Abortion and the Death Penalty

[Kadark]

Do you think males have any role or responsibility in this process?

Not nearly as much, unfortunately. As much as women hate to admit it, they are the ones who are going to be stuck physically carrying the baby(ies) for nine months, whereas the men in question can easily flee the scene (not that I advocate such actions, of course). With such innate biological standards, it's only natural for women to be extra protective when indulging in sex. For the women who refuse to shelter themselves from the glaring dangers in their futile attempts to be "equal" to men, abortion should not be an easy way out, or a "get out of jail free" card, if you will.

Do you eat meat?

Yeah, so? Are you equating the value of an animal's life to that of a child's life? Let me illustrate this comparison in another way for you: if you were forced to either crush a clueless ant into the cement until its residue stuck to your inexpensive loafers or shoot a child in the face with your polished magnum revolver, which would you choose? Instinctively, that ant is done for, isn't it? My point is, human life is far more valuable than animal life, and we all realize this when facing dire situations. I eat animals as a food source, whereas abortion is simply the liquidation of human life supported by arguments of irresponsibility and laziness. So yeah, I eat meat, James, and there's nothing you can do to convince me that it's just as "bad" as abortion. Besides, you don't reach the top of the food chain to eat like a rabbit, do you?

Kadark the Carnivore

 

[James R]

Kadark:

For the women who refuse to shelter themselves from the glaring dangers in their futile attempts to be "equal" to men, abortion should not be an easy way out, or a "get out of jail free" card, if you will.

How should men who knowingly have unprotected sex with women, with no intention to support the resulting child, be punished, in your opinion?

Yeah, so? Are you equating the value of an animal's life to that of a child's life?

Ah, so you're qualifying things now, are you? I responded to this statement from you:

It's nobody's choice to liquidate developing life, unless that life directly harms its bearer.

But the fact is that you "liquidate developing life" every time you eat meat, and you seem to have no qualms about it.

So, please be specific. Obviously, your concern is not for "life" per se. It is only for particular types of life in particular constrained circumstances.

Let me illustrate this comparison in another way for you: if you were forced to either crush a clueless ant into the cement until its residue stuck to your inexpensive loafers or shoot a child in the face with your polished magnum revolver, which would you choose?

If I was forced? I'd choose to kill the ant.

Instinctively, that ant is done for, isn't it?

Well, I am human.

My point is, human life is far more valuable than animal life, and we all realize this when facing dire situations.

But most choices in life do not involve choosing between a human being and an animal. When you eat meat, it isn't a choice of kill the animal or kill the human. You just kill the animal for your own pleasure, not through any need.

I eat animals as a food source, whereas abortion is simply the liquidation of human life supported by arguments of irresponsibility and laziness.

Funny. I've never heard anybody justify a decision to terminate a pregnancy on the grounds of irresponsibility or laziness.

So yeah, I eat meat, James, and there's nothing you can do to convince me that it's just as "bad" as abortion.

Don't bother with the straw man.

I brought up the subject of eating meat merely to point out your double standard when you claim that you care about "life" in the abstract. Clearly, you do not.

Besides, you don't reach the top of the food chain to eat like a rabbit, do you?

In the absence of predators, a rabbit is at the top of the food chain.

 

[lucifers angel]

i am against both, because the legal system has been known to be wrong, and you cannot bring a man back once you kill him/her, and has for abortion i cant see why anyone would want to throw away a child

 

[Asguard]

LA what about the products of rape?
what about 13 year old mothers?
what about etopic pregnancies?

 

[Sciencelovah]

From here:

International Family Planning Perspectives, 1999, 25(Supplement):S30–S38

Approximately 26 million legal and 20 million illegal abortions were performed worldwide in 1995, resulting in a worldwide abortion rate of 35 per 1,000 women aged 15–44. Among the subregions of the world, Eastern Europe had the highest abortion rate (90 per 1,000) and Western Europe the lowest rate (11 per 1,000). Among countries where abortion is legal without restriction as to reason, the highest abortion rate, 83 per 1,000, was reported for Vietnam and the lowest, seven per 1,000, for Belgium and the Netherlands. Abortion rates are no lower overall in areas where abortion is generally restricted by law (and where many abortions are performed under unsafe conditions) than in areas where abortion is legally permitted.

Which implies to me that either it is made legal or illegal, it doesn't affect
the number of abortion. In that particular year, 46 million baby is aborted
worldwide. That is worse than any war, and the ones who are losing their
rights to live are the most innocent ones, and those who commit the act
are their mothers. I feel shame and sick being in the same group with
human species.

 

[Enmos]

From here:




Which implies to me that either it is made legal or illegal, it doesn't affect
the number of abortion. In that particular year, 46 million baby is aborted
worldwide. That is worse than any war, and the ones who are losing their
rights to live are the most innocent ones, and those who commit the act
are their mothers. I feel shame and sick being in the same group with
human species.

I believe that is the cumulative number (?)

 

[Sciencelovah]

I believe that is the cumulative number (?)

No, that is the ones performed in 1995 only. In their earlier work, there are 43
millions worldwide abortion performed in 1987. For more complete result, just
click the link.

The yesterday statistic (the one from USA), the thousands of abortion are only
from 7 states in the country.

 

[Enmos]

No, that is the ones performed in 1995 only. In their earlier work, there are 43
millions worldwide abortion performed in 1987. For more complete result, just
click the link.

The yesterday statistic (the one from USA), the thousands of abortion are only
from 7 states in the country.

Hmm that is about one in a 135 people that got an abortion that year.
How many were performed in third world countries though ?

And what is counted as abortion ? I suspect they count the morning after pill as well.

 

[Sciencelovah]

Hmm that is about one in a 135 people that got an abortion that year.
How many were performed in third world countries though ?

And what is counted as abortion ? I suspect they count the morning after pill as well.

The thousands of abortion in 7 states of USA that I mentioned yesterday are not
the number of total abortion, they are just the number being surveyed for the
abortion reason. I'll go back to the source.

 

[Sciencelovah]

Here from Wikipedia:

List of articles about abortion by country

You can see what they say about in other countries. The legal abortion in the USA:

Abortion in the United States

According to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), there were 854,122 legal induced abortions in the US in 2003.[6]

About the one in third countries, the highest rate (in term of number of abortion
to the percentage of population) is performed in Vietnam (according to the previous
source). The statistics from another source:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/27187.php

About 1.4 million abortions are performed annually in the country, which has a population of 82 million.

 

[Warlexco]

Prison is expensive. Death is simple. Effective. Saves time & money.

*erases rant*

As for abortion.. we have billions of people on this planet. We don't need zealots telling us what we can't do with a fetus. If they want it to live so much, they can figure out a way to suffer through 9 months of pregnancy, and adopt it!

*erases yet another rant*

 

[Enmos]

Here from Wikipedia:

List of articles about abortion by country

You can see what they say about in other countries. The legal abortion in the USA:




About the one in third countries, the highest rate (in term of number of abortion
to the percentage of population) is performed in Vietnam (according to the previous
source). The statistics from another source:

Yes, but I was talking about the particular year you mentioned. The one with the 46 million abortions

 

[Sciencelovah]

Yes, but I was talking about the particular year you mentioned. The one with the 46 million abortions

As far as I understand from the article, Enmos, it is not cumulative value, it is only
the value of that particular year (1995). Perhaps you should check it yourself?

Today I want the world to know that I am truly thankful to my mum for being
courageous to have given birth to me, to raise me with love in spite of all troubles
that I knowingly or unknowingly cost her, to give me chance to enjoy life, to learn
a bit about science, to meet my lovely siblings, to meet my friends and love ones,
to see many places around the world, etc. I am truly grateful to her and my father
who are willing to sacrifice their individual freedom or chances that are lost by giving
birth to me and by supporting me while I was a child. I hope that God will always
protect them and make them happy and I hope that I will never disappoint them.

 

[Enmos]

As far as I understand from the article, Enmos, it is not cumulative value, it is only
the value of that particular year (1995). Perhaps you should check it yourself?

Today I want the world to know that I am truly thankful to my mum for being
courageous to have given birth to me, to raise me with love in spite of all troubles
that I knowingly or unknowingly cost her, to give me chance to enjoy life, to learn
a bit about science, to meet my lovely siblings, to meet my friends and love ones,
to see many places around the world, etc. I am truly grateful to her and my father
who are willing to sacrifice their individual freedom or chances that are lost by giving
birth to me and by supporting me while I was a child. I hope that God will always
protect them and make them happy and I hope that I will never disappoint them.

Nevermind.

Is it your birthday ?

 

[Sciencelovah]

Nevermind.

Is it your birthday ?

Huh? No, it isn't, Enmos. My birthday is on December.

I just feel like has just been escape from a needle orifice. Millions of babies can't
get chance to enjoy the world that I enjoy today. I don't know why I deserve
life more than others. I suppose it because of my parent.

 

[Enmos]

Huh? No, it isn't, Enmos. My birthday is on December.

I just feel like has just been escape from a needle orifice. Millions of babies can't
get chance to enjoy the world that I enjoy today. I don't know why I deserve
life more than others. I suppose it because of my parent.

You don't deserve life more than others, it's just the way things are.

Also, were do you wish to draw the line ? Every time men have sex billions of sperm cells die, and if using a contraceptive it is all for nothing as well.

 

[Sciencelovah]

You don't deserve life more than others, it's just the way things are.

Also, were do you wish to draw the line ? Every time men have sex billions of sperm cells die, and if using a contraceptive it is all for nothing as well.

Whatever you wish to think, Enmos. I value human life more than ever.

 

[Enmos]

Whatever you wish to think, Enmos. I value human life more than ever.

I realize that might have come off as an insult, it wasn't meant that way.

Why do only some of these little spiders make it ? Why do some get eaten while others are not ?

Individuality is an illusion.

 

[visceral_instinct]

Originally Posted by Kadark
Bingo! What you posted is the truth, although it certainly isn't beyond logic, as your user title would indicate (haha). As inzomnia graciously pointed out, 98% of abortions (in the United States, if I recall correctly) are done for "personal reasons", which is nothing but a fancy, professional way of saying "I'm an irresponsible bitch who decided to have sex out of marriage, and by accident I was impregnated. I don't want to deal with dirty diapers and midnight madness, so would you politely vacuum the developing human being from my forbidden pit? Appreciate it!" Considering the staggering statistics (98%), it's safe to say that the "condoms can break!" crowd has permanently been rendered speechless, and for good reason. The "it's not your choice, it's the woman's!" argument is such bombastic bullshit that one feels compelled to stab the expresser of such hogwash in their cursed jugular. It's nobody's choice to liquidate developing life, unless that life directly harms its bearer. Under normal, healthy circumstances, abortion is a crime against humanity.

Kadark the Accursed

Goddammit. THIS is why I use the fucking ignore function, but I came across this piece of crap in someone else's quote.

So according to you Kadark, women should not have control over their own bodies? We're just vessels for keeping babies in until they're developed?

And I don't know where you get off ranting about how such women are irresponsible. Abortion is a hell of a lot more responsible than having a child you do not want.

Ya, and as for the 'developing human being' shit. I wonder which is more valid as a human, a viscous blob of tissue, or a woman who can think, feel, have opinions and beliefs, etc.

I'm an irresponsible bitch who decided to have sex out of marriage

Married women have abortions too. What if she already has 8 kids and cannot afford another one? Ya, having a kid you cannot afford to look after is really responsible.

 

[S.A.M.]

It's not child abuse. Nor is it illegal, by the way.

On the other hand, to do heroin in the first trimester then go ahead and have the child is irresponsible and unfair to the child.

So is it legal to inject heroin into the newborn child? Give him a shot of alcohol?

So interpersonally you would try to intervene. But would you support legal restrictions on pregnant women?

For smoking and drug abuse? Of course! They should be reported and open to accountability for any damage to the baby. I would assume that if one were to see a woman giving alcohol or drugs to her child after it has been born, they would consider her accountable for it.

Married women have abortions too. What if she already has 8 kids and cannot afford another one? Ya, having a kid you cannot afford to look after is really responsible.

How many abortions is it okay to have? Three ? Ten? Twenty?

Women who do not want to be vessels have the option to get sterilised.

Abortion is not a form of birth control and it is reprehensible to use it as such.