Zeitgiest Movie Claims.. Are they true ?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Challenger78, Oct 27, 2007.

  1. mikenostic Stop pretending you're smart! Registered Senior Member

    What do you mean?
    Are you implying that all religions have come from the ideas of other religions?
    If so, then any religion that is known to have taken ideas from other religions more or less instantly loses credibility.

    Is there substantial proof that Christianity chewed a bit off Paganism?
    If so, how can Christianity have any credibility whatsoever?
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  3. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Christianity has credibility? :bugeye:
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  5. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

    I probably shouldn't have added that part at the end about the symbol for Sciforums resembling the symbol for the sun.
    I does remind one of the circle that I was describing, but that only served to distract the conclusion of the post from the main objective.
    It wasn't about sun symbology or the SF image. I must apologize for that.

    The information I provided was to show that with prophetic scriptures and ancient mythology...the older source isn't necessarily the true origin of the subject. http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1987622&postcount=33

    This refutes the Zeitgeist movie claims.
    For example; It is true Moses lived after the Sumerians and the Egyptians, and recorded his accounts of similar events after they did.
    That is not being contested.
    But Moses being a prophet claimed to see these events in a vision or received them from God directly, and that is what's claimed to have given him a firsthand perspective.

    He didn't just write down legends passed down from the other nations and change the names....as some would have us believe.

    The reason the same stories about a coming messiah existed in other nations like India and China thousands of years before Israel is because those were prophecies seen in visions by prophets like Noah and Enoch all the way back to Adam.
    The history I provided showed how these events were written down by many different cultures, when the world was all of one language and worshiped one God before polytheism started in Babylon and divided the Earth into waring nations and different tongues using religion as a tool for war.

    So in reality, the evidence this movie provided attempting to discredit the Bible, actually helps to prove that once the world was monotheistic, and believed in one God after the flood.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2009
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  7. CranE Registered Member

    Without reading nearly any responses, I'm going to post my presentation for my English 12 editorial. Think of it what you like, But it is very well researched. I do not have to this day, original citations. But the work is 100% original. Comment if you like.

    The Truth of The Zeitgeist

    The Zeitgeist is a conspiracy documentary that falsely claims that Judean-Christianity is a fraud. They base their claims on the ancient Pagan-Egyptian worship of the sun using cleverly assembled evidence claims dating from 3000BC. The Zeitgeist attempts to prove Jesus Christ and many other ancient savior-figures throughout time all share the same traits regarding their lifestyle, lifespan, and attributes. The Zeitgeist bases these claims around one ancient sky God named Horus, an ancient savior named Attis, the 12 signs of the Zodiac, and how they relate to the Bible. Through easily obtainable information, however, The Zeitgeist philosophy can be easily discredited.
    According to The Zeitgeist, the life of Horus is as follows: “Horus was born of the virgin Isis on December 25. Horus was referred to as the Alpha and Omega, the Lamb of God, and many others. A star in the east marked the arrival of the newborn King, to which 3 solar deities traveled from the east to follow and adorn the new savior. The priest Anup baptized Horus at age 30, and he thus began his ministry followed closely by 12 disciples. Horus was crucified, buried, and remained dead for 3 days, and was thus resurrected and ascended into heaven.” If someone heard this story without knowing it is the story of Horus, one would assume this is the life of Jesus Christ. The Zeitgeist uses their packaged evidence to argue that the basic facts about Horus travel across time from savior to savior while always showing identical parallels between them. The Zeitgeist argues that such saviors as Attis, Dionysus, Krishna, Buddha, and many others share this same tale. However, research can prove many fallacies in the claims made by The Zeitgeist, and many of the parallels The Zeitgeist shows between Horus and Jesus Christ are false.
    To begin with, Jesus Christ was not literally born on December 25. It is not known what day he was born, and December 25 has been the day of celebration of Jesus Christ’s life. Horus was not born of a virgin. Research into the life of Horus has proven that Osiris fathered him, and was murdered shortly after his birth. Horus was supposedly crucified some time after he began his ministry. However, crucifixion was not invented until the first century by the Roman Empire, and even the earliest traces of punishment similar to crucifixion goes back to the Persian Empire, long after Horus’ time. The Zeitgeist claims that the 3 Kings that follow Jesus Christ are direct parallels to the ancient deities that followed Horus. However, in no point in the Bible, or the Scriptures are 3 Kings said to have followed Jesus Christ. In Mathew 2:1 he writes “Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the King, Behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem.” As this quote clearly states, there is no specific number of wise men that traveled west to adorn the new savior.
    There were also many gods known by the name of Horus in that time. In the version of Horus’ life selected by the creator of The Zeitgeist, Horus was represented by a falcon whose eyes were the sun and the moon, and whose breath was the cool north wind. However, later portrayals of Horus depict him as a young child suckling his mother Isis’ breast, and not as a falcon. These changes in the tale of Horus show how unreliable and fragmented the information truly is.
    Horus was successful in avenging his father’s death and becoming his successor. Osiris then became the King of the dead, while Horus became the King of the living. By the fourth dynasty, the King of the living (Horus) was said to have been one of the greatest gods. However in the fifth dynasty, the supremacy of the Cult of Ray (cult of the sun) was accepted by even the kings, and at this point the King of the living (Horus) was now named the Sun of Ray. These events of the life of Horus cease to appear in The Zeitgeist, and for good reason: they share absolutely no parallels with the life of Jesus Christ.
    Myths of Pagan Gods have changed throughout history, and there is no documentation prior to the New Testament that accredits the claims made by The Zeitgeist regarding the resemblances of Jesus Christ to Horus. The only thing that has remained constant over this timeframe is Jesus Christ himself, and the New Testament book of Hebrew states, “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and forever.”
    The Zeitgeist claims that Attis is yet another ancient deity that Jesus Christ’s life derived from. Cybelle, also known as the Goddess of Nature, loved the deity Attis. According to the myth of Attis and Cybelle “because of unfaithfulness, and overcome with madness, Attis died.” Upon Attis’ death, Cybelle introduced death and mourning into the natural world. After the introduction of death to the natural world, Cybelle resurrected Attis, and this myth is known as “The Resurrection of Attis.” “The Resurrection of Attis” is not mentioned in history until around 150 AD, long after the death of Jesus Christ. There are literally countless fallacies throughout the Christianity section of The Zeitgeist, but with simple research, one can break down these claims piece by piece and discern the truth behind the arguments made by The Zeitgeist.
    The Zeitgeist also argues that Jesus Christ, his 12 disciples, and many aspects of his life were derived directly from the pagan sign of the Zodiac. Edward Carpenter wrote in his book Pagan and Christian Creeds that the Virgin Mary is simply a character based on the Pagan Zodiac sign Virgo (Virgin, House of Bread). Marcia Montegenero wrote in his book Spellbound “you can’t just make a story out of names like Virgo, Leo, Taurus etc. And why doesn’t the story begin with Ares? If it did, then Leo comes before Virgo, yet Leo is supposedly Jesus Christ, The Lion of Judah. It seems he would come after Virgo in a story.” The Zeitgeist shows how the word Bethlehem can be translated to mean “The House of Bread” or the constellation Virgo, and that Bethlehem is “a place in the sky, not a real place on earth.” However, there have been sources to attest to Bethlehem’s existence from sources Biblical and non-affiliated. Flavius Josephus the Jewish historian wrote of Bethlehem as being the location where King David was anointed to become the future King of Israel. His writings took place before the Old Testament was written. J.B Hennessey wrote of the archaeological evidence that Bethlehem was mass populated during the first century AD or the Paleolithic period. Acharya S was one of the main sources listed for The Zeitgeist. She wrote of how Jesus Christ represented the sun, and each of his 12 disciples represented each of the 12 symbols of the Zodiac through which the sun must pass. What she does not explain in her work, is how Jesus Christ supposedly “passed” through his 12 disciples, or how the Zodiac signs follows the sun. Exodus: 32 writes of how Moses came down from the mount with the 10 Commandments, and shattered the tablets after witnessing the Israelites worshiping the Golden Calf. Shortly thereafter, Moses took and burned the Calf. Skeptics mark this sequence of events as the changing of the ages from the age of Taurus represented by the Golden Calf, to the age of Ares, the Ram represented by Moses. The Zeitgeist claims that this is why the Jews still play the Ram’s horn today. However, there is no documentation of Moses ever playing a rams horn. Moses simply cannot be identified as, or with a ram in any interpretation of the Bible or the Scriptures. In Luke 22:10 Jesus Christ tells his disciples to “enter into the city where the will meet a man bearing a pitcher of water.” Acharya S sees this as the coming of the new Age of Aquarius represented by Jesus Christ. The Age of Aquarius begins in 2150 AD. However, Acharya S claims, “Jesus became the good shepherd, and the Lamb in Ares, the Ram.” The Age of Ares is around 2150 BC to 1 AD, and has nothing to do with Jesus Christ.
    The Zeitgeist states that Jesus Christ represents that Age of Pisces because his two disciples James and John were fisherman, and the symbol for the Age of Pisces is two fish. To these critics who downplay Christianity, any mention in the Bible of a Bull seems to represent the Age of Taurus, any mention of fish to the Age of Pisces, and any mention of water to the Age of Aquarius. Although two of Jesus Christ’ disciples were fisherman, the other 10 had jobs and duties seemingly left of The Zeitgeist for obvious reasons; they had no relation to the sign of the Zodiac in any way. The Zeitgeist interprets Jesus Christ’s relation to fish and two fishermen as being astrologically related. However, The Zeitgeist does not show any astrological comparison to any of Jesus Christ’s other attributes throughout his life.
    The Zeitgeist falsely claims that Judean-Christianity is a fraud. They base their claims on the ancient Pagan-Egyptian worship of the sun using cleverly assembled evidence claims dating from 3000BC. The Zeitgeist attempts to prove Jesus Christ and many other ancient savior-figures throughout time all share the same traits regarding their lifestyle, lifespan, and attributes. The Zeitgeist bases these claims around one ancient sky God named Horus, an ancient savior named Attis, the 12 signs of the Zodiac, and how they relate to the Bible. Through easily obtainable information however, The Zeitgeist philosophy can be easily discredited.
  8. John99 Banned Banned


    You should come to understand that if people didnt know 2000 years ago surely they dont know today. Just a bunch of faded cave drawings that mean nothing and conjecture. Every successive 'expert' deluding themselves further and further. yearning for importance, to believe they are smarter, to believe they are better. Looking for the answers they will never have. Sad...

    This is - Zeitgeist.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2009
  9. CranE Registered Member

    Oh I agree the answers will never be found except perhaps in the after-life. This paper was a requirement for me to pass Eng. 12.
  10. John99 Banned Banned

    There is a lot of misinformation, including sun worship. I think it is exaggerated and to use the term 'worship' is far fetched. Most here will disagree though. One thing i am certain of is that humans always recognized the human form as something special and objects as objects. We can say reverence or even some supernatural association with the sun but then all things we dont understand are viewed as supernatural. So what is supernatural? things are either right or wrong and that is basically all.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2009
  11. CranE Registered Member

    If you are referring to my editorial. I would say that the word worship is used appropriately. I believe that the ancient pagan's I refer to knew and accepted that without the sun, they could not exist. That's my rationality in word choice.
  12. John99 Banned Banned

    so where does the worship come in? without food you wouldn't exist either. dont you think they knew that as well?
  13. CranE Registered Member

    You could put it this way. if they wanted food, or oxygen, or water, or any life necessity. They could somehow obtain it. However, The sun is the source of all these things, not necessarily their creation, but without the sun, none of the aforementioned material would matter at all now would it.
  14. John99 Banned Banned

    you are assuming they even where aware of that. What was to stop them from believing that if the sun went away one day it would be replaced immediately by some 'real' god or maybe just pop into place?

    they know of fish. if they take a fish out of water the fish dies. does that mean they believed water was god of fish? i dont think people ever worshipped anything other than somthing close to a living creature and the vast majority of the time very close to a human form.
  15. CranE Registered Member

    I do. I think ancient Egyptians worshiped the sun lol.
  16. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Worshiping the sun makes a whole lot more sense than worshiping some imaginary being.
  17. Seb1986 Registered Member


    But on a more serious note. Ask yourself how something as great as God and Christianity itself (assuming it is true) can be followed by so much controversy?

    Should the claims of Zeitgeist however seem over exaggerated or false (regarding the federal reserve bank etc), should we not ask ourselves why these claims, as far fetched as some may be, are totally within context of of having a chance of being true.

    The real issue is not whether Zeitgeist claims are 100% true, but what is really going on behind the curtains, whether they coincide with Zeitgeist conspiracy or not. She should not focus our energy on whether this movie is true in its entirety, but rather take from it the wake up call, that there are things going on around us which are not always coincidental. The global economic crisis for example, recession, who could set such a crisis in motion and benefit from it?

    I apologize if I have indeed gone off topic of the original post. I just feel there are more important matters to discuss than the finer details of this movie, and that we should rather not take the movie as cold hard fact, but take away the possibilities it shows us, things that could and might be really happening and the implications therefore, even if the actual circumstances may be different.

    I feel as if I have confused myself in this post, hehe. Please comment, would like to know what you think.
  18. EndLightEnd This too shall pass. Registered Senior Member

    I believe Thomas Jefferson -
    Private banking swindeled its way into this nation. It was not what our founding fathers intended.
  19. Starchini Registered Member

    OK after a bit of research here's what I found out about 'Popular Mechanics'

    This is all in the public domain and with a little research can be found out.

    Popular Mechanics is owned by a corporation called Hearst Communications, Inc
    (to verify please look at the bottom of the Popular mechanics website)

    A Director of Hearst Comm is a woman called - Cathleen P Black Who also has ties with the following corporations -

    USA Today (Publisher)
    Coca Cola (Director)
    The Council of Foreign Relations (Director)

    and many more...

    Now I don't have time here to get into the intricacies of each corporation, but I think we can all agree that you don't made a director of a corporation or council because of nothing. So it makes sense that Popular Mechanics disputes the 911 truth. I have spent countless hours researching (not just watching documentaries but conducting my own investigation into) 911 and I am convinced that it was definitely not an act of terror that came from outside the USA, but an act of terror that came from within.

    People need to wake up... If the facts surrounding the trade center buildings don't convince you then take a look at building 7! Despite the fire and debris damage, there is now way that building should have crumbled to the ground, at the VERY VERY most and this is stretching a lot it could have been a partial collapse.

    The world is suffering from the most terrible cancer and people can't even see it.

    Don't believe zeitgeist, don't believe other docuementaries, simply conduct your own research and you will soon see that official story of 911 is just fakery!

    "Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." - Albert Einstein.
  20. John99 Banned Banned

    then you think wrong.

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  21. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

    Is it really so immensely, critically, massively important whether if the claims about Christianity are true or not? Honestly, is it going to make any difference? In both situation, true or not, message is clear: Our current religions are archaic. They do not represent our real challenges or level of knowledge about things. Assume that Christianity is unique, and it has nothing to do with anything before it. Does that make Christianity more valuable and useful than its actual position in our minds and civilization? Does that change the fact that it's been two thousands years since Christianity was introduced? No, it does not. What's the point?
  22. scott3x Banned Banned

    I agree with your assertion that the official story of 911 has a fair amount of fakery to it. Nevertheless, many people believe it, including the heads of administration in this forum. This preference is so pronounced, in fact, that 9/11 threads have been on auto lock not once, but twice; Stryder, a super mod recently did so again, as can be seen in this post:

    I recommend that you join me and others in democratic underground, a forum that is more tolerant of differing points of view, here:

    I'm scott75 over there.
  23. soulstar Registered Senior Member

    Zeitgeist offers no reference for its claims. Inasmuch as they may sound true, any honest intellect will not accept claims without reference sources.

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