Why Macs Suck BALLS

Discussion in 'Computer Science & Culture' started by amark317, Sep 26, 2008.

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  1. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

    Yeah, I've worked on a Mac a few times before. The desktop is impossible to work with. At least from a PC user's perspective.

    Although its operating system is pretty good.
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  3. phlogistician Banned Banned

    I've never a had a motherboard fail, in 15 years of homebuilds. Sure, some have better features than others, but Mac mobos being superior, price on price? Never.
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  5. ScyentsIzLief Banned Banned

    If people look for value, they go for PC. The only I see that macs have over PC is their innovative designs and "wireless-ness."

    Apple makes great but expensive products.
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  7. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    Their products are expensive, but not that great. While certain characteristics of Macs are really great, they are not as quality and trouble-free as many people like to think.
  8. Nasor Valued Senior Member

    I disagree; if you look closely at the specs (not just the "obvious" numbers like raw processor speed or amount of RAM), the price of a mac will be about the same as the price of a similarly-speced pc. Now, you could perhaps argue that the individual components that make up a mac are overpriced - but if you purchased all those components separately from newegg or somewhere and cobbled them together into a pc, you wouldn't really save any money.

    As someone who currently owns a mac and three PCs (all are running windows XP, the newest one is is about a year old), I can definitely say that the mac is much more stable and easier to use (once you know how to use the OS). If you want to simply sit down at a computer and get serious work done, the mac is better; you get to actually just do your work instead of fighting with the OS to get it to do what you want it to do. You never have trouble with some cryptically-names process suddenly eating up 99% of your system resources, things don't suddenly lock up or close for no reason, etc.

    I also used to work in a college computer lab that had large numbers of both macs and PCs, and we spent virtually all of our time trying to keep the windows machines working properly. The macs hardly ever had problems.
  9. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

    As someone who owns 3 PCs and 2 laptops, all Windows XP based, and also someone who supported approximately a thousand Windows 2000/XP based PCs, and 5 Macs in total (over time), I can easily state that you are completely wrong. All my users who sit at my managed Windows machines get their serious work done, with little to no trouble.

    However those same 5 Macs? Three of them were consistently problematic, one was barely satisfactory (and the last one was a G5 when G5s were the shizznizz, and I admit that machine was sweet). I've seen the same lockups, processor bogging, crashes etc occur on MacOS as occurs on Windows.

    I will tell you the problem with Windows does not exist on the machines, it exists sitting on the respective chairs. Give the user admin privileges and they'll install all the junkware they can find online...and then complain to the IT department or their IT provider.

    Anecdote: I once had a customer who insisted that the hard drive in their week old XP PC was defective physically. The real problem?: She had installed a stupid dolphin screensaver/startup logo/spyware piece of crap that bloated the registry to the point that Windows could barely function.

    Even though users have admin privileges on Mac, there simply exists little to no additional software for adware/spyware to take advantage of. Malware writers simply target idiot users of Windows more often.

    Same problem. How many times did you come across game emulators, screen savers packed with adware, 12 different MP3 player apps, 4GB of personal data on EACH Windows logon profile? Did this ever occur on an Apple machine?

    Blaming Windows for users' abuse is unfair.
  10. phlogistician Banned Banned

    Fucking A dude.

    I've supported a lot of OS's in my IT career, and have seen very little of the problems attributed to Windows, apart from when, as you say, the problem lies between the screen and the chair.

    At home I have three desktops, and four laptops, running OS's from W2K pro, to Vista. The oldest laptop is nine years old, runs W2K pro, and still works like a charm.

    For work, I support Wintel servers. I work in a rather large environment, comprising of some 1,800 servers. We get relatively few failures, none really OS related, the only problems are caused by 3rd party applications, of which there are many and various, and as you say, Macs do not suffer like Windows, there are fewer apps, and fewer exploits for Macs.

    Also, I have yet to see a Mac hosting an application in a business environment, or taking part in the three tier Web Server/Apps Server/DB server architecture. Macs are end user only, in effect. Not scalable, not for serious use, they are mere terminals. Can you build a global authentication model, with geographic locations, etc, innately from a Mac? I know they can take part in LDAP directories, and use MS Active Directory, but is their a native option?
  11. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

    Wow...1800 servers

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    that sounds like fun.

    There were the Mac servers way back when, but no-one bit. MacOS is simply untested even against Linux as a server OS...who was going to take that risk?

    A lot of the anti-Windows statements on this forum are generated by Microsoft haters or Open Source champions...very biased opinions.
  12. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member


    Configure a Mac on Apple's site. Now configure a Dell Studio Hybrid.

    Mac - 2.0 Core 2, 2GB DDR2 667MHz, 160GB SATA 5400rpm, SuperDrive, 20" Cinema, wireless keyboard and mouse, no extended services, MacOS
    Grand Total: USD 1652.
    Total without the overpriced monitor: USD 1053.

    Dell - 2.1 Core 2, 3GB DDR2 667MHz, 320GB SATA 5400rpm, Blu-ray Reader / DVD Writer, 20" Wide screen, wireless keyboard and mouse, no extended services, Vista
    Grand Total: USD 1,149.
    Total without the Dell monitor: USD 949.

    Apple for some reason fattens the price of their flat screen...I've never extensively used a Cinema monitor, only briefly at customer service calls in the past. In those instances I recognize no superior quality over your standard AOC or Viewsonic monitors.

    Outside of this, not that the monitor-less configs are indeed closely priced, however the Dell option gives a hard drive of double the size of the Apple offering, a gig extra RAM and a Blu-ray enabled machine. Certainly not similarly configured.
  13. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    I guess it sounds interesting that XP probably has a bad rap because Windows users are abusers. This would be in the sense that there are so much more apps for windows and stuff on the internet. People are open to do alot more stupid shit on Windows than on Macs. If people use core solid software on Windows, they would never have these probelms. What gives XP its bad rap for instability is not XP itself, but the fact that users go out, and find themselves lots of garbage/malware to cause their computers to go screwy.
  14. John99 Banned Banned

    Well said.
  15. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    $832.39 - Custom Power Rig.
    Intel Core 2 Quad Q9300 2.50GHz, 45nm, 64-bit - Quad Core Processor
    2GB DDR2 800MHz RAM (Upgradable to 8GB)
    1TB Hard Drive 16MB Cache
    Dual Layer DVD +/- RW Burner
    Antec EarthWatts 650W PSU (80 PLUS Certified Energy Efficient)
    Windows XP Pro SP 3 32-bit with all updates validated.

    NVIDIA 8600GT
    -540MHz nVidia 8600GT GPU (Graphics Processing Unit)
    -512MB GDDR3 1400MHz RAM
    -DirectX 10
    -Dual DVI (Connect 2 monitors for Dual-Monitor interface.)
    -2 DVI-RGB adapters, S-Video Cable, HDTV Cable included

    10/100/1000 Ethernet
    8-Channel Surround Sound
    Front Audio Ports, 2 Front USB 2.0, 6 Rear USB 2.0
    Expansions: 1 PCIEx16, 1 PCIEx1, 2 PCI
    Integrated VGA
    Legacy Serial Port
    Legascy Parallel Port

    Samll foot print micro-desktop.
    Sturdy steel chassis with carry handle.
    Ventilated cooling system with air duct.
    Pad lock loop for secure fastening.
  16. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    I hate MS because of their fascist monopoly on source code. Patent your app, OK, but to patent source code is business profiteeting that causes far less innovation in software markets.

    Regardles, I use XP because it is the standared. Even all the instructions for major applications are for Windows with Mac instructions on the side.

    I'm afraid to isntall Linux on my PC. Ubuntu completelly crashed on me to the point there was no way to boot it up. No safe mode or anything. I could never figure out how to check device manager to make sure my hardware drivers worked. Furthermore, the filesystem made no sense.

    As for hardware, I much prefer to get good parts on line to custom build a PC instead of purchasing from Dell. I wouldn't go near apple products for the simple reason that they are even way more over priced than Dell. Even if I wanted to use Apple OS, I would still use custom hardware, and never Apple. That is if OSX does work on non-apple hardware.
  17. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

    Agreed, however, I compared *cough* Apples and Dells to stick with the big brand offerings.
  18. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

    Granted, but Microsoft is one of the few companies who we can safely guess will survive the current economic crisis, now aren't they?

    Further to that, why would you say that it's far less innovation? There are tons of great software titles for Windows...

    One of the many, many problems with open source offerings.

    That's cool...but I'd always recommend a brand PC for someone who can't support the machine themselves.
  19. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    Who cares if they survive or not. I would love to see them die. The fact is MS has caused far far far far less innovation because of source code patents. It is one thing to patent a software product, but patenting source code gives control over anybody's use of it. People cannot develop software without running into source code that has already been patented by other companys mainly MS, and also Apple and others.

    This is one of the reasons why we don't have 100 times more and 100 times better than the software than what is out now. That is the reaon why Windows is really the only OS to choose from. Other than Mac. No other company has or can create an OS with their own multitude of apps to compete, and give us better choices. If there 100 stable OS for the non-savvy end-user to choose from, there would be more and better competition on innovation. But what do all these brand name computers have on them? Windows. If all these brand name computer companies had a wide range of OS/Apps that are on par with Windows to choose from, end-users would see a much better quality in their computing experisnce.
  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    If the user - me - has the luxury of a professional computer wrangler to keep their Windows system running well, then maybe no problem.

    Speaking as someone who must deal with a Windows machine running XP and Microsoft software without professional help at hand, I can tell you that I have trouble with it, and my '94 Mac is and has always been - from day one - much more trustworthy (as well as being about three times as fast for everything I do on both machines).

    You can blame the user all you want - and every administrator I know does - but I am damn sick of having to learn how to delve into the machinery of this thing, and the details of the software, and so forth, just to get something to print right, or get rid of stuff I never asked for, or change back stuff I never asked it to change, or open a file, or send an email to a chosen address, or unfreeze the screen, or get an icon off the desktop without - for sure without - losing track of the application, or find all the pieces of some application that was making trouble to rid myself of it, or figure out why the machine was suddenly taking five times as long to perform ordinary tasks, or any of a dozen silly, stupid, mundane wastes of time I never - not from day one, not ever - had to deal with on the old Mac.

    And if you are wondering why Windows users end up crowded with copies of mp3 players and the like, I'm not - it's not easy to keep that stuff off the machine, or uninstall things that have - for example - rooted themselves into the fucking registry with their own "update" and re-installation features cryptically labeled. I had to buy an aftermarket book, 300+pages thick, and pricey software, just for ordinary housekeeping.

    Pah. The hard drive just kicked in again, for some reason - I'm just typing here, the machine has its own agenda. Noisy bastard, too - all that stuff for playing music etc, and a loud white noise generator at the center of it.
  21. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

    Well, there'd suddenly exist about a billion computers with no support. Expenses galore to shift all corporate machines to an alternative.

    Not to mention the loss of one of the world's biggest revenue generators. Not a good thing in the middle of an economic crisis.

    How so? Again, there are thousands of titles for Windows.

    I disagree. While I champion avoiding Linux in the corporation - because of the complete lack of focused support, half-hearted drivers base and sometimes unprofessional design process - it remains a choice for the SOHO market because of the price point and personalization offerings (not to mention the fan-boy/geek factor). The caveat being of course that the user has to be somewhat technically minded to use the lesser known distributions.

    Also, Dell et al have incorporated Ubuntu (mainly) into their offerings. Thus users do have an OS choice on their home devices.

    Further...why would it be better to have 10 different PC OS offerings, rather than 2? Could you imagine the absolute chaos and expense for support? I guarantee that purchasing a PC would be way more expensive than it is, if the brand name companies had to write and support 10 sets of OS drivers for every component.
  22. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member


    I'm 99% sure you're being unfair in comparison.

    - How old is your Windows machine?
    - How much software installed on the Mac as opposed to the Windows machine?
    - Which one is connected to the internet without a proper firewall/antimalware program?
    - Which one do you install free crap on like 58 screensavers or 19 picture viewing programs?

    Because it's almost always your fault. Either that or software has become intelligent, sentient and malicious on top of it...and all the systems administrators in the world are blissfully unaware of this fact.

    I'll bet if that machine were on my managed network, the software that you never asked for...which of course could have never installed itself, would have never been there.

    Of course it is. Why were the MP3 players there in the first place? Use iTunes OR Winamp OR the installed Windows Media Player. Why did you need 5 of them? Most people should only need two at most (Windows Media Player and iTunes). Why are Cowon Jet Audio and Teen Spirit leaving mystery entries in the registry if you never installed them? Oh yeah I forgot...they packed up their suitcases and moved into your PC because they were bored on www.freestufftodownload.com

    I suggest if software "sneaks" onto your machine, that you READ the caveats of "freeware" carefully. Most of them warn when they install annoying crap like Mr Jeeves Toolbar or some unknown file indexer.

    Without seeing your system, I can't tell you what's causing it...but blaming it on Windows automatically is akin to blaming your steering wheel or the company logo on your car for the noise the engine makes.

    (Disclaimer: I allude nothing about the quality of any software title or site even if the titles are mentioned...)
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2008
  23. EntropyAlwaysWins TANSTAAFL. Registered Senior Member


    How right you are.
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