something like that to them, but they can never reach that goal and it defeats them yet again.

Bottom line is that if you haven't studied psychiatry, you really shouldn't be doling out advise on a forum about psychiatry.
 
Liebling said:
But Stryder ignores and even rejects the idea that people have actual chemical imbalances that cause these problems even if all of those things were met.
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Where did he say that? He said;

Stryder said:
If a person was able to deal with all the above appropriately, then they should have less or no "Physical" neurological problems.
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(emphasis mine)

Nowhere did he reject anything. Perhaps it would help if you read other people's posts before criticising them.
 
phlogistician said:
Where did he say that? He said;



(emphasis mine)

Nowhere did he reject anything. Perhaps it would help if you read other people's posts before criticising them.
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He said they should have less or none at all. And then went on to say that medicines are too dangerous to be of much benefit because it's too "hit and miss".

Stryder said:
The point is that any artificial drugs is meant to increase chemical reactions in the brain, however the amount they increase it by isn't regulated based upon a localised effect. It's "hit and miss" in regards to dosage and effect.
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I can take bits and pieces of almost any post and make it out of context.

Don't you think that saying that to a person who has real chemical imbalances, says, "Hey, you can be normal if you just do these things." gives them an unattainable goal and can lead to a further decline of their self-esteem?

But you are right, he didn't completely reject it. But the problem with bipolars is that they don't think they have a problem, and they often will find any reason at all to not take drugs. Some of them need to be medicated. Britney Spears is a good case in point, my son is another. I have no doubt that my son would have killed himself by now had he gone unmedicated and/or followed Stryders advice.
 
Liebling said:
Don't you think that saying that to a person who has real chemical imbalances, says, "Hey, you can be normal if you just do these things." gives them an unattainable goal and can lead to a further decline of their self-esteem?
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Go read what he said again. You are assuming too much, and reading too little.
 
Or, I have a unique perspective into the brain of a chemically imbalanced person and I am assuming nothing. I have sat through many classes and seminars that teach you the opposite of what he said. That you shouldn't suggest that proper diet, excercise and sleep for chemically imbalanced people will help them solve their problems and only leads to further depression and feelings of self-loathing. In the case of chemically imbalanced people, it helps very little in the big picture.

Perhaps you aren't reading enough of what I posted and are just being willful.
 
Just having a healthy lifestyle won't do it if you're lacking some necessary brain chemical or have too much of one. Duh.
 
visceral_instinct said:
Just having a healthy lifestyle won't do it if you're lacking some necessary brain chemical or have too much of one. Duh.
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Or too little.
Actually, I guess that having a good lifestyle might prevent a chemical imbalance in some cases.
For example, if your lifestyle is causing you stress (either on a conscious level or not), some neurotransmitters may increase or decrease. Keep this up a long time and it might screw up your brain chemistry.

I don't have any particular knowledge about this stuff though, nor did I look it up.
 
Liebling said:
They are indeed genetic. My first husband was severely bipolar. He bounces around from jail to psych ward right now because he refuses to get meds.
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why would he be in jail? for refusing to taking meds? :bugeye: that cant be right.
 
No, he's be in jail for many things. Domestic abuse, assault and battery, armed robbery, B&E... more domestic abuse, sexual assault. He can't control himself when he's not on meds and has a very violent temper. He's been incarcerated on 12 different charges. Six of which were felonies.

I left him when I found out I was pregnant. Because then I needed to protect more than just myself, and I've never looked back. Still have friends back there to keep me updated, and I've changed my name, social security number and moved to a different state. As far as he's concerned, I no longer exist.
 
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