Why is there so much unjust suffering in this world despite God?

Why does god not do something about unjust suffering?

Why does god allow so much confusion about who he is such that there are literally thousands of religions, most of which conflict with eachother?

Why doesn't god's plan seem to make any sense?

Why doesn't god ever heal amputees?

Some possible answers:
1. God is impersonal. He just doesn't care what happens to you or anyone else. :bugeye:

2. God is personal but impotent. He cares, but for some reason can't do anything about it. Maybe it violates the prime directive to interfere or something.

3. God is insane. He has the power and desire to interfere, but doesn't do it BECAUSE he wants to. :m:

4. God doesn't exist.

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SamCDKey:

I'm having an exceedingly difficult time discerning whether or not you are joking.

If God can be held to be good and held to be perfect, then yes, all things are either good or evil. If God is not good, nor evil, but amoral, then we have no reason to discuss morality in relation to him. Indeed, morality becomes something else entirely.

Can you seek harm for harm's sake?

"I know this: if life is an illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me."

LightGigantic:

Perfect goodness cannot tolerate their existence even in a material world or in a prison. It can only tolerate the complete and utter annihilation of all evil, lest it be something less than perfect goodness.

Perfect goodness cannot see them exist in -any- realm. Evil is contradictory to perfect goodness and therefore must perfect goodness stamp it out.

Then you all ready have shown that God is flawed profoundly. That our nature is open change by God's power indicts God of evil. He is therefore not perfectly good.

Eternity must consist of an infinite series of infinitely small points of time. In order to be eternal, time must exist.

Yet the material world is real and, as noted above, no eternal world can exist apart from time.

To say that God allows and facillitates the action and reaction which allows for ignorance's continued activity is to indict God further of evil. Moreover, as noted, even on an "insubstantial level" evil cannot be tolerated by perfect goodness.

Superluminal:

That things are determined means what?

 

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Prince James

And it is getting annhilated - in the material world which operates out of the illusion of linear time

It is getting stamped out - in the material world which operates out of the illusion of linear time

Its not by force it is by opportunity - just like the king can open the prison doors but the inmate can decide to stay in if he wants - the ultimate issue is that it is your choice

Only from your perspective of material conditioning - you have no idea how the fabric of eternity is constructed and you have no idea of god's omnipotency either . Your hypithesis may seem suitable by dint of your logic, but because you are fallible (imperfect senses, cheating propensity, tendency to make mistakes and teh cheating propensity - of course not just you personally, but all conditioned souls) your logic is also fallible, just like you can speculate about the nature of nothingness by dint of your experience of somethingness (in otherwords your speculative process is faulty because you work out of a framework of diametrical opposites to determine th e other end of the scale that you are not familiar with - and you can even argue that the scale that you think is familair to you, ie this material world, also evades you on a few key issues too). How can you determine the nature of the eternal realm when even this phenomenal world is beyond you?

real, like a dream is real when you are dreaming - a dream is not real when you wake up - and your insistence for the standards of an eternal realm is an entirely fallible premise

But thats the point - it doesn't continue - everyone's days in ignorance are numbered because the soul is eternal and ignorance is not an eternal companion of the soul - from the souls perspective, the transition from ignorance to liberation is quicker than th e blinking of an eye

By god's omnipotency, he has rendered the performance of evil totally inconsequential - its just like the evil one performs in some vague dream - when you wake up the dream can barely be remembered and by the time you are well into the swing of your morning it has completely vacated your mind

 

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spamandham

What makes you so sure he doesn't?

Perhaps we just like to argue - this site is a prime example

Probably because you are not god

And how exactly would that benefit them, since there are many more millions of people with fully intact limbs who are also in a suffering condition?

Or alternatively we are impersonal and are not really serious about understanding god (and then wonder why it hurts when we hit ourself in the head with a hammer)

Or alternatively we have been created as eternal particles with free will, and for god to charge onto the scene with his potencies would violate the conditions of our existence

Or he doesn't interfere because we literally push him away at every moment and are adverse to the very notion of religion and the mention of the word "god"

[/QUOTE]
Or alternatively the notion of god as your personal labourer in your private garden of selfishness doesn't exist.

 

Light Gigantic:

I'd have you show how it is illusory?

Pure goodness cannot accept mere opportunity. To allow opportunity to trump action is to subjugate goodness to another end.

Very simply: Eternity is a concept which is remarkably simple. It is the extent of infinite time. In order to be so made, it must consist of an infinite series of infinitely small points. This is the very definition of having an infinite expanse in time.

It's real enough to give experiences to this "soul" is it not?

Is it not possible that souls shall exist indefinitely in ignorance?

Inconsequential is not irradicated.

 

Prince James

You mean a scriptural quote or direct perception of god ??(please don't give me another opportunity to drop the analogy about the electron or the president of the united states-lol )

How can an opportunity be lost in a linear frame work which bears no impact on eternity?

No - there are scriptural quotes that explain how the soul is doing absolutely nothing in this world

BG 5.8-9: A person in the divine consciousness, although engaged in seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, eating, moving about, sleeping and breathing, always knows within himself that he actually does nothing at all. Because while speaking, evacuating, receiving, or opening or closing his eyes, he always knows that only the material senses are engaged with their objects and that he is aloof from them.

There is the term nitya baddha - constantly conditioned (it doesn't mean sanatana - eternal or indefinite - it means that the concommitant results of conditioning are there for as long as one keeps on with the same attitude)- but to stay in the material world would be a theoretical proposition since there is nothing in the material world to reciprocate with the soul's constitutional position of eternity

why does is something that has no consequences required to be irradicated?

 

There is NO unjust suffering...how can you judge what is fair and unfair unless you have knowledge of all?

...if God did care he wouldn't be perfect, free, all-alluring, the origin of existence, the cause of all causes, beyond the senses, absolute bliss itself, unchanging, and always personal

God has no envy, no anger, no bias, etc...

God really has no plan, rather God indirectly acts as the cause and effect, there are infinite realities where different events happened

Cause and effect...all that has happening is an image of the past

 

Oh yeah sure, until it's happening to you, everything is bliss.

 

Lightgigantic:

Give the scriptural quote, although it won't amount to much.

If it comprises even a moment of infinity, it bears an impact.

So wait wait wait wait wait...we're not even doing anything NOW?

Yet there is no inevitability of moksha, no?

For the nature of perfect goodness is to loathe even the smallest evil.

 

I judge that he does nothing to prevent it or to stop it. It seems obvious there is unjust suffering. It seems obvious god doesn't swoop down and stop it. You're welcome to present a case if you disagree with the patently obvious.

Whether or not I'm god is irrelevant, but thanks for leaving open the possibility that I am.

You can't figure out for yourself how it would benefit amputees to have their limbs back? Arguments from stupidity are rarely compelling.

 

Proof that Jesus is the Antichrist

Medicine Woman. I'm very sorry that the post that was here was like that. I think the true nature of the statements that I posted here were false. I do now believe that Jesus does love us very much. I'm sorry about my comments. I hope don't hold it against me. I was having a real bad day.

Thanx.
Donald E. Sterling

 

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M*W: First off, who are "they?"

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M*W: Can you provide evidence for this statement?

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M*W: If this citation is found in all three documents, please provide references from the bible, the Quran, and the Hindu scriptures, etc., for this quote.

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M*W: What evidence do you have to back-up these statements? The bible is not considered to be valid proof of anything.

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M*W: Can you prove Moses existed? Can you provide archeological and historical evidence for his existence? Can you chronologically date the existence of Moses? Can you provide evidence for alien technologies? Do you really believe this crap?

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M*W: Again, who are "they?" Who are the "conquering religions?"

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M*W: Are you aware that polytheism was the ancient religion of Egypt and Mesopotamia? Monotheism appeared in Egyptian sun worship which eventually evolved into Judaism, Christianity and Islam. You reference the idea of the "trinity" without actually saying it. There are no references in the bible regarding the "trinity." The idea of the "trinity" was thought up between 325 AD and 400 AD by the early Roman Catholic church fathers. The Romans being polytheists wanted their sun god (Sun of God) to be polytheistic, ergo the creation of the "trinity."

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M*W: Dear Mr. Sterling,

Thank your for providing this bit of information. However, the burden of proof is on you to back-up your information with historical and archeological evidence. There are many didactic and evidential references available online and at bookstores and libraries everywhere. Sciforums offers the most up-to-date information on the subjects you have posted herein. I seem to believe that you posted here for information purposes only. Do you have specific questions on these subjects, or do you have any topics you would like to debate?

Welcome to sciforums.

 

LG, how are your elbows feeling now?

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http://www.jokeroo.com/funnyvideos/weird_religious_guy.html

 

I say that's all bullshit, and my statement has equal authority. If you really want to sound authentic, write it down on parchment or vellum and bury it in the desert for a thousand years or so.

 

Prince_James,

With almost 3000 posts here, I'd have thought you would know the players and their stances re theism. Sometimes I feel the need to play devils advocate in order to illuminate a point or irritate someone. Sam and I play off of each other sometimes. Sorry for any confusion.

 

Neela,

Hi and welcome to sciforums.

This implies you only want a biased view, which would be unfortunate. One of the strongest arguments for the non-existence of an omni-benevolent god is the existence of suffering. This is a fundamental paradox that theists have never been able to provide a credible answer

If we begin by assuming God exists then the claimed suffering cannot be unjust and can only be an erroneous human perception. An omni-benevolent God is incapable of ever causing real unjust suffering. So if you are suffering then it is your own fault. I.e. if your family is killed by an earthquake then that was God’s will and all will be made good in an afterlife, etc. Your perception of suffering is inappropriate because you should be thanking and trusting God for his infinite wisdom, even though you may not understand it. If you want to blame anyone then it should be Adam and Eve and not God.

If that might seem perverse, then well, that is the nature of religious belief.

If we assume that God does not exist then suffering is simply a result of the unpredictable nature of our environment and the immaturity of human kind. Which is somewhat more credible, wouldn’t you think?

 

Prince James

(insert analogy about the high school drop out perceiving the elctron and the common system trying to directly perceive th epresident)

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Thats the point - it doesn't occupy infinity - linear time is a special construct to giv e the facility of illusion for the living entity - its a prerequisite for an eternal entity to be able to entertain the notion of temporality

Yes, as far as life in the material world goes - but of course in the state of illusion its not expected that one can perceive that (if they could it wouldn't be illusion)

Its as inevitable as a person taking another breath despite trying to hold it

and relegating the experience of evil to a realm that bears no consequences doesn't fulfill this requirement to have a zero tolerance for evil?
Considering that such an arrangemnet also provides the opportunity for the living entity to possess and express free will it seems to fulfill all needs - as I said before - people do not understand what it properly means to say that god is omnipotent - you cannot determine the extent of gods potencies by an examination of the temporal world, since the entire temporal world and its necessary laws are a small fragment of god's capacity - that is why god, things related to god and the process for coming to understand god are called "transcendental"

 

spamandham

It seems obvous that people are mostly superficially religious or outright irreligious, which is what life in the material world is specifically addressing

It is relevant if you want to demand an understanding of god's purpose - and since you are stuck moaning about your problems with the universe it doesn't appear that you are a very potent god

Is having functional limbs an automatic qualification for blissful life? Is having dysfunctional limbs an automatic qualification for misery?
In case you haven't noticed, happiness and distress visits everyone equally - if you think you can alter that with material facility you are deluded.

 

there is never a time where is no bliss, as all in reality is unlimited bliss, if one experiences suffering it is because of ignorance, bad deeds, bad effect resultant of a previous cause.

 

Have you always been able to talk shit, or did it take practice?