Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Uchiha Madara]

Well you can't hit what you can't catch and I am willing to bet that either the Defiant, or Delta Flyer class could easily out menuver the ion cannons then slide right in and destroy them. And I do beleive that a bit back in the post that it was said that a turbo laser could not even penetrate the navigational shields of any UFP ship. And if the ships are all equipt with Regenerative shields and ablative armour forget it swoop in FIRE! Bye Bye Ion cannon, and on with the killin.

Yes it was SAID, but was it proven? I don't believe so.

Sure a Delta Flyer can, sure they can with such low class pilots. Don't tell me that you thought Star Wars have no shields and armor. There are different types of turbolasers for the record. And they can catch UFP ships, because Imperial warships is a lot faster.

 

[Uchiha Madara]

There is of course the force. Jedi are not wipe out completely, there is Luke left and he started the New Jedi Order. They can make UFP ships crash into each other ,weaken their will to fight with battle mediation...... you get the point.

 

[Gumbias]

There is of course the force. Jedi are not wipe out completely, there is Luke left and he started the New Jedi Order. They can make UFP ships crash into each other ,weaken their will to fight with battle mediation...... you get the point.

But all you would need in a neuro supressor much like the anti-prior device. Cause using the force takes concentration. So that is nullifies any advantage the jedi may have had. I am sure Julian could come up with the necessary adjustments needed.

And for that matter Odo could get aboard the SSD or even the DS and set the self distruct on all of them. Done and Done.

The SSD and SD could never leave hyper-space cause soon as they drop out they would be destroyed before they could jump again. I would be like shootting really really slow fish in a barrel. Could also use the cloaking device to shoot and hide. I also would not take real long before UPF could adapt the there drives to obtain hyperspace. Especially with the help of Seven's nano probes. Sorry the Empire is noting compared to the Dominion-Cardassian-Breen alliance and we all know how that turned out.

And to reiterate Agent Danials again can go back in time and kill Anikin or him mother before Qui gon even arrived and it never happened. Never have to fire a shot.

 

[Uchiha Madara]

Another advantage that the Republic have is industrial capability. Kamino, KDY and Rothana ( and BlasTech if you are counting the infantry weapons )built the GAR in 10 years. Also, Kamino cloning tech is the best, but it is far from the fastest, Microtech is. UFP's starfleet is nothing compared to the size of GAR, and GAR is only built by 2 shipyards, 1 weapons company and 1 system.

 

[Gumbias]

Another advantage that the Republic have is industrial capability. Kamino, KDY and Rothana ( and BlasTech if you are counting the infantry weapons )built the GAR in 10 years. Also, Kamino cloning tech is the best, but it is far from the fastest, Microtech is. UFP's starfleet is nothing compared to the size of GAR, and GAR is only built by 2 shipyards, 1 weapons company and 1 system.

Sorry but no one in more efficant then the dominion at cloning. A Jem'hadar soldier is fully grown in 3 days. Not the the Fed would use the tech BUT if push did come to shove you could have tens of thousands soldiers ready to fight in a matter of 2 weeks.

 

[Uchiha Madara]

But all you would need in a neuro supressor much like the anti-prior device. Cause using the force takes concentration. So that is nullifies any advantage the jedi may have had. I am sure Julian could come up with the necessary adjustments needed.

And for that matter Odo could get aboard the SSD or even the DS and set the self distruct on all of them. Done and Done.

The SSD and SD could never leave hyper-space cause soon as they drop out they would be destroyed before they could jump again. I would be like shootting really really slow fish in a barrel. Could also use the cloaking device to shoot and hide. I also would not take real long before UPF could adapt the there drives to obtain hyperspace. Especially with the help of Seven's nano probes. Sorry the Empire is noting compared to the Dominion-Cardassian-Breen alliance and we all know how that turned out.

And to reiterate Agent Danials again can go back in time and kill Anikin or him mother before Qui gon even arrived and it never happened. Never have to fire a shot.

Okay, it takes concentration, but they can be on another ship when they do it. The Imperials won't let people on without reason or a fight, and they are very adapt at fighting with soilders. The Imperials can send commandos aboard the Star Trek ship and through thermo dets everywhere and blow up the warp core. Jedi can do much more than just use the force, they have lightsabers you know and they are trained from childhood.

They can just to hyperspace and leave them far behind, so they can't catch up to hyperdrive. Also, it wouldn't be fun if everyone keeps saying, oh the Federation adapted to this and that. It is Star Wars tech vs Star Trek tech, not Star Wars tech vs Star Trek and Star Wars tech. Star Wars have cloaking too for your information. Star Wars can copy stuff too your know.

Have you ever heard of evidence? I don't think you have.

Anakin isn't that important, plus he would be born to another family, it is the will of the force, can't change it sorry.

 

[Uchiha Madara]

Sorry but no one in more efficant then the dominion at cloning. A Jem'hadar soldier is fully grown in 3 days. Not the the Fed would use the tech BUT if push did come to shove you could have tens of thousands soldiers ready to fight in a matter of 2 weeks.

Fully grown is one thing, fully trained is another. Microtech can clone a full grown clone in two years, but if the Empire pushed it, they can do it in about 16 days. Those Fett-clones are a lot better, especially the Republic Commandos. 10 years of intense training with Madalorians hand picked by Jango Fett, live fire exercises when they are 5 years old ( age acceleration is 2x so it is 10 years biological age ), sniping scores have to be 95%+, and a lot other intense training, and ARCs are hand trained by Fett which is a lot better than the Republic Commandos. A 3-day grown clone is probably no match for even a flash-learned trooper.

 

[Uchiha Madara]

Just pointing it out that speed isn't everything when it comes to cloning. Clones would of got better training if it took a normal amount of time to grow.

 

[Saquist]

I grant that the Replicators have shape shifting ability, however it is not because of their "bonds". Tighter bonds would not allow for shape shifting. They have this ability because they are all sentient.

No they're shapeshifting is because of the small nature, something borg nanoprobes couldn't do.

But assimilation requires only a single Replicator nanite defeated. A single one.

That's right but that would be impossible because of the vast size differents. It's the difference between them. This is like virus versus bacteria. Virus destroys it's target from the inside out. Unless the Borg produce smaller probes they'll be defeated on the molecular level everytime and perhaps even infiltrate the borg without them knowing it...perhaps even hack the collective.

Plus the number difference...quadrillions versus millions.

LOL aww *hug*

OH YEAH!

No, that's just faith talking...sounding like someone familiar?

No way. It's experience. I've seen every single episode of Star Trek and Stargate. Stare Trek has the numbers. Stargate has an amazing amount of fire power. The Asgard shields the humans used can be boosted by more than a hundred times by adding ZPM's to the power systems. The technology has no limit of strength. As long as there is power the shield will stay up.

They now have Three ZPM's, one for each ship. It wouldn't matter how many ships throw upagainst the Three Daedalus class ship, they would slaughter them one shot at a time.

I would think that even Voyager could be bested by an Asgard ship, if the Asgard could target Voyager with that slow weapon.

Smaller ships would have a better time avoiding the beams. They'll need to stay close. The intiation of the beam takes a couple of seconds. If they keep changing they're aspect and used the superior manuverability they'll go head to head, nose to nose.

So they may be able to withstand the serious punishment of a single Federation starship. Not so sure about 10. Or 40.

Think of it this way. You're saying that those 3 rickety vessels could withstand a Borg Cube that decimated 44 Federation ships at Wolf. Not a fair comparison.

The borg could likely adapt to these energy weapons but yes, They'd blow a cube sky high. The Asgard beams are on the same level as the transphasic torpedo. But they may have the sheer firepower to completely dominate the borg shields ability to adapt and match. Hive Ships are 8 to 9 kilometers long, a Cube is 3 KM.

 

[antaran_1979]

Yeah? Ever heard of evidence?

Lets suppose it is true, have you ever heard of Ion Cannons. A rain of ion cannons to disable the ship and finish it with turbolasers. Don't tell me that turbolasers can't destroy a disabled ship, because it is not true.

ahem, evidence of ST tech beating SW tech or SG tech winning over Dune tech? there can be no such evidence, these are different franchises.

as far as the ion cannons, what makes you think they would be effective against SW equipement. or even SW shielding?

 

[antaran_1979]

Correction:

No. the Wraith do NOT use Point Defense. The Mark VIII were shot down by fighter wings.

i don't know if this is a good or bad thing. what hapenes when they've lost their fighter support?

 

[antaran_1979]

I agree, that firepower is still in debate. The problem is people think that just because UFP have computer targeting, it is better. I disagree, it is very likely that the Empire have the ability to use computers, but they don't like using it. Computers can calculate and probably aim better than organics, but do they no how people think? No, they don't. You might argue that computers can remember tactics, but they still don't know how people think. That is the advantage of gunners. Also CIS have droid gunners which is equal to computers, but clones can think more freely. I don't know why CIS use droids instead of gunners, but that is not the point, they don't do it doesn't mean they can't. CIS can, that means so can the Empire. Just it point out.

And also, I am just trying to REMIND people to be civilized, this is a debate not a bar fight here.

when i reffered to the targeting in SW i did not mean the computer assisted targeting as the X-wing pilots in ANH clearly commented that computers are superior to lifeforms (the exact quote being, "That's impossible, even for a computer".) actually this statement clearly demonstrates that the most expensive piece of hardware the Empire has does not posses any jammer worth the money and that SW targeting computers can't hit a 2m wide target at a distance of 5km or more. in comparisson today's guided missiles can make that shot half the planet away.

but for just a second, forget the computer. in both ANH and RoTS we were presented with the SW weapon platforms. in both cases they are slow, cumbering devices with poor turning rates. those platforms could not make the proper targeting adjustments even if they had better computers/gunners.

 

[antaran_1979]

Another advantage that the Republic have is industrial capability. Kamino, KDY and Rothana ( and BlasTech if you are counting the infantry weapons )built the GAR in 10 years. Also, Kamino cloning tech is the best, but it is far from the fastest, Microtech is. UFP's starfleet is nothing compared to the size of GAR, and GAR is only built by 2 shipyards, 1 weapons company and 1 system.

the industrial capability of the Empire has also been noted and confirmed. but it is so only in the light of tremendous stress on its economy, as they reached the max efficient size for their fleet attempting to maintain order through terror. in other words, they can spare little of their capabilty on offensive actions.

 

[antaran_1979]

Fully grown is one thing, fully trained is another. Microtech can clone a full grown clone in two years, but if the Empire pushed it, they can do it in about 16 days. Those Fett-clones are a lot better, especially the Republic Commandos. 10 years of intense training with Madalorians hand picked by Jango Fett, live fire exercises when they are 5 years old ( age acceleration is 2x so it is 10 years biological age ), sniping scores have to be 95%+, and a lot other intense training, and ARCs are hand trained by Fett which is a lot better than the Republic Commandos. A 3-day grown clone is probably no match for even a flash-learned trooper.

actually the Dominion foot soldiers were battle ready on 3 days. not even the Empire could match such a level of recompensation for loses.

 

[antaran_1979]

1.No way. It's experience. I've seen every single episode of Star Trek and Stargate. Stare Trek has the numbers. Stargate has an amazing amount of fire power. The Asgard shields the humans used can be boosted by more than a hundred times by adding ZPM's to the power systems. The technology has no limit of strength. As long as there is power the shield will stay up.
They now have Three ZPM's, one for each ship. It wouldn't matter how many ships throw upagainst the Three Daedalus class ship, they would slaughter them one shot at a time.

2..Smaller ships would have a better time avoiding the beams. They'll need to stay close. The intiation of the beam takes a couple of seconds. If they keep changing they're aspect and used the superior manuverability they'll go head to head, nose to nose.







3.The borg could likely adapt to these energy weapons but yes, They'd blow a cube sky high. The Asgard beams are on the same level as the transphasic torpedo. But they may have the sheer firepower to completely dominate the borg shields ability to adapt and match. Hive Ships are 8 to 9 kilometers long, a Cube is 3 KM.

1. but is it enough? and given infinite power, enough attacks would still penetrate a shield even if its still operational, by simple overwealming.

2.and those 3 ships are not very fast or manoeverbale in STL. add the awful hit percentage on moving targets and you'd get a skirmish. it would be like english longbowmen fighting french men at arms. only 1 in 100 hits would do any damage, but the enemy would not get a chance to even attempt a hit.

3. in this case it is the power ratios that matter, not size. a WW2 T-boat can smack down a flotila of Nelson's ships-of-the-line. so if the Cube gets blasted, it won't be because its small.

 

[Lord Vasago]

at least a warsie get layed hahahah *joke*

 

[Lord Vasago]

the problem that SW has it that the first 3 movies are from the 70-80ies the 3latest movies are prequels so the power can't top the power of the first 3. even clonewars animated is prequel. ST on the other hand has except Captain kirk, the next generation, DS9, voyager. so offcourse they can invent better weapons.
ST and SW are in the same universe jet in other galaxy's.
as SW get across it's galaxy in matter of days and Voyager can't find it's way home without the future feds giving them a hand, we can fairly conclude that SW is far more superior on the matter of travelling and mapping the universe.

oh yeah and future feds can't kill anakin before he is born because they can't possible know th effect it would have on present time. they could easily be wiping out mankind.

 

[Lord Vasago]

when i reffered to the targeting in SW i did not mean the computer assisted targeting as the X-wing pilots in ANH clearly commented that computers are superior to lifeforms (the exact quote being, "That's impossible, even for a computer".) actually this statement clearly demonstrates that the most expensive piece of hardware the Empire has does not posses any jammer worth the money and that SW targeting computers can't hit a 2m wide target at a distance of 5km or more. in comparisson today's guided missiles can make that shot half the planet away.

but for just a second, forget the computer. in both ANH and RoTS we were presented with the SW weapon platforms. in both cases they are slow, cumbering devices with poor turning rates. those platforms could not make the proper targeting adjustments even if they had better computers/gunners.

i must agree that it is rediculous that luke had to use the force to target the exhaustvent. but guided missles werent invented yet when the movies where made sigh.

 

[Challenger78]

Oh. My. Kahless. You actually are one page away from 700. I am going to see if there is a longer thread than this in existence.

 

[Gumbias]

Fully grown is one thing, fully trained is another. Microtech can clone a full grown clone in two years, but if the Empire pushed it, they can do it in about 16 days. Those Fett-clones are a lot better, especially the Republic Commandos. 10 years of intense training with Madalorians hand picked by Jango Fett, live fire exercises when they are 5 years old ( age acceleration is 2x so it is 10 years biological age ), sniping scores have to be 95%+, and a lot other intense training, and ARCs are hand trained by Fett which is a lot better than the Republic Commandos. A 3-day grown clone is probably no match for even a flash-learned trooper.

Not sure you understand. A Jem'Hadar soldier is a fully grown lethal killing machine in 3 days. All of there instinct, and ability are coded in to there DNA at their creation. Sorry to say but a Garrison of Jem'Hadar against a Garrison of Storm trooper would be an absolute blood bath for the GAR. The Jem'Hadar would roll over them like they did not exist. The Jem'Hadar is a perfect soldier because they do no question their orders they just do it.

I think the fact that ST could adapt is a very important advantage for the Fed. All of the series we the ability to adapt to the situation at hand to emerge victorious with some brilliant engineer adapting some crazy plan "that just might work." Basically that is what Voyager was all about adapting to become victorious. Another example is from DS9 with the Breen Weapon that disabled the fed and Romulans ships. They had to adapt to win the war.