I prefer the original system of philosophers and jurists. Let the spiritual and material stuff be dealt with on different levels. Most mullahs and qadis today are politicians not alims and manipulate the political system for power. More a western system than an eastern one. I did meet some very nice qadis in Saudi Arabia but they are crushed under the political power exerted by the committee on vice (ie the muttawa'in)
You mean the liberation of countries previously colonised and destabilised for profit? Then artifically divided to maintain the conflict? On a scale on 1-10 I'd say a 1000. Carving up people and serving them for supper is not unusual for the Brits, though, so I doubt they even blink now.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
It's nice to be on the same page for once! I agree, people who commit themselves to religious and spiritual matters should not busy themselves with political rubbish. It is far too easy to abuse and seize advantage of religion, when all the "religious" men have the power. Although, this doesn't mean I espouse secularism. Simply, it means I don't want the guy teaching me about my religion running my country.
Yup, but then you have idiots crooning for the "Muslim scholars" to "speak out" against terrorism. While screeching that religion should not be mixed with politics. Duh!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
So what are you saying here Kadark? That the people living in the area that is now Iraq, when ruled under the Ottoman Monarchy were happy to live under Ottoman rule? Is that you position? If so – then why on Goddesses Earth did they choose to side with the British and fight the Ottomans? Why? Again, why did the people living there choose to align with the British and fight against the Ottomans? Why? Yes I agree. But, so what Kadark? Every single nation on this planet meddles with everyone else. That’s a simple fact of life. You think the USA meddled with Iraq – TRY BEING RUSSIAN! The USA was constantly meddling with Russia, WAY more than Iraq. And guess what – Saddam was also supported by Russia. Oh, and France gave Saddam fighter planes. And China signed oil and gas deals with Saddam. Etc.. And if we really really want to go back into History and talk about “The Great Game” it’s plainly obvious that every nation was manipulating every other nation. Jesus, just look at Korea. Has the USA meddeled in Iraqi affairs – YES. Does this mean Iraq would be anything other than a mess now if they hadn’t – NO. Was the USA alone? No. No here you are wrong. The USA planned to invade Iraq, topple Saddam, install another puppet government that had a New nicer USA-friendly Saddam running the show who would then pump all the oil to the USA. I am 100% sure that the idiots who run the USA had no clue as to the Sunni and Shiia and chaos that would ensure. To suggest ANYTHING else is not only pure speculation, it doesn’t fit the USA’s modus operendi and boarders on flunky CT. Why did the people living in that area CHOOSE to side with the British against the Ottomans? Why? Sorry Kadark but history shows that the people living there wanted out from under Ottoman rule. Out of curiosity, do you see anything wrong with a well-educated woman teaching others (including men?). Yeah, SAM, that’s what I’m doing. I have my Indian maid servants right here next to me : sponge bathing me. Please. Free Trade is just trade without tariffs. You live in a Democracy – if you don’t like it, simply put up tariffs on American imports. Done. If I remember correctly your Utopian Indian province where supposedly everyone was living wonderfully made much better gains as they opened up to free trade. The simple fact is there are lazy people who wrought the system – everywhere on the earth. Even in industrial Japan I see people who simply want to put their feet up and let the other people do the hard work. America’s biggest gains were made in America because of America’s natural resources. Not because of India or China. America became rich trading with Europeans and New York became the richest city in the world over a hundred years ago. If you want to think America suddenly became rich because of it’s exploitation of India? Please. India and the USA only recently started have major effects toward one another's economy. What about KSA – yeah, they’re obviously getting ripped off by the USA as we pay through the arse for oil. I suppose it was the USA that made China poor too oh and Russia oh and Thailand and Indonesia we tried to make Singapore and Korea and Japan and Taiwan and Hong Kong poor with our "free trade" policy but guess what - they somehow got rich.?? WEIRD HUH? Please. RE: Iraqis losing their faith. Kadark, IF the two bombs that were used in suicide bombings that happened TODAY are found to have been made with the assistance of Iran what then Kadark? Is it some new conspiracy where the CIA secretly also controls the Iranians Mullahs and they use them without their knowledge to brainwash people from KSA to carry out attacks on USA solders in Iraq so that America, who is paying >$100/barrel will get cheap oil like maybe $99/barrel… ohhh wait, that’s all part of the plan. See the USA will tank it’s economy too - all to throw people off the track , you know, by paying >$100/barrel … that’ll trick em! OR could it be that some idiot boys where taught some romantic bullshit about this fictional Arab past and "Islamic" Golden Age and think that Martyrdom will not only make them glorious but also get them a free ticket to this wonderful heaven they were also erroneously taught exists. Michael Does the USA meddle in Iraq - YES. Is the USA trying to divide Shiia and Sunni - maybe. Do many Shiia hate Sunni for a past that has absolutely nothing to do with the USA - YES. (hell even in Pakistan BEFORE 9/11 Sunni were killing Shia). Are Iraqi's losing faith because of all the romantic bullshit they were taught - YUP. Probably not too many Iraqi kids are going to romanticize about this wondrous time when Persians rolled over for the former clients the Arabs and became good little subjects. They know all too well what people can do in the name of God.
What is the US destroyer doing off Lebanon? The US troops in Iraq? In Afghanistan? The 1000 military bases all over the world? The US centric WB/IMF/G8 "free trade" practices? Easy to say just put tariffs when the dictators are in the US pocket, buying US arms with US "aid" money. Working hard at destroying the world indeed. And why do you think Indians fought on the side of the British during WWII?
Is the USA responsible for India being so poor? No. IS the USA responsible for China being so poor? No. Is the USA responsible for Japan being so rich? No. Is the USA responsible for Germany being so rich? No. Each nation is as it is due to the efforts and management of it's people. India is poor because of Indians SAM. China is poor because of Chinese, SAM. Ohhh hooo but ask Indian's and it's the British fault. Ask Chinese and it's the Japanese fault. According to Chinese japan is rich only because they exploited the Chinese! Everyone likes to blame someone and no one likes to take responsibility for their own actions. The USA has military bases to protect it's investments and maintain the order of things. Yes that is true. But, as you well know, the Phillipeans simply told the USA get the f8ck out - and guess what, the USA left. It's funny, I hear German's bitch about US military bases but then when we close them down and that city collapses - oh, that's also our fault. :bugeye: Like I said, everyone wants someone to blame their problems on. As for Afghanistan and Iraq. As I said, the USA used 9/11 as a means to invade and steal their oil. Hopefully, now, after Americans have stopped romanticizing war and pulled their heads out of their collective arses they'll elect someone who will then remove all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. Tomorrow could not be soon enough if you asked me. RE: G8 Yeah, they set policies for themselves. Big surprise there. Japan looks after Japan as much as France looks after France. If you think Russia somehow is looking after the USA - please SAM. CT anyone? Michael
Yeah its all the people's fault. Like being forced (by "free trade" practices) to sell coffee for 23 cents a pound when their "benefactors" sell it for what? 22 dollars a pound? Yup, its all those idiots lazing around when they should be working.
Good news. It often takes an environment where islam can show it's true face before people can see just how evil it is. In Iraq the true muslims have been allowed to give their religion it's truest bloody form in violence and terror. There is now hope for these young people who probably once believed the propaganda that islam was a religion of peace. Now they see islam for what it truly is, savage barbaric and evil. Just been listening to the news about the latest bombing in Bagdad carried out by devout islamic jihadists, they will never stop until they themselves are destroyed by the sword. In violence it was born and it violence it expanded and lived and in violence it shall be destroyed. All Praise The Ancient Of Days
As to the thread topic: Dozens killed in Baghdad attacks At least 54 people have been killed by two bomb attacks in the Karada shopping area in the centre of the Iraqi capital Baghdad Shiia's was apparently the target. Now, to me, this is clearly a fault in religion. As I said in the past, many time, give people an inch of rope and they'll take a mile. Wage war in the name of God and 1500 years later people will think it's OK to wage war in the name of God. Did Abraham wage war in God's name? Did Mosses wage war in Gods name? Did Jesus wage war in Gods name? Did Buddha wage war in Gods name? Did Zoroaster wage war in Gods name? Did Bahá'u'lláh wage war in Gods name? The people who invented those religions actually did it as a religious thing. Now lets look at some other societies and how they expanded: Did Alexander of Macedonia wage war as a God? Did Julius Caesar wage war as a decedent of a God? Did Mohammad wage war as a Prophet of a God? Base your philosophy on the stipulation that War is a natural part of human life and expect people to wage war. Teach people that War is a sin and you'll still have war, but not in the name of God or religion. So to the Question: Why are Iraqis losing faith? The answer is because people are killing one another in the name of God. Maybe they would still be killing one another, but if it were over ethnicity of culture then they wouldn't be losing their faith in God - just in humanity. Michael
It's obvious - don't grow coffee. Obviously the commodity is being made at too high a volume compared with the number of people. If you are a worker, just don't work. It's called a strike and THAT is an issue of minimum wage within YOUR country and has nothing to do at all with the USA. EX: the USA has free trade with India and Colombia. The India does what? Put a tariff's on it's OWN EXPORT? Or is the USA supposed to put a tariff's on India's coffee? And how exactly does all this result in the little guy make more than $0.23 per lb? Guess what - Japanese used to work for very little money when the country was dirt poor. Well management and hard hard work turned them into the industrial juggernaut they are today - and has nothing to do with the USA. Is the USA to blame for China's failed economic policy that resulted in 30 million deaths to starvation? Just curious how far the blame goes? I often her Malaysians blame Singapore on why Malaysia is poor - the Singaporeans take advantage of the cheap labor in Malaysia. But, if they don't send work to Malaysia - well then it's again blame Singapore. Always someone to blame, you live in a democracy SAM you can only blame yourselves, Michael
To answer your question: yes, the Arabs were very content and satisfied living under a protective Ottoman rule. You ask a valid question, as to why they betrayed the Ottomans in the end. Simple, really: if you're given the choice of living under someone else's Empire (no matter how fairly and competently they run their system) and a homeland for your own independence, chances are you're going to choose the latter. The Arabs knew that the Ottoman Empire was crumbling, and they fought against what remained of it to gain independence - not to free themselves from oppression and despot Sultans. The story of the Arabs siding with the heinous Brits against their Muslim brothers and sisters in Turkey is an event they still pay for today. Look how miserably the Arabs live. Read above. The Arabs attempted to capture advantage of an Empire that was on a rapid decline, and because they were promised the sun and the moon for helping the British. Sharif Husayn, who helped organize many of the rebellions, was a rich and powerful man, thanks to the position the Ottomans put him in. Clearly, it wasn't a lifetime of being oppressed or misrepresented that drove the Arabs to side with the British. It was pure selfishness, with a mixture of deadly pan-Arab mentality. Every nation may meddle with others to some degree, but no nation comes nearly as close to the realm of the U.S. Sure, Russia may have been meddled with, but they were certainly doing meddling of their own. Besides, they were (and arguable still are) a superpower - they have the means to defend themselves. Iraqis, on the other hand, have no such advantages. They're simply unfortunate enough to be geographically stationed over some of the world's most fruitful oil reserves. And guess what? Nobody is praising any of those nations. You know, the U.S. could even be forgiven for their deceitful and disastrous involvements in Iraq's history, if only, well, you know, they weren't currently undergoing an invasion in the country. Sure, many countries used Iran and Iraq to their own economical and political advantages back in the '80s, but look at what country is most active in destabilizing the region today (through war). The argument that other countries have had shady dealings with Iraq in the past simply doesn't have much merit, in the grand scheme of things. I can't believe I'm wasting my precious time on you. Of course Iraq would have been better off right now, because Saddam would have never seen power. Before the U.S. supported him into power, he had been shot and exiled - clearly showing he didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of controlling Iraq. Abdul Qassim was adored by the Iraqis for overthrowing the British-established monarchy. There's no way the civilians would have simply allowed an amateur plan to overthrow their new government to go through. Oh, and the U.S. may not have been alone in supporting sides/sharing information in the Iran-Iraq war, but they were the only nation that legitimized Saddam's party, and sustained his power twenty years prior. The U.S. is the country of all countries that started this ongoing war. So yeah, in many important aspects of Iraq's modern history, the U.S. did act alone in damaging the nation for its own profitable means. Do you really think, Michael, that the U.S. could control Iraq, if the population were united under a common cause? Hell no! If Iraq's population were truly devoted to the foreign removal mission, they would cast aside all differences to accomplish their goal. They would burn all the oil they had before giving it to the "liberators". The U.S. needed to install some type of distraction, which ended up being the lust for power that the Iraqis were taught to desire. Simply destroy Saddam's government, and fund and fuel all sides against one another, as each attempt to climb to the top of the food chain. There are lots of different groups in Iraq, Michael - trust me. A few target Americans, but many others have been tricked into believing that the true enemies are the Iraqis themselves. Installing a puppet government in Iraq that was U.S.-friendly was the main purpose; however, obtaining that objective needed planning. The main plan was to start a civil war. Mission accomplished. How's the tunnel-vision working for you? Seriously, if these half-assed explanations help you sleep at night, then I can't blame you for clinging on to them so desperately. If you think that nineteen Arabs simply decided that they were going to hijack four commercial airplanes simultaneously and control them with pinpoint accuracy simply to enjoy the afterlife of heaven, then you're beyond all hope. A man who has no sense of history is like a man with no eyes or ears. The difference is: pre-CIA-coup Iraqis had different denominations, yet learned to get along, whereas now many of them are ravenous beasts who are trying to kill each other. Sunnis and Shi'ites have always disagreed, and more often than not prefer different systems and societies. However, they were never so opposed to each other that they participated in civil wars and massacres. If you want to believe that this is all simply a wild coincidence, then feel free to do so.
Ah of course! WHAT AN OBVIOUS SOLUTION! Except of course that "aid" comes attached with conditions of GM crops, food dumping from heavily subsidised farmers in rich countries which makes it impossible to grow the local crops and there are strict conditions of not subsidising farmers in Third World countries. Now the "aid" is determined by the WB/IMF/G8 groups and signed by the pally dictator (or a government with few choices when faced with starving populations) so its not like anyone can say much.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Do you know how many farmers commit suicide every year due to this "free trade"? Back to Iraq. How much control do they have over their own resources? They can't even stop contractors from shooting civilians or stop the US army from building a US base over the city of Babylon, which, considering your love of antiquities should merit some consideration. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4177577.stm
