Will Britain vote for Brexit?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by James R, Jun 22, 2016.

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Brexit or Bremain?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. I would support Brexit and I think it will succeed.

    3 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. I would not support Brexit, but I think it will succeed.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I would support Brexit, but I think Britain will Remain.

    2 vote(s)
    22.2%
  4. I would support Remain, and I think Britain will Remain.

    3 vote(s)
    33.3%
  5. I have no opinion / don't want to express my opinion on this.

    1 vote(s)
    11.1%
  6. Brexit? Bremain? What 'chu talkin' about, Willis?

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,418
    Our Sciforums mandarins seem to have decided that this quote is spurious. It may or may not be.

    But the current President of the European Commission, Luxembourg's Jean-Claude Juncker, does appear to have a habit of saying similar things. From reading some of the news reports that the Wikiquote thing cites, I think that Juncker has a penchant for irony, that might cause him to be misunderstood at times when quoted out of context. But I do think that his remarks do reflect how the EU leadership thinks and how it operates.

    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Juncker

    "There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties."

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31082656

    "We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back."

    http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/artic...Tricks-in-den-langen-Bruesseler-Naechten.html

    On the 2007 Lisbon Treaty (which was enacted over the people's heads after both France and the Netherlands voted down the EU's proposed new Constitution) -

    "Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?"
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
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  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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  5. geordief Valued Senior Member

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  7. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,990
    YES! You are perfectly right to draw attention to the unacceptable mindset of this jumped-up Luxembourgeois. (Grr!)

    That is why Cameron opposed his nomination, and that type of attitude in the EU Parliament is what originally got Farage's goat. This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to change, because it is precisely this that ordinary people smell and which makes them hostile to the institutions of the EU. It can be read as a kind of subtext to the UK exit, even though the immediate trigger was to do with high levels of immigration.

    Those of us Brits who wanted to Remain would have been keen for the UK to continue to be the member of the team to point out awkward truths and push for pragmatic improvement, along with like-minded allies in the Netherlands, Denmark and , increasingly, Germany. My hope now is that UK withdrawal may awaken the EU leaders (who are the national heads of government, not Juncker) to the danger that lies in integration moves that get ahead of their publics' acceptance. That will pose a huge dilemma for them in regard to the Euro of course, since the success of that concept relies on common fiscal policy and a transfer union. Which is why John Major kept us out of it at Maastricht. What an under-rated man.

    I think the Euro may collapse eventually and, when it does, the member states will need exactly the types of mutual arrangement that the UK had so painfully carved out for itself, within the EU. We would have been the sustainable model for them all!
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
  8. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,781
    A cut and paste of a reply I was going to post elsewhere.

    * * *

    Further on that (and off topic).



    Speaking the day after he dined with European leaders for a "last supper" in Brussels -- and as those leaders met again Wednesday without him to discuss the post-Brexit future -- Cameron had a clear message from EU heads: that access to the European single market will not be granted without some tradeoff regarding the free movement of people across borders.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/29/europe/uk-brexit-eu-referendum/index.html
     
  9. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    23,507
    There is no evidence he actually made the comment outside of a translated comment typed into an Italian guy's twitter feed.

    Thank you for aptly demonstrated just how often he is taken out of context.

    The full quote:

    The president of the European Commission Jean-Claude Juncker said "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties. One cannot exit the euro without leaving the EU".
    And context for the quote.. In other words, what he was actually discussing, the Greek financial crisis when Greece was unable to repay its loans and was attempting to bypass the EU by trying to negotiate its debts down despite the EU having forgiven large chunks of Greece's debts and it still failed to shrink it's overblown Government and actually be able to finance the country and repay the debt.. Which your BBC link provides quite well.

    So thank you for the prime example of taking quotes out of context, Yazata.

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    And another example of a quote taken out of context.

    Do you read German, Yazata?

    Because the quote in question is actually his discussing meetings with other EU members and leaders.. The meetings that run late into the night trying to negotiate. Ergo, they decide on something and then leave it in the room and if the other participants in the meeting and negotiation do not kick up a fuss and they are certain that it will not result in "riots or great outcry" because it could be something bad in regards to the public, because the public are not aware of what has actually been decided in these meetings and negotiations, they then move forward with the negotiations.

    Great find in taking posts out of context and excellent examples of showing how these posts can be taken out of context by quoting just a portion of the statements as an example, Yazata. Good work again.

    You left out the part where he said "Britain is different" at the start of that sentence. In other words, should he draw attention to the fact that the UK was treated somewhat differently in the regards of its sovereignty and its exceptions in the EU and this came after he commented on how it was the responsibility of member states to explain things to their citizens and populace. Another good find in how quotes are taken out of context...
     
    joepistole likes this.

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