Why are you Pro-Choice.

And "keep the right wing from controlling our lives."

 

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ummm you DO know the right wing is pro self?

its the side that is more personal freedom at the expence of soiciaty

(ie the idiocy about random breath testing being police harassment)

 

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Certainly that would happen if push came to shove. The public often makes those kinds of choices.

Mine was “the best choice for society all things considered.”

 

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A price to be paid for your version of morality

Anyone who is against abortion, how much percentage-wise are you willing to pay in higher taxes in return for a ban on abortion? If abortion is illegal but not for rape, then we’ll have thousands more rape cases each year to be investigated by law enforcement. Thousands of kids starting life lousy and to be subsidized by you the taxpayer. Thousands of women who illegally aborted to be tried and imprisoned and their public education wasted and no longer a benefit to the economy. That’s just the beginning, and it adds up to a lot of money out of everyone’s pocket.

So, what are you willing to pay?

 

Re: A price to be paid for your version of morality

Correct. I would have made the point earlier but I don't care for the whole "abortion for legal for rape victims" discussion. It should be legal for all.

There will be more and more women claiming they had been raped when they were not if it is only legal for rape victims.

 

maybe we should forget the "drug war" and move the narks over to the rape squad?

 

Yep. Let me emphasize that my question is not rhetorical. My version of morality is worth money to me. For a ban on abortion and its related problems resolved to my satisfaction I’d pay 10% more.

 

i would pay whatever i had to in order to satisfy my ethics

money means very little to me (and no thats NOT because im ritch, in fact im quite poor at the moment

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)

 

I wonder how many criminals were raised in unhappy homes where they were unwanted.

I also wonder how much we could save if we get the message out there about safe sex, and making sure people could easy, free access to birth control.

 

you dont have that?

every uni and tafe here you can get free condoms, social health heeps of places

about crime you cant stop it by abortion

i have a friend who lives in a home where his father trys to kill him but hes not bad (i know that for a FACT)

 

yeah we have it here but I am not sure what they have in the states. I keep getting reminded by a friend telling me last year that his sex ed class at high school, in Ohio, he was taught oral sex is safe and cannot transmit HIV. So I have no idea what sort of crap is taught there.

Asgaurd, I wonder how many children born into unhappy homes where they are unwanted grow up to take that aggression out on their own children and partner. How many turn to crime because of their family life. So if we make abortion illegal for anyone who seeks it, what impact will such family life have on society?

Not only that, but this planet is already extremely over populated, far over that of which it can sustain life.

 

in anser to population thing are you against IVF?

for the rest maybe they should be harder on who can KEEP a child rather than saying that familys who dont want a child will abort

that doesnt take into acount child abuse by the father OR mother latter on ect

 

His father must be fairly inept then, if he hasn't succeeded by now.

 

A person who takes it upon him or herself to prescribe how others should dispose of their own lives - and who seeks to condemn them by law, i.e., by force, to the drudgery of an unchosen, lifelong servitude (which, more often than not, is beyond their economic means or capacity) - such a person has NO right to pose as a defender of rights. A person with so little concern or respect for the rights of the individual, cannot and will not be a champion of freedom or of capitalism.
— Ayn Rand

 

Oh and furthermore:

"Responsible parenthood involves decades devoted to the child's proper nurture. To sentence a woman to bear a child against her will is an unspeakable violation of her rights: her right to liberty (to the functions of her body), her right to the pursuit of happiness, and, sometimes, her right to life itself, even as a serf. Such a sentence represents the sacrifice of the actual to the potential, of a real human being to a piece of protoplasm, which has no life in the human sense of the term. It is sheer perversion of language for people who demand this sacrifice to call themselves 'right-to-lifers.' "

— Leonard Peikoff

 

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

she made the choice, why should sociaty care more about her than the child who DIDNT make a choice?

 

Did you know that there are some people who oppose and even want to outlaw birth control, especially Catholics and some fundamentalists? Outlawing abortion will only give them hope for their most evil cause.

 

HarmonyStar: Apparently Ayn Rand didn’t realize that every member of the public takes it upon him or herself to prescribe how others should dispose of their own lives, when the public makes and enforces laws.

 

I am pro choice because I do not believe that someone has the right to unconditional life if they can live only at the expense of someone else's body, as is the case of a fetus and a pregnant woman. A woman's right to control over her body is paramount to a fetus's right to exist.

That being said, I get really tired of listening to the flawed, illogical arguments that are commonly given by both sides of the debate. Here are some of the most annoying:

"Abortion should be outlawed because a fetus is a person."
How do you define 'person?' At what point does the fetus become a person? Is a single cell a person? Four cells? Also, this argument assumes that people have an unconditional right to life, which they don't.

"Abortion should be outlawed because the bible claims that fetuses (feti?) are people."
A more complete version of the previous argument. Check again. The bible does not say this anywhere. There are passages in the bible from which this could be inferred, but it is certainly nor clear-cut. For most of the church's history abortion was not considered immoral and a fetus was not considered a person. Christianity's 'pro life' stance is a recent development. In any event, it doesn’t really matter since we (in the united states and most other countries) live in a secular democracy.

Abortion should be outlawed because you might be killing the next (pick your favorite famous person)
True, but you might also be killing the next evil dictator or notorious criminal. There is no way to tell and each is equally likely.

Abortion should be outlawed because there are many families who want to adopt children.
This is not entirely accurate. There are many families who want to adopt healthy white children. If a child has some sort of health problem or is a member of an ethnic minority, it is unlikely that they will be adopted before they become adults. In any case, surely a woman could not be expected to give birth for the convenience of someone who is incapable of having their own child.

"Abortion should be allowed because the world is overpopulated."
The problem isn't that the world is overpopulated, it's that people can't manage their resources properly. This is not an argument in for abortion, it's an argument for better resource management. Note also that if this argument were valid it could just as easily be applied to justify the killing of living adults.

"Abortion should be allowed because it prevents children from being born into abusive homes."
Again, this argument could just as easily be applied to justify killing children who are already living in an abusive home. In fact, it would be more applicable, since there would be certainty that the child is living in an abusing environment rather than a mere possibility.

"Abortion should be allowed because if it is outlawed women will turn to 'back ally' abortion clinics where conditions will not be as safe."
This argument does not address the moral acceptability of abortion. Few people would accept the argument that 'bank robbery should not be outlawed because it would make bank-robbing much more dangerous to the robber.'

"It's a slippery slope; if you outlaw abortion, soon the religious nuts will be herding atheists into concentration camps."
The slippery slope argument is considered to be a logical fallacy. It is possible to outlaw abortion without restricting other freedoms. There is no way to show that theocratic domination in an inevitable (or even likely) consequence of outlawing abortion.

 

Abortion is morally and ethically wrong 100%, but it remain legal for the reasons I posted.