Why did WWII happen ?

Discussion in 'History' started by Brian Foley, May 6, 2004.

  1. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    Pre revolution Russia was literally owned by the affluent West Russia provided Western financiers and Industrialists with a region to exploit for its resources , cheap labour and investment . In 1917 revolution this lucrative market was lost . In between the wars the German industrial/financial complex , decided to take a gamble and invade Russia , this gamble they hoped would turn their fortunes around . Their plan was one of turning Russia into a colony for the personal benefit for exploitation of its industrial/financial complex . In 1933 the German industrial/financier complex installed the Nazis in power and put in place a rearmament plan . The German plan was this use Poland as a springboard for the invasion of Russia , Sept 1 Poland was invaded . However the Anglo/Franco industrial/financier complex had their own plan they also wanted Russia , their gamble was to allow Germany to invade Poland , but they would sit behind the Maginot line , letting the Germans be lulled into a false sense of security by believing that England and France were just going to sit their and not risk another WWI trench bloodfest . Then Germany would invade Russia and at an opportune time when these 2 nations were almost exhausted England and France would jump in taking the prize . The Germans saw through this plan and invaded France unexpectedly , Germany did not invade Britain because it gave Germany an excuse to Russia as to why they placing troops in Romania to forestall any British invasion of the Balkans . June 22 1941 Russia was attacked . Now the American industrial/financier complex jumped in seeing that her two main rivals England and France was finished , they saw an opportunity to gain control of Western Europe . Dec 11 1941 Germany declared war on America , America instituted the lend lease on England , bankrupting this country and turning itself into a colony of American finance . US airpower turned Germany to dust while the armies of Germany were cannibalized in Russia at Yalta America allowed Russia Eastern Europe while America secured the Affluent West .
     
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  3. Fenris Wolf Banned Banned

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    Punctuation, laddie. Did they teach you nothing in school, Or is this the result of a small dose of goey?
    Some sort of question or point at the end would also be useful.
     
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  5. Spyke Registered Senior Member

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    Lots of fantasy in that essay.
     
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  7. path Militant wiseguy Registered Senior Member

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    And to think I wasted all that time and money on books about WWII

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  8. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Greed brought about the war. Not allowing Germany or Japan to sell their goods to forigen nations caused those nations to take drastic actions to let them sell their wares overseas as they wanted.
     
  9. Overdose From the steppes of Mongolia Registered Senior Member

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    One night Hitler's father said to his wife "Honey it is time to make a child" That's how everything started

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    WW 2 happened because of WW 1 and the Versailles agreement. The other reason for WW2 was democracy. The Germans tried democracy after they were defeated in the WW1 but the first years of democracy brought only high unemployment, inflation and unhappiness. Germans thought that democracy was the key problem and looked for a king again. A king who can rule them again.. And that King was Hitler.

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  10. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    I feel a conspiracy theory in the making...
     
  11. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    The Question was "Why did WWII happen ? " and my thread was an explanation of my question .
     
  12. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    Such as ? .... please elaborate .
     
  13. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    You are getting it all wars are fought over commercial markets hence my post .
     
  14. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    A war fought for Democracy ! Yeah and santa Claus comes around once a year

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  15. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    I think you misunderstand. Hitler, who started WW2, was put in power by a people who felt that democracy was not working.
     
  16. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    No I think you mis-understand Hitler never was voted into power by the German people in any election he was installed by Hindenburg . The Nazi party never had more than 27% of the vote in Germany . The ruling class installed Hitler to forestall an inevitable socialist govt which would odf nationalized their interests .
     
  17. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    It's true that Hitler was not elected Chancellor by the people. He did have more than 27% of the vote though.

    March 13, 1932 election results:
    Hindenburg: 49.6%
    Hitler: 30.1%
    Thaelmann: 13.2%
    Duesterberg: 6.8%

    Since Hindenburg didn't have the absolute majority required, another election was held 1 month later.

    April 10, 1932
    Hindenburg: 53%
    Hitler: 38%
    Thaelmann: 10.2%
    (Duesterberg dropped out and gave the nationalist vote to Hitler.)

    But, that's nitpicking. Hitler was eventually placed into power by Hindenburg.

    One can also look at the Reichstag elections. In the last free election held during Hitler's life, on March 5, 1933. The results were:

    National Socialist: 43.9%
    Social Democratic: 18.3%
    Communist: 12.3%
    Center: 11.7%
    Nationalist: 8.0%
    Bavarian People's: 2.7%
    Other parties: 3.8%

    The National Socialist and the Nationalist parties both wanted a totalitarian system. The Nazis wanted Hitler as the Leader, the Nationalists wanted a return to the Hohenzollern monarchy. Totalled they come up to 51.9% of the vote. But, again that's nitpicking.

    I guess where the people really spoke up about what they wanted as a government was when the enabling act was passed on March 23, 1933. Before this vote, Hitler of course had whipped the country into a communist terror with the reichstag fire and arrested the communist reichstag members. That's 81 votes that wouldn't count. He also arrested a few Social Democrats. Both of which were illegal. But the vote came out 441 for, 84 (all social democrats) against. The people had spoken (except for the commies). Fascism was in. Hitler used guile and trickery to get this vote, but that's all fair game in a democracy.

    It is interesting to note that Hindenburg expected Hitler to reinstate the monarchy after his death. Hitler decided that was not the way he wanted to go. I'd be willing to bet, that if an election were held to reinstate the monarchy at the time, the overwhelming majority of Germans would have voted to reinstate. They had been raised on stories of the glorious old days. It was their bread and butter. (or schnitzel and saurkraut) It took the utter defeat at the end of the war to cure them of this.
     
  18. Spyke Registered Senior Member

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    Western financiers did not own czarist Russia. Czarist Russia was pretty much closed off to the West. Most financiers in the West in the late 19th century/early 20th century were investing large amounts of money in the rapidly expanding western United States, or in colonies.

    Then why did Britain and France declare war on Germany when it invaded Poland, and Britain rush an expeditionary force to France? If the idea was just to 'sit behind the Maginot Line', why declare war and force Germany to react to it?

    There was no Anglo/French plan for Germany to 'see through'. Britain and France declared war on Germany following its invasion of Poland, as they warned Germany they would, almost 2 years before the Germans invaded Russia. Warning Germany you will declare war hardly sounds like a plan to just sit back and let Germany and Russia beat each other up, especially since those two nations hadn't even come to blows yet. Your argument makes no sense.

    So then, why didn't the American industrial/financier complex gain control of Europe?

    Lend lease was in place several months before 11 December 1941, and it neither bankrupted Britain, nor did it turn it into a colony of American financiers. Lend Lease was more like a giveaway program. Initially the US gave 50 WW1 destroyers to Britain in exchange for bases, later the program gave war materials to Britain, Russia, China, and a few others, with Britain getting about 60%. Lend Lease totals were around $50 billion, of which about 20% wqas ever paid back. If Britain was bankrupted it was from fighting a 6 year war, not from Lend Lease.

    And? Are you saying the industrial/financial complex in America dictated this?
     
  19. Undecided Banned Banned

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    There were very large amounts of western investment in Russia prior to 1914. The French had the most vested in Russia at the time, as did Germany. The Americans were sucking up much of the European investment, but that doesn't nullify the amount of money the West lost in Russia. The Soviets rejected to pay the massive loans that were taken out, and billions of dollars worth of investments in Russia were gone, I believe that France had about $2 billion invested in Russia at the time. (Billions today mean possibly hundreds of billions in today's money?). Russia was the China of her day essentially...and to lose that was quite a blow to the world economy.
     
  20. Spyke Registered Senior Member

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    That's true. The French had virtually all of the Western investments in Russia. US investors were mainly investing in its own West, and in Latin America and after the turn of the turn of the century, in Asia. The bulk of Britain's money was in Asia, Africa and Latin America. The French loaned money to the czar for his miliatry and the railroads. But even so, I remember reading an article in the last couple of years where APFER, the French stockholders association had recently sued the Russian government trying to recover the money it said was owed it when the Bolsheviks forfeited on the debt in 1917. The figure was roughly $3 billion. Even if that's not an inflated figure, the amount we're talking about are hardly enough to make the claim that...

    Certainly the czar was using France to help modernize, but the West did not own czarist Russia.
     
  21. Undecided Banned Banned

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    The French had virtually all of the Western investments in Russia.

    I wouldn't characterize it to that level, but the French did have a lot. I have some stats which are almost impossible to find on the net:

    FDI in Russia in 1914:

    France: $2.4b
    Germany: $400m
    UK: $550m


    Russia had $500m invested overseas, Russia's industrialization was financed with Western capital, and thus the West essentially did own Russian industry. Russian GDP in 1913 was $232b compared to $237b of Germany concurrently. Russia was the world's third largest economy behind the US and Germany the UK being fourth. The loss of that much capital to the capitalist economy obviously was going to make many people angry, but I don't think to the point of war. Then we forget the loans given to Russia during the war which were not repaid.

    West did not own czarist Russia.

    In which sense? That's the question...
     
  22. Lemming3k Insanity Gone Mad Registered Senior Member

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    It wasnt particularly unexpected, after all they did sign a pact with russia over poland so they werent going to break that until france was out of the way.
     
  23. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    Yes they did the Nobel Family of Sweden owned the caucusus oil industry , German and British industrial interests controlled the Ukrainian coal/iron fields . French finance literally kept Czarist Russia afloat in other words it was a goldmine for the affluent Western European interests .
    Britain and France were the main continental powers they always saw Germany as the threat these 2 nations were just going through the motions . It would of looked suspicious if these 2 nations did nothing . Why didnt France and Britain invade Germany straight away as well they could of ? Why was no aid sent to Poland ? Why was the Anglo/Franco military expedition too Norway halfhearted ? They really believed Germany wouldnt risk an assault on the formidable Maginot line and risk a WWI bloodfest thats why . So they said well we will sit back give the Germans the impression we wont do anything , let them invade russia and at some opportune time we will jump in .
    If the British and French which were at that time the worlds 2 eminent military/industrial powers said nothing it would of came off as strange . Why did they allow Germany to install such a militant govt ? Why was Germany allowed to Re-arm ? Why didnt they attack Germany when they entered the Saar region ? When Germany invaded Austria ? Invaded Czechoslovakia ? Get real this is carte blanche .
    They did the US by denying under the Yalta agreement affluent industrialized Western Europe its traditional backyard of investment Eastern Europe then West Europe became reliant on the US market . Have you noticed since 1989 with the collapse of the Eastern Bloc that now Western Europe has the Eastern part back it is now eclipsing America as the premier world economic power .
    Lend lease only became available only when Britain had no other way of paying for US goods as all her dollar , gold reserves and other assets were sold to the US at a considerable loss . So in order to pay for lend lease Britain had to borrow from the US to pay for it Britain ended the war owing the US $21,358 million .
    Thats my theory I have put forward and I think it stands up to scrutiny .
     

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