Why should weed be illegal?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by sifreak21, Nov 15, 2010.

  1. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Can you ever look things up before putting your foot in your mouth?

    Feb 27 2009
    Driving after smoking even a small amount of marijuana almost doubles the risk of a fatal highway accident, according to an extensive study of 10,748 drivers involved in fatal crashes between 2001 and 2003.
    A study by the French National Institute for Transport and Safety Research published in the British Medical Journal found that seven percent of drivers involved in a fatal highway crash used marijuana.

    The researchers estimated that at least 2.5 percent of the 10,748 fatal crashes studied were directly caused by the use of marijuana


    The drugged driver started his crashing spree around 2:40 p.m. on March 25, 2010 along the Bear Valley Parkway section of Escondido, slamming his SUV into at least seven other cars in the area. He did not stop for any of the accidents, instead, flipping a U-turn onto the other side of the road and drove the wrong way, making other car dodge him as he barreled down the road.

    Six more car accidents occurred as the man headed towards I-15, crashing head-on into a 1998 Nissan Pathfinder near Via Rancho Parkway, and coming to a stop. Escondido police approached the driver who put his medical marijuana card (for an undisclosed condition) on display as an explanation for his erratic behavior. He then hit the face of one police officer as they arrested and charged him for suspicion of felony hit-and-run, assaulting an officer of the peace, and driving under the influence of marijuana.

    All told, the man caused thirteen accidents in a one-mile stretch of road.

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  3. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

    There's a long history of studies showing that marijuana does not result in significant driving dangers:


    Some of which include actual controlled studies, rather than post-hoc blood tests of drivers in accidents suspected of being on drugs (as in the study you cite, and which clearly result in several biases). To the extent that any of these studies identified correlations with marijuana and accidents, the effect has been imputed to the drivers rather than the drug itself. I.e., the sorts of people who tend to smoke marijuana tend to be bad drivers, independent of whether they're high at the time or not. See here:


    Moreover, this line of argument says a lot more about alcohol than marijuana and so, given that modern societies are fine with keeping alcohol legal and accepting these costs, don't add up to much of an argument against marijuana. Cell phones are a bigger traffic danger.
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  5. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

    put my foot in my mouth? want me to post all of the nicotine and alcohol related deaths from the last year to? there would be hundreds of thousands of them from just nicotine alone and tens if not hundreds of thousands from alcohol and what a few hundred from marijuana? and no im not saying the marijuana related deaths are less trajic than the others.. hell i bet even driving under the influence of medicine would account for more deaths than marijuana

    check this out too the numbers ar not correct but there are a reasonable estimate.. now tell me whos sticking there foot in there mouth?

    here are some more references food for thought and again tell me why marijuana should be illegal when these ARE legal

    marijuana stats arnt even remotely close to thoes numbers
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2010
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  7. Search & Destroy Take one bite at a time Moderator

  8. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

    The only good argument I've seen is that it's a mind-altering substance. Of course, so is alcohol, but they usually don't think that should subject to banning. Hypocrites.

    I think it should be legal and regulated like alcohol and tobacco (in other words, you have to be of a certain age to buy it).
  9. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

    Alcohol causes a thousand times more accidents as well as violent anti-social behaviour and yet it is perfectly legal. A bottle of whisky costs about 15 euro and any kid can afford that.

    If someone is looking for a 'gateway' drug they will find it; from tobacco and alcohol, to glue, prescription drugs and solvents; all of them easily available and legal. Yes it's true that someone who generally abuses drugs will also abuse cannabis and indeed it may have been their first experience of an illegal drug but as mentioned before, people who just want to get off their heads on anything will find a way to do it, they don't need cannabis.

    There is some evidence to suggest that people who start smoking cannabis from an early age may be more susceptible to certain psychosis including schizophrenia but the researchers are not clear that those people would not have developed an illness in any case even without cannabis.

    The pros for cannabis: It can be tremendously inspiring to musicians,writers and artists. Actually, a lot of great art, music and philosophy would just not have happened without the aid of various drugs and intoxicants.

    The cons: It can make you lazy and unmotivated but that is not a hard and fast rule as it affects everyone in subtly different ways depending on personality.
  10. domesticated om Stickler for details Valued Senior Member

    It makes me more motivated and productive actually (brings me up instead of down). It compels me to stay awake for longer periods of time, and also makes me a bit more obsessive about organization. I've also noticed that it greatly amplifies my threshold for patience, so I find it much easier to commit to methodical tasks.
  11. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

    OK, back to the OP's Q:

    The USA has artificially jacked the price of substances it has deemed "illicit" way beyond their actual value by a continued effort to repeal the law of supply and demand. This has created a huge black market in them, stimulated the growth of alcohol Prohibition - styled organized crime 'families', filled US prisons and created a massive infrastructure related to interdiction and related issues.

    The end result is that about 1/2 of Mexico's national income comes from the export of drugs to the US. (Much of the other half comes from oil sales to the US)

    If the US were to legalize or decriminalize cannabis it would cut deep into Mexico's GNP, possibly scuttling their economy and sending them into deeper recession. That would take out the US economy as well, and that would throw the world economy into a cocked hat. A classic Catch - 22 if ever I have seen one.

    Further, most of the folks in US jails and prisons are marijuana possession cases. Ceasing enforcement, interdiction, trial, "treatment", parole, public service, customs searches, drug dogs etc etc etc would end up with a lot more folks being unemployed. Closed prisons would stand idle and police depts would be scrambling for (more legitimate) means of acquiring cash than 'drug forfeiture' laws.

    "Gateway" drug? That is too silly a theory to seriously address at all. :biglaugh:

    The classification of cannabis as a class 1 controlled substance is predicated on the supposition that it has no medicinal value at all. Since that same US govt has disproven its own statements on this with the National Academy of Sciences School of Medicine Report to the Federal Government on Marijuana and Medicine this classification is shown to be political/moral rather than scientific.

    There are fewer traffic accidents due to cannabis consumption ONLY by drivers than are caused by "sober" and "clean" drivers this 'reason' doesn't float either.

    A middle school child who decides to "get stoned" will go to cannabis first if he/she can get some. Failing that they will go to alcohol, cleaning fluids or solvents. If my kid was going to get stoned, I would prefer he smoke pot than that he huff paint thinner, but maybe you have different preferences.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    As for altering your personality or motivation or all of that other unsubstantiated stuff, as Mr Sullum says "Drugs are just chemicals, some people us them as an excuse to act like assholes." Some of the most successful people in the USA are potheads.

    Bottom line: money and jobs is why cannabis remains illegal. Also why it remains extremely profitable.
  12. domesticated om Stickler for details Valued Senior Member

    Throughout all the pro-legalization efforts, this is one argument that's been a thorn in my side.

    Legalizing marijuana will have no effect on the traffic of cocaine/heroin/meth. The cartels will simply stop dealing in marijuana. They wont go anywhere - simply removes one market for them.
  13. jmpet Valued Senior Member

    Marijuana is not good for the young developing brain in the sense that it triggers different responses from stimuli than being straight and the brain develops differently. In the same vein, alcohol is also prohibited for the youth.

    I would say 21 is a good age for people to legally start using pot, as by then their brain is fully developed and they have a sense of what they're going to do with their life. At this point, marijuana is not a threat to the brain- it becomes a positive agent- it has a high reward ratio (it really works), it relaxes you and spaces you out... it's much better than alcohol. Coming home from a hard day's work and lighting up is a good thing.

    Personally I would rather be drunk than high because I feel more rewarded with vast quantities of alcohol, but I also realize alcohol is dangerous for my adult body. Last thing I need is have to ask my siblings for part of their liver because I fucked mine up on alcohol.

    Vast amounts of pot only makes me groggy with a clouded head. The perfect combination is alcohol plus pot but I digress.

    But since it's so pervasive in society due to its illegality, all we hear are news-worthy pot nightmare stories. 30 million American's can't be wrong.
  14. ejderha Exhausted Registered Senior Member


    If weed becomes legal, tobacco and alcohol industries would collapse. Period.

    Does anybody have an idea what kind of 'money' is that.
    I don't even want to know.

    Oh on the second thought, they would sell weed on a higher price so, may be they wouldn't collapse but would be seriously threatened.
  15. domesticated om Stickler for details Valued Senior Member


    Exaggerated wrong conclusion.

    I wish I could think of something more solid to back up this argument than "personal experience", but in my observations of culture - marijuana is always a supplemental intoxicant instead of the only intoxicant. I've been to countless drinking events [parties/concerts/etc] over the years where drinking and marijuana accompany one another. Passing around a joint is a strong tradition, but people damn sure aren't going to quit drinking.

    Tobacco doesn't even belong to the same list as alcohol or marijuana. one obvious difference - You can't legally or rationally use them at your place of employment like tobacco. Cigarettes are not strong intoxicants, and they don't even provide the same form of recreational sensation.
    There's also the fact that I know a lot of people who chain smoke cigarettes like a freight train when they drink or get high LOL. Neither of those things are going anywhere.
  16. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    But you only asked about marijuana didn't you? You seem to want to talk about other drugs and avoid staying on track with what you first asked about...marijuana, why is that? Since I've brought up a valid point that marijuana kills and injures others is all you can do is switch the subject matter instead of saying that I was right and marijuana can be very harmful to others? :shrug:
  17. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Research has proven that marijuana is a gateway drug.

    "While some research shows that many hard drug users used cannabis or alcohol before moving on to the harder substances, other research shows that some serious drug abusers have used other drugs before using cannabis or alcohol. The former is particularly evident in individual drug-abuse histories which tend to show that "hard drug" users do progress from one drug to another."

  18. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    So that means everyone that might have mental problems and not be aware of them until they use marijuana and they have a "episode" ? Many people have mental problems so how do we keep them off of marijuana that could trigger an episode especially if it is legalized?
  19. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

    we are talking about marijuana but other drugs that are legal kill FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR 1000x far more people a year why are they legal? not switching the subject at all quoting stats that other legal drugs are far worse yet they are legal. this is the 2nd time you brought up me "switching the subject" but im not. marajuana isnt harmful to others.. there is no cases that i know of of someone overdoasing on marijuana.

    I comparing an illegal drug that everyone seems to use to an out... yet there are 2 drugs there are EVERYWHERE that are A. WAY bigger gateway drugs and B. kill WAYYYY more people every year.. the side effects of marijuana is what you eat everything in the house and you get really mellow
  20. ejderha Exhausted Registered Senior Member

    I accept that, also wrote it down at the post.

    From personal experience and observation I can fairly say that people who give up smoking and drinking for health or money problems still continue to use weed in other forms.

    I know it's going to sound weird but, in some muslim countries people feel subconsciously comfortable with weed than the other substances. Alcohol is 'haram', smoking is 'mekruh', but no mention of weed. Besides, it's organic. I am serious. Oh, and it's easy to obtain and cheaper here compared to West.
  21. sifreak21 Valued Senior Member

    Research has also proven alcohol, and nicotine are also gateway drugs.. and you say some serious drug abusers.. same can be said about every single drug on the market if you put the word "some" in it.. im pointing out the fact that other drugs are bigger gateway drugs and other "legal" drugs are far far worse in the points you say

    A. gateway drugs
    B. ammount of people that are killed each year

    studies have been proven to show both yet no one wants to recognize it and use marijuana as the out.

    soo the standpoint you have that it should be illegal because A its a gateway drug and B it kills people every year are both idiotic and moot points because there are Legal drugs that are gateway drugs and kill tens/hundreds of thousands more people each year
  22. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Yes, those are valid points as to why marijuana should be kept illegal because they are the same reasons that alcohol shouldn't have been legalized as well. So we keep making the same errors in judgment with some drugs that you think should be a legal part of the market but you know what happened when alcohol was legalized, many people were killed and caused accidents as well.

    That said I believe that marijuana should be decriminalized and make possession of less than an ounce a misdemeanor punishable by fines only. But more than an ounce it would be considered selling for profit and should be treated as a criminal offense with jail time for 3rd offense.
  23. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

    But that still amounted to less damage to society than the effects of prohibition.

    The question of legalization is not whether some drug is "good" or "harmless" but whether a policy of prohibition does more harm than good.

    And it's difficult to see what good marijuana prohibition is doing.

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