Will Palestine get the US kicked out of UNESCO?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by S.A.M., Oct 30, 2011.

  1. Gustav Banned Banned

    Messages:
    12,575
    thanks adoucette
    do you have stats for chile and china?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,829
    Chile is 44 in HDI and 50th in GDP, blowing the doors off of India in both catagories
    China is 101 in HDI and 91st in GDP, still way better than India

    Oh, and India has the fewest Olympic medals per Capita of any country competing.

    To put it in perspective they have won only 20 medals.

    EVER

    To put that dismal performance in perspective, Canada won 26 at the last Olympics.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Gustav Banned Banned

    Messages:
    12,575
    guyana and malawi?
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,391
    You're still avoiding the basic question: what is the reasoning that shows that Israel is particularly dependent on exports, and so would be deeply damaged by a slump in such?

    I don't think that's true - Israel exports a considerable amount of high-tech products and defense equipment, and various major US corporations (Microsoft, Intel) have research divisions there.

    India is critically reliant on Israeli arms exports for the high-tech parts of their military (satellites, radars, comms, advanced aircraft, etc.). So there's a few billion in exports that Israel can count on indefinitely. Israel is the 5th largest arms exporter in the world, accounting for 10% of all arms sales, and India is their main customer, accounting for half of that. I.e., 5% of all international arms sales, are exports from Israel to India.

    That doesn't imply that Israel won't find other customers, nor that the effect of a drop in Israeli exports would be particularly fatal to Israel's economy. Israel is not some mercantilist country with an export-led economy.

    The fact that something might well be a "main avenue" doesn't imply that such will necessarily be successful. Plenty of such struggles have failed outright in history.

    If the efficacy of those avenues is so sure, then why aren't the Palestinians pursuing them as their first choice? Could it be that there is considerable doubt as to whether such a campaign would gain much traction?

    There is exactly one way for Palestine to become a regular UN member state without being subject to a veto, which is the extraordinary GA override scenario. I still hold this to be extremely unlikely.

    The other options involve Palestine becoming a non-member state.

    Such as? Other than UNESCO, which UN agencies can admit states as members independently of their membership in the UN?

    The USA only has a veto in the UNSC. There has never been any chance of Palestine (or Israel) becoming members of the UNSC, so I don't see the import of the above assertion.

    Exactly - he needs to get back into the spotlight if he's to retain any claim to leadership.

    Yes he is. This is exactly a diplomatic push by the PA - headed by Abbas - and emphatically not some populist movement. It is Abbas who went to the UN and undertook this diplomatic strategy, not the Palestinian people. There is no coherent, articulated strategy emanating from the Palestinian people, apart from those articulated by their political parties (Fatah/PA, Hamas, etc.).

    Despairing as people may be, I do not think anyone is actually going to give up on the goal of statehood, nor should they. Resigning oneself to permanent occupation does even less to address their concerns than does the status quo.
     
  8. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,391
    Okay, but the last Olympics was a winter Olympics, held in Canada.
     
  9. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,829
    See links provided
     
  10. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,829
    So?

    Besides Canada won 18 at the 2008 Summer Olympics.
     
  11. Gustav Banned Banned

    Messages:
    12,575

    the irony. calls for divestment seems to be ignored in india
    Starting at $200 million annually when diplomatic relations were established in 1992, trade between Israel and India ballooned to $4.7 billion mark last year when India vaulted into second place among Israel’s export markets. This does not include defense sales which are reportedly over $1 billion annually. In the first quarter of this year the level of trade plummeted to just $336 million, the Israel Export Institute reported on Wednesday, but industry figures and government officials are hopeful that growth will resume. ​
     
  12. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,829
    So you figure SAM is really just a disgruntled Arms Dealer and Israel is her main competitor?
     
  13. Gustav Banned Banned

    Messages:
    12,575
    heh
    no telling


    is that not how it usually works? how does their system differ? referendums on every motion?
     
  14. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,391
    Also: damn near everywhere else.
     
  15. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,391
    Indeed. So we'd have been very surprised if S.A.M.'s assertion were accurate.
     
  16. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,391
    Nah, if she were in the Indian arms industry she'd be too busy setting up joint ventures with Israeli defense companies to spend much time complaining here.
     
  17. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,829
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Yeah and you won't find that changing either - since India is a non-aligned country. However they always vote for Palestine regardless of where they trade.

    And the Indian people make their own choices

    We may not be so visible in the western media but we do our own thing quite well


    I guess I would base it on the fact that Israelis are worried about their economy and willing to pull the US into another war to distract from the fact

    No it doesn't. But BDS is not only about economics, its about public opinion, I doubt that Israelis want to be considered pariahs anymore than the South Africans did.

    And:



    16 others apparently, if you are interested I will find out which ones

     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Hmm don't worry, before you know it, you'll all be dancing to the Indian tune

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFZb422DUFE
     
  20. CptBork Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,465
    But that was at the winter Olympics in Vancouver- at the summer Olympics we only won 18. Of course our atheletes are mostly self-supported, have to spend 10 hrs a day working some mundane job and then another 8hrs training on their own dime. Our athletes receive very little financial support from the government, and unlike many other major players: no conscripting athletes from age 3/miraculous age-reversal treatments for over-aged gymnasts/building multimillion-dollar training facilities on top of the tallest mountains where the air pressure is lowest/approval and support for doctors to research new steroids to beat the drug tests.

    So 18 ain't bad considering we rarely cheat, and when our athletes do cheat, they are 10 times likelier to be caught than their neighbours to the south, and if/when they're caught, the discipline is likely to be 10 times as harsh.
     
  21. CptBork Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,465
    Well the question needs to be asked then- what else are the Palestinians supposed to do? Israel keeps demanding that they recognize it as "The Jewish State" without any clarifications about what this means for Israeli-born Arab citizens or Christians, or the status of Palestinian refugees who might be hoping for compensation or a limited right of return, and because the Palestinians won't pander to such ambiguous and unreasonable demands, Israel says they're not negotiating in good faith.

    The way I've always seen it, peace between Israel and its neighbours would be nice, but it's never been relevant. In sheer survival terms, all that's ever mattered is that the US, EU and friends see Israel making reasonable attempts towards this goal. Bulldozing Palestinian homes, constructing residences only for Jews, and otherwise entrenching the occupation doesn't strike most such friends as a move towards peace. Throwing a hissy-fit by increasing the pace of the occupation and settlement in response to the UN recognizing the Palestinians as a cultural entity won't impress anyone either.

    If the fear is that the Palestinians don't want a lasting peace, then Israel should do what's been asked of it for the last 45 years and make a genuine proposal based on the 1967 borders to create a functional Palestinian state. If the Palestinians and any of their militant supporters decide to use the opportunity as a means of attacking Israel instead, after being given the land that's been promised for their state, only then would Israel have the legitimacy to annex territories in self-defense, not beforehand just because some $5 souvenir crystal ball says the Palestinians are guaranteed to attack.
     
  22. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,829
    Not from what I can see.

    Indeed, Indians not attending an invitation to an art show hurts who exactly?

    And the port of Cochin handles ~3% of Indian port traffic, so BFD.

    Now about improving your abysmal Human Development Index, which is lower than the Palestinian Territories, what are you doing to fix that?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Attf6niq-nM

    Arthur
     
  23. Gustav Banned Banned

    Messages:
    12,575

    quad counsels patience...


    ...which is nothing but an endorsement of the status quo as laid out here......

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    ahh, that must be this......

    awesome post bork
     

Share This Page