WTC Collapses

So your conclusion as to the collapse is biased.

 

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That is very debatable.

 

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i've seen photos that show at least one floor laying on top of a lower floor.
i can't vouch for the photos validity.

 

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politics, different forum.

 

You seem to be of the notion that if it was an inside job, with americans involved instead of only foreigners, that they would never consider harming the american economy for their own interests. I have certainly found no evidence so support that claim. And seriously, if they were prepared to let thousands die, do we really think that the economy for your average american citizen was high on their minds?

Now, the the owner of the WTC buildings that collapsed, Larry Silverstein. And the military/oil industrial complex did handsomely indeed. And the tragedy conveniently occurred a day after Donald Rumsfeld had a few interesting things to say about military spending. 9/11 Research reports in its article "Missing Trillions":
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Missing Trillions
Rumsfeld Buries Admission of Missing 2+ Trillion Dollars in 9/10/01 Press Conference

On September 10, 2001, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld held a press conference to disclose that over $2,000,000,000,000 in Pentagon funds could not be accounted for. Rumsfeld stated: "According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions." According to a report by the Inspector General, the Pentagon cannot account for 25 percent of what it spends. 1 2

Such a disclosure normally might have sparked a huge scandal. However, the commencement of the attack on New York City and Washington in the morning would assure that the story remained buried. To the trillions already missing from the coffers, an obedient Congress terrorized by anthrax attacks would add billions more in appropriations to fight the "War on Terror."

The Comptroller of the Pentagon at the time of the attack was Dov Zakheim, who was appointed in May of 2001. Before becoming the Pentagon's money-manager, he was an executive at System Planning Corporation, a defense contractor specializing in electronic warfare technologies including remote-controlled aircraft systems. 3 4 Zakheim is a member of the Project for a New American Century and participated in the creation of its 2000 position paper Rebuilding America's Defenses which called for "a New Pearl Harbor." 5

Estimates of the sums of money missing vary wildly. A 2003 report put the amount missing at "more than a trillion dollars." 6
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Are you talking about the tests or the WTC buildings themselves?

 

No, I came to this conclusion only after studying these collapses for some time and realizing that they had to be due to controlled demolitions and that outsiders, such as Al-Queda, could not have had the access to the interiors of these buildings necessary to rig them for demolition.

At that point I had to face the fact that it was an inside job and started speculating as to what the motive would be.

Further research showed that the Taliban had refused Dick Cheney's request that they vacate their contract with Bridas Corp. of Argentina to build the oil and gas pipeline through Afghanistan to the Caspian area, where U.S. oil companies have secured leases for large tracts known to have oil and gas under them.

Do you think it was just an anomaly that Cheney repeatedly tried to imply that Iraq was involved in 911? I had bought into that for several years until being forced to look at the evidence of how these buildings actually came down.

 

leopold, it sounds as though you're saying that you don't see how the official story could be true

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true, but a government that acts in such a manner is taking one hell of a gamble.[/QUOTE]

Indeed. Far easier to fool people into thinking that sagging floors = a building that is 'poised for collapse', and just leave the rest to the public's imagination.

 

the buildings.

 

Failing that, they went for 'Weapons of Mass Destruction". I think it was more Weapons of Mass Delusion :-/. But hey, the military industrial complex made a mint...

 

notice i said one sagging floor.
doubts? i'm full of them, on both sides of the aisle.
the biggest drawback for me on the CD side is in the manner in which the towers fell.
i've seen plenty of CDs on different sizes of structures and the towers just do not fit the CD theory.

on the official side is a little harder to explain and it has nothing to do with the towers themselves but the events surrounding the collapse.
for example, the first plane to hit was captured on film by a person supposedly filming firemen testing for sewer gas and he just happened to be in the right spot to capture the hit.
second is when ruddy and the gang was racing to the site and was interviewed on the way.
ruddy said " apparently two planes attacked . . ." and was cut off in mid sentence by one of his aides. at which time he changed the subject.

 

Not really. It had a lot more to do with the oil companies and their supporting contingent. I have worked in defense for 2/3 of my career and was on 911 and now work for a large company that does both military and commercial work. There was some action generated but not all that much. It didn't help the case for the F-22 or other aircraft. Rumsfeld killed the Army Crusader gun platform. Things like the DDX destroyer were put on hold for long periods of time. They didn't rush to spend the money to up armor the Humvees to protect soldiers from roadside bombs. The soldiers did not get the body armor they would have liked to have had etc.

A lot of the extra money spent on Iraq has gone to companies like Halliburton and contractors like Blackwater. The military has an operational budget to begin with and nearly the same amount would be used whether we were in Iraq and Afghanistan or not.

I believe the primary motive for 911 was probably oil resources to keep the oil companies afloat. The wars to get at these resources needed to be disguised as we did have alternatives to go to which only required the political will.

 

Ah, ok. So there is possible evidence of a single case wherein 2 floors are stacked up together, instead, of, say, turned into meteorite like material, which makes plenty of sense in the case of explosives, but not much in terms of pancake collapses, which NIST has now ruled out now. Their theory is apparently that the floors pulled the perimeter columns in, even though certain UK experts complained that “the core columns cannot pull the exterior [i.e., perimeter] columns in via the floor.” (that's from Steven Jones' article Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?.

Dulles, a career spy, Wall Street lawyer, the CIA director whom JFK had fired after the 1961 Bay of Pigs fiasco - and the Warren Commission member who took charge of the investigation and final report (that's the commission that was made to investigate the murder of JFK) - is reported to have said, "The American people don't read."

Ofcourse, some Americans do read. And so do others. Some of us read enough to realize that the mainstream media hasn't always been reporting the truth. As in The Matrix, things don't look so rosy then. But I'd rather be in Oz if Kansas is the fiction.

 

I am not an insider, as you appear to be so unlike you i cannot just say.

These are very current events.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1984459.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Afghanistan_Pipeline

 

So 2 would make the rest telescope down at near free fall speeds?

Well, it's good to know that you've taken the official story with a grain of salt atleast...

No one that I know is arguing that the twin towers were taken down with explosives in a conventional way. I believe that psikey put it best; in normal controlled demolitions, there is an effort to only use the amount of explosives required. In the case of the twin towers, I believe that no such considerations were taken. The amount of explosives used was massively over what was needed. No, I don't have direct evidence, but there has definitely been a fair amount of talk concerning the amount of energy that was expended. The size of the dust particles, for one. I actually brought this up in some responses to a document that shaman_ brought up, by a researcher who has actually been published in the Journal for 9/11 studies (yes, the same web site that you feel is so biased), Gregory Ulrich, who, while he has some doubts about the official story, apparently has quite a few doubts about the controlled demolition theory as well.

The document that shaman_ brought up hasn't been published in the Journal for 9/11 studies, as far as I know, but another one has been. Apparently no one had taken the time to counter his points, so I did so myself. That counter is spread out through a fair amount of posts:
544, 551, 567, 580, 597, 608, 614, 616 and 618-628. There are some points that I didn't know how to respond to, but I believe I made some fairly good counters as well.

 

I guess I should have been more specific ;-)

I heard they definitely got more due to those wars, but I think that perhaps it's better to be more specific, as you have been, and name specific companies that have benefitted the most, and their ties to the government that oversaw their rise.

Yeah. The whole thing is just one tragic mess. Hopefully things will get better with Obama...

 

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/nts31283.htm

 

Why do you mention the link John?

 

Are you reading this thread?

 

John, this pipeline had been discussed for a long time and the Taliban were in control of who was going to build it through Afghanistan. Dick Cheney represented a group that had them over here three times from 1999 to 2001 to get them to vacate the contract with Bridas, which they would not do. Enron was also involved since they needed oil and gas for powerplants they built in India.

It is convoluted but in the end it is all about the oil and we were decieved by people who want to keep oil king in the United States, for at least as long as we have it somewhere in the world, which they seem to be trying to control. Think about why Dick Cheney would have secret National Energy policy meetings in early 2001.

I think a lot of people realize this now and we are seeing a real push for Alternative energies, which are quite viable.