Would Torturing Zubeida be Justified

According to The Independent, it is possible that the CIA would use methods amounting to torture in extracting information from this Al Qaeda suspect. Whether the story is based in fact or not, it raises some interesting questions.

Would torture be justified, and why? Suppose you knew that the information you could get by torturing Zubeida would save an innocent life? Suppose it would save 10,000 innocent lives? Is there any point at which you would say that torture becomes morally justified?

In my opinion, the United States should never resort to torture. No matter how useful it might seem in the short term, it will hurt us in the long term. The scary truth is that it is not possible to make ourselves completely safe from people who are willing to die to hurt us. Increasing our willingness to commit brutal and cruel acts will not deter them. It will validate their hatred of us, at least in the minds of future generations, and keep a fresh supply of terrorists coming.

I also think it's a very slippery slope. If we'll torture a potential terrorist, why not a suspected child molester? What happens when we torture someone and learn nothing? Or an innocent person? I don't want to live in a country that tortures people.

Peace.

 

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Goofy

What if Zubeida had the blueprints of plans for another 9/11? You dont think that would be reason enough for torture? I dont want to live in a country that tortures people. But I dont want to live in a country where terrorists are blowing up all of our people and buildings either :bugeye:


Groove on

 

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*stRgrL*,

After all, we all have to die sometime. So the question is:

Would you wan't to die a man(or women), or live like an animal???


Tom

 

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Not. Ever.

In my opinion, it would simply be better for the U.S. to be destroyed rather than for that to happen. If we don't honor human life and human rights, then what's the point? Why even bother of being proud of America if we're not the land of freedom and inalienable rights?

One thing the "bring-out-the-rubber-hoses" crowd seems to be overlooking is that torture involving physical pain is probably the least effective methods of obtaining information. Its effectiveness is certainly doubtful when the subject is someone willing to impale himself or herself in a fiery crash into a building.


I despise what these guys have done, and the blind stupid cruel mind-set that allows them to blithely and self-righteously murder the innocent. But you're kidding yourself if you think they're physical cowards. Beatings and physical pain are just likely to seal their lips and cement their beliefs that they're on the side of God and that much closer to glorious Paradise.

One of the unfortunate aspects of torture derives from the extreme motivational factor on the part of the victim (or subject if you prefer). The victim wants it to stop; he will lie to the interrogator. Of course - who wouldn't? The interrogators problem comes with verifying the answer. Boiled down, unless the interrogator already knows for certain that the victim knows the answer and the interrogator can confirm that answer, the answer is useless.

Thus, torture is worse than cruel and morally depraved. It is ineffective cruelty.

Peace.

 

NO

it would never, COULD never be justifided

it IS better to perish than to compamise you ethics because once they are comprimised you no longer exist

 

Times like this I'm glad I have few ethics and morals.

In the end my ethics are erased if it's going to benefit such a large crowd.

I look at you and say that's the stupidest question I've ever heard. "Hey, what situation would you rather have; (a) you hurt a terrorist; (b) 10,000 innocent people die??"

Stupid question.

 

and so it ends

the end of indevidual freedom, and human rights. That parth is so black i don't even want to TRY to see where it would lead

 

Machiavelli said that he loved his country more than he loved his soul.

I'd sacrifice my ethics. But, my god, torture is a horrible thing.

Die like a man or live with an animal? Oh yes, I would rather die than torture somone. But, I do not have the right to make that choice for 10,000 people.

Goofy, you perhaps do not understand the full dynamics of torture. It is not merely the infliction of pain, but has the aim and effect of degrading the victim, of twisting thier mind. More modern torturers, such as in the USSR, used tactics such as sleep deprivation, psychological manipulation as well as pain.

Thus, it could be possible to extract accurate information.

Asguard, if one person is tortured, that will not necessarily lead to the end of freedom and morality. If it were a government, perhaps, but an individual's morality is fluid.

If worst came to worst, I could kill myself out of shame and prevent any 'contamination' from spreading.

 

The bad aspect comes from that if we start, where do we stop? If we started torturing one person it could get worse and worse until torture was routine.

Here's my oath to you. If it comes to the point where we have a guy that holds in his hands the knowledge to save thousands of innocent human beings, I will torture him for you. As an individual I will take him from your government and torture him.

I will get the info and save thousands of lives.

Will you thank me or kill me?

It's up to you. But this way it saves the government from being condemned and saves the lives.

I'd kill myself to save thousands, without a doubt. Hell, I'd likely kill myself to save a couple hundred.

 

Terrioist is a convent lable so no-one has to think of them as members of the human race. We are ALWAYS trying to distingush ourselves from the enermy.

As to 10000 lives i like to take pacards words out of the latest startrek movie (can't rember the name)

 

Tyler

Your message came as i was writing mine.

I would sacrifice MYSELF to save 1 life but i wouldn't kill to save 1000000000 lives

 

I'll take up Tyler's oath.

If I can be reasonably sure that we have the 'right' man:
I will commit torture to save others
I will destroy my honor to protect my government's
I will commit this atrocity to spare my government from doing so
If it comes to that

Terrorists are human, but so are murderers and rapists. We protect ourselves from such, whether or not they are human.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

 

I don't like torture. I don't like the idea of torturing someone to save lives. I would feel bad doing so. It would be totally against everything I see as good about humanity. However, I could not let my own personal philosophy and feelings kill thousands of other people. Duty before desire.

 

why is it that we don't torturing rapests and murders. Come to think of it we don't even kill them because its wrong. It makes us as bad as them. I would die for my country with out a thought, i could never kill for it.

 

Well Asguard, you're lucky there are people around who will kill for the safety of people like you. Without killers, you would be speaking German right now. You might even be in a labour camp. Get used to it. Killers keep you safe. I'm so very glad to know that you would not sacrifice your precious principles to keep me and my family safe.

 

as i said i would sacrifice MYSELF for anyone in a heartbeet but i wouldn't, COULDN'T kill

 

i have NO sympathy for rapests (a little maybe for a murder depending on why they did it) my problem is that once you sacrifice your ethics where dose it end. Please concider this thread and answer:
http://www.sciforums.com/t6688/s/thread.html

 

Dunno who this independant mob is, but the whole thing smacks of being a fabrication... why the hell would anyone in this day and age use torture, when there are drugs available which would do the job twice as effectively and without the risk of the victom merely saying anything to stop the pain?

Ridiculous story.

If it WERE true though.. I'm with Asguard and Goofy on this one. If we do it once, there's nothing to stop us doing it again... and again... and again. Dont break down this wall, or we all will pay the price in losing individual rights in the long term.

 

I just remembered what my instructor in recruit school told us about beng captured and interrogated.

"I'm not going to tell you to be tough and try your hardest to keep your mouth shut. You probably couldn't anyway. But the fact is people don't have to torture you any more, and they couldn't be bothered. They'll just shoot you full of drugs and you'll be singing like a canary."