Why do so many people believe in God.

I wrote a poem to you...

~the zodiac

12h.. we have...
because the zodiac...

4 seasons we have...
because the 4 elements in the zodiac....

day and night we have...
because yin and yang we have... in the zodiac.....

 

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No, I choose morality over logic and reason.

Whose morality?

 

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Ok, I see. While I personally do not consider that as making a substantial difference, I will accept the explanation for now.

What about Tiamat then, or Marduk?

The mother of all gods, the creator of mankind. They have long stories written about them etc, (that vastly predate biblical text). Having said that what about brahma, vishnu, odin and the others?

So too does the story of Gilgamesh. Do you believe in Gilgamesh?

 

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They make their own as they go along.

It used to be moral to marry 9 year old girls, Mohammed did it. today we cosider that pedophilia. However if one were to look at the age of consent world wide, many countries in the ME were or are around the age of 12. Here in the US we cosider that pedophilia.

Pakistan "none". Wow!!

Lots of countries have their age of consent at 12/13 years old. I'm supprised of Mexico.

http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

In the 1860s the age of consent was twelve years old. Some people such as Josephine Butler and Barbara Bodichon were concerned that young girls were being sold to brothels. They became involved in the campaign against the white slave trade and in 1875 the House of Commons agreed to raise the age of consent to thirteen
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/REage.htm

Yep looks like morality as they go!.

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Godless

 

The morality of Jesus Christ:

TEACHINGS OF THE "PRINCE OF PEACE"

LUKE
12:51-2
"Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three."
14:26
"If any man come unto me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."
19:27
"But those mine enemies which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
MATTHEW
10:34
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I come not to send peace, but a sword."
10:35-6
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."
15:4
"For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."

If that is your moral fabric, then by todays standards YOU!! are an amoral Person.
http://www.2think.org/xbible.shtml
I wish these nuts would really read the fucking bible before making a complete ass of themselves!.

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Godless

 

Okay for the sake of you, you don't need my imaginings (if ever I am fantasizing), so don't try to get a response from me inasmuch as if (LIKE THIS) I did a reply, then perhaps you could say, "this reply only comes from his imaginings". Don't waste to tolerate baseless statements (if that's what you think I am making right now). :bugeye:

 

The morality taught by Jesus Christ.

Don't you mean Paul?

 

They don't know about Paul Q.

 

So was Gilgamesh.. Next?

 

I believe because I see things happen in a way that defies probability for the better of the faithful. This includes my life and where I come from.

I believe because I see what makes a drug dealer, who is trapped in the game without a way out and gets out...and all the while he is tempted from the courthouse bathroom, to his family as he goes through the destruction his previous life has caused. Yet, he is strong and things have a way of working out for him as the judges continually reduce his sentences and changes his plea for his benefit. He is on his way out of his old life of anger, and he is a beautiful person from the change. A drug dealer, a better person than me, and I have a clean record.

When you experience God second hand enough, you believe. When you experience God first hand once, you will have faith.

 

*************
M*W: Nice story, but it doesn't work this way. It may seem to work this way for you, because you want to believe that it's true. So, you are self-hypnotized to believe you see what you see. Sure, a drug dealer who wants to quit will turn to a church. In fact, a druggie or a dealer will turn to church to make it look good to the judge. To stay out of prison, they'll even minister to other druggies and dealers. They're everywhere. But this is not why I am responding.

Experiencing God does not make one believe. First, you must define god. Then you must realize that every human being may have a differing perception of what god is to them. Believing or having faith has nothing to do with god, but everything to do with one's neediness for a higher power. This is a sad state of affairs. How sad it is to feel so lowly that a person could not even trust himself! Then, there's the whole issue of survival. The only faith required is faith in oneself.

 

Yes, the law of man is only a shadow of the law of God. I agree with you, our court system in the United States defines morality, and it is supported by us. However, the law of man does not change the law of God. In Sodom, the judges declared that it was okay for you to have sex in public (including homosexuality). How long did God put up with that?

The only thing you prove is that man wants their own morality and reject God's. Adam, from the book of Genesis, was guilty of that, just like us. This is not a shocking discovery.

My point is that God's morality (if he exists) is objective to ours (and yours and mine are relative), and we can never clearly see God's point of view on anything, but only have glimpses. So, man's morality can never be God's morality until sin is removed. Throughout history, good Christian men screwed up and were immoral, save one man named Jesus Christ. That is the main reason why God sent Jesus.

What good are Christians if they cannot always be moral, and what good is it to be one if this is true? Can you know what chocolate tastes like before tasting? God is known by experiencing him, just like a flavor. How else can you trust anyone on earth, unless trust is earned? God must gain your trust, and there is only one way to gain trust in a relationship and that's spending time with the other. But, it is illogical to want to have a relationship with someone who does not physically exist.


12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

- Jesus Christ

The beginning of my faith started as a choice to ignore the sheer fallacy of God's existence. And faith was given to me after time by seeing the workings of God. He is true where science has failed me over and over as the process of discovery sometimes makes truth into a lie.

 

When are you the expert on when, how, or why drug dealers turn to church? The fact is that most do not turn to church, even those that do want out! This was told to me by this certain drug dealer who still has acquaintances who want out of "the game." Many people want deliverance out of their sorrow or problems, but do they turn to church? Very few.

There is nothing wrong with living life the way you see. But, I am saddened as you are, that you do not wish to experience God. But, I don't blame you because belief in God is a fallacy. You have no reason to believe in God, nor do you need one.

You said experiencing God does not make one believe? So, if God came down from the clouds in glory and told you face to face, you would not believe as your body is burned with a "holy fire" as you strain against his light? I am pretty sure that experiencing God does make one believe.

 

*************
M*W: I don't claim to be an "expert" on drug dealers in church. That is not something I would want to be associated with. However, studies have been done on the Texas prison system and its lack of rehabilitation of drug dealers/users. I don't know what the prison system is like in your state, but in Texas, religion and religious paraphanelia (bibles) are readily available for inmates. There is much organization of religious groups on the inside. What else do they have to do to make the time go by faster. It's a joke in Texas prisons. Everyone has a bible given to him/her, and they read it religiously, but there is a big barrel drum trash can right outside the exit door, and as soon as they step foot out that door, the bible goes into the trash. It's been photographed and videotaped showing how the inmates toss it when they get out. There may be a slight percentage of inmates who want to go straight, and churches on the outside may offer them the strength they need to stay clean, but that's a very small percentage.

How many times have you heard a former convict preaching about his own salvation from drugs? They're everywhere.
*************
[/QUOTE]There is nothing wrong with living life the way you see. But, I am saddened as you are, that you do not wish to experience God. But, I don't blame you because belief in God is a fallacy. You have no reason to believe in God, nor do you need one.[/QUOTE]
*************
M*W: Don't be saddened on my account. I have experienced God, and I have experienced religious organization and fellowship. Once I was the pillar of my religious organization, so I've seen both sides, and I am happier in my knowledge now. Religious life is phony. God is phony. Fellowship is phony. All those truths I believed on faith to be true were phony. I think my church just wanted to see how long it could pull the wool over our eyes. I still have friends from my xian days, and they are still going through all those phony motions! I don't see where the church helped them through divorce or set their children on the right paths. They're much older now as am I, but they are still clinging to their faith that god will take care of everything. They still don't understand that there is no god to help them. It's as if they're all still waiting.
*************
[/QUOTE]You said experiencing God does not make one believe? So, if God came down from the clouds in glory and told you face to face, you would not believe as your body is burned with a "holy fire" as you strain against his light? I am pretty sure that experiencing God does make one believe.[/QUOTE]
*************
M*W: You know as well as I do that no god or any other "being," except for maybe a bird, will come down from the clouds. That "holy fire" you say that will burn me is nothing more than the heat of the sun -- the first god. That I can understand. That's where your god came from -- the sun. I don't fear the sun, I respect it, but it doesn't make me believe in a god. But to answer your question, if I did happen to see a god coming down from the clouds, I would hope someone in my family, or anyone for that matter, would call 911 and take me to a mental hospital, because that's where I'd belong. So, experiencing "god" does NOT make one believe. It was your god who made me realize it was all a farce.

 

posted by M*W
[/QUOTE]There is nothing wrong with living life the way you see. But, I am saddened as you are, that you do not wish to experience God. But, I don't blame you because belief in God is a fallacy. You have no reason to believe in God, nor do you need one.[/QUOTE]



open the quotes with [quote| use [/quote| to close them. you used [/quote| to open and to close.

 

We have every reason to fear religion, especially in the wrong hands. This is an example of bad religion. The Bible says that 5 out of 10 COMMITTED Christians will be left behind. Being religious is one thing, having faith is another. You have given an example of people using religion as a means to an end. This is not news to anyone, but merely shows the wayward heart of mankind to survive with the least amount of pain possible, at whatever cost. I disagree with Texas, Christianity is not something to be shoved down the throat or used as a get out of jail card. It should be made available, but not given to everyone. What a waste of time and money!

Medicine woman, you speak of the stained glass masquerade.

"...everbody seems so strong, I know they'll soon discover that I don't belong. So I tuck it all away, like everything's okay. If I make them all believe it, maybe i'll believe it too. So with a painted grin, I play the part again. So everyone will see me the way that I see them. Are we happy plastic people under shiny plastic steeples? With walls around our weakness and smiles to hide our pain. But, if the invitation's open to every heart that has been broken, maybe then we close the curtain on our stained glass masquerade."

Religion is a masquerade and is phony. I get sick to my stomach when I hear my pastor, but especially the pastor's wife talk sometimes. It's not real.

There is only God's truth, and everything else is commentary contributing to the disscusion.

You say you experienced God, but you know that you didn't because you know there is no God. So, how could you have experienced God in the first place? If you truly did, I don't think you would be saying that there is no God. I say this from my own perspective. I hang on a strand with my faith, but I will always leave the door open for God to surprise me and prove my doubts wrong. No one inspires me to believe more than those who became Christians later in life. I continue my race because I have experienced God in a real way that I could see his handiwork. If I had not experienced God in this way, I would be like you and say God does not exist and that the Bible is nothing more than a story.

No, I at least do not presume, so finitely, to know the laws of the universe to say for sure if any being will perform such an act in the future. So, I cannot say for sure what the future holds. By the way, if anything, I would be called a Christian, but I say that I am not one. But, you cannot say that the Christian faith stems from, or is that of the illuminatae religion. Christianity stems from the Jewish faith

You answered my question, and you say you would belong in a hospital, so answer is yes then? If you knew that you saw God to the point of delusion, and were told by others you belong in a hospital. In your mind, would you believe that you saw what you saw?

The point is that seeing is believing, regardless of if it is reality.

 

hi jayleew,


"...everbody seems so strong, I know they'll soon discover that I don't belong. So I tuck it all away, like everything's okay. If I make them all believe it, maybe i'll believe it too. So with a painted grin, I play the part again. So everyone will see me the way that I see them. Are we happy plastic people under shiny plastic steeples? With walls around our weakness and smiles to hide our pain. But, if the invitation's open to every heart that has been broken, maybe then we close the curtain on our stained glass masquerade."


could you tell me where this quote came from please?

 

The point here really should be that regardless of the reality of god, some people need the idea, some people don't. Neither should spend too much time trying to convince the other they're wrong, or we're fueling the fire that's just a difference in need.

Neither side can prove their case to the other because the sides have different needs.

Personally, I know... KNOW god is irrelevant and can give you all kinds of fancy ways to tell you why I think it so. If you choose to discard my fancy reasons, then in your book I know squat. I might even set little logical traps for you, to highlight the flaws in your fancy reasons for your faith. Does it matter? Does my trap work? It does to me, but you simply ignore it and move on with your faith. That's cool.

Respect each other, bitches. Don't argue about that which cannot be changed. If you are faithful to a deity, you have no business debating that faith with those who aren't. Stop doing it because if you're debating it, it's not faith, and if you're still faithful, you're not debating.. you're preaching. Nobody likes to be preached to, just like you probably don't like reading this. The religious mind needs a deity. The other minds don't, but they are both grounded in faith (though the latter would deny it for the most part).

Recognize.

 

This is an excerpt from a song that describes what a lot of Christians feel and do when they are at church. It is a call to Christians to wake up, get real, and stop putting God in a box. It really puts a good perspective on what your faith is in. Is it in church and religion, or in God. Being a good Christian who goes to church is worthless where the metal meets the road and we are under fire.

It is by Mark Hall and Nichole Nordeman and performed by Casting Crowns.

 

In order to "stop putting god in a box", wouldn't you have to question or reject the bible? It's a book written by men to convey "god in a box (set)", isn't it?