Who killed the Electric Car?

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by moementum7, Aug 10, 2006.

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  1. apeweek Registered Member

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    You know, I agree with you, it doesn't appeal to me much either.

    If I were buying tomorrow, I'd buy a vehicle conversion. This guy, for instance, takes old cars with good bodies (which I'm sure he gets for next to nothing), rips out the ICE and electrifies them for very reasonable prices:

    http://grassrootsev.com/convert.htm

    The drawback is the old battery technology. It will still be a couple more years for newer tech batteries to become widely available at the hobbyist level.
     
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  3. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    I bought an 85Ah battery only six weeks ago, and 115Ah are easily available.
     
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  5. apeweek Registered Member

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    Where did you buy an 85ah NIMH battery?
     
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  7. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    {picture of horse}

    Not only is Brazil far ahead of US in use of alcohol fuel but also in the use of these "direct grass-powered" transport systems. (As sugar cane is a grass, our alcohol powered cars are "indirect grass-powered" transport systems.)

    Both direct and indirect systems are widely used in all but the largest cities. Even there, a few of the direct-powered version still circulate.
     
  8. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    6,221
    The Toyota Prius, Ford Escape, Honda Civic hybrid, and Honda Insight are all parallel hybrids.

    http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/articles/45188/article.html
    Here's another page for you:
    http://www.weather.com/activities/driving/greenvehicle/hevhow.html
    Here is some information on how the drive trains of the Prius and Insight work to allow the motor and engine to power the car in parallel.
    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car1.htm
     
  9. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    So far they don't seem to have any commercial application up and running. Have they partnered with any auto company?
     
  10. apeweek Registered Member

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    Well, it appears that Electro Energy is partnering with Altair Nanotechnology - developer of an advanced nonotechnology-based version of the li-ion battery.

    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/03/altairnano_and_.html
    http://www.altairnano.com/

    In turn, Altair Nano is partnering with Phoenix Motorcars to build vehicles.

    http://blog.wired.com/cars/index.blog?entry_id=1515444
    http://phoenixmotorcars.com
     
  11. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Google 'leisure battery' and you'll find many and various stockists of large capacity batteries. They are used for powering appliances in motorhomes, RV's and boats.

    I'm not sure what current they can consistently sustain, but I'm sure the numbers are out there somewhere.
     
  12. apeweek Registered Member

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    19
    Of course large capacity batteries are on the market. I drive an EV with 18 of them. (Lead-acid.)

    The issue is high-AH NIMH batteries, which Cobasys doesn't allow to be sold for EV use. Some large NIMH batteries are available, and are used in hybrids. But Cobasys won't allow any licensee to cut a deal with an EV manufacturer for NIMHs.
     
  13. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Ah, the paragraph where you said the large capacity batteries for the Rav4 had disappeared, you didn't specify they were NIMH.

    You can buy 25Ah NIMH though, but afaik the chemistry of NIMH makes it hard to make them any bigger, and they don't work well in parallel, plus large arrays of them require very careful charging, so they are a pain the arse.

    LiPo might be the future, ...
     
  14. apeweek Registered Member

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    Well, it's not the chemistry of NIMH that limits battery size; it's the patent holders. Some of the existing RAV4 EVs on the road have NIMH battery packs with over 100,000 miles already - so clearly the batteries work fine, and a few high-AH NIMHS are still made for hybrids.

    LiPo has its own issues; there is no absolutely perfect battery. But I agree that lithium batteries and supercapacitors are the place to look now.
     
  15. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    5,502
    These batteries that aren't allowed to be sold for use in electric cars, can any citizen buy them? They can't control what a private citizen does with his 110 amp-hour battery, I don't think anyway.
     
  16. apeweek Registered Member

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    Not cost-effective. You could possibly get appropriate NIMHs from a car dealership, by posing as a hybrid owner. But expect the price to be outrageous, especially if you were able to buy enough of them to power an EV.

    The whole idea behind advanced battery technologies is to be able to increase your driving range at an affordable price. If I spend more on batteries than I would on 20 years worth of gasoline, there's not much point.
     
  17. apeweek Registered Member

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    19
    Interesting development this week, here's a new website - this is evidently another Chinese EV manufacturer (the poorly constructed English on the site is the giveaway) offering electric vehicles AND serial hybrids for sale. He has several models, all of which do freeway speeds, have ranges over 100 miles, and have price tags well under $10,000. In hybrid mode, they have ranges closer to 300 miles.

    http://www.fevehicle.com/services.html

    Reading the website, he seems to believe he will have no problem meeting certification to run on US roads (I wish I was as optimistic.)

    From the battery pictures I see, he appears to be running the cars on the same Chinese 'Thunder Sky' lithium batteries we've talked about here before.

    I know the reaction this will get from some of us here, but if nothing else, this should at least demonstrate that electric vehicles can indeed be made at affordable prices.
     
  18. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    What are those^^^ cars...pure electrics, hybrids?
    Couldn't make heads or tails out of the text.

    Do they have a US distributor?
     
  19. apeweek Registered Member

    Messages:
    19
    They are EVs, with a generator option (which would make them serial hybrids.)

    Unlike the present crop of hybrids some of us drive, the electric drive is primary. The optional gas engine just charges the batteries. Since it's optional, it's probably removable, for when you don't need it.

    As to the low prices, I think these are very simple EVs, no regenerative braking, for instance. Also, I was wrong about the Li-Ion batteries, they apparently use lead-acid batteries.

    As to distribution, my guess is he's fishing for someone to help him sell cars here.

    Someone should tell him to hire copywriters and web designers too.
     
  20. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Right! Shouldn't be too hard to find ONE person who can type out their specs in decent english.

    Removable gas generators sound like a great idea!
     
  21. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    6,865
    You heard it here first people!

    We were talking about this a few months ago, no? And apparently GM was listening!

    They have just unveiled their concept for the most sensible of all hybrid designs - a 'series hybrid' with a small gas engine generating electricity at an optimal rpm for re-charging the battery.
    http://www.gizmag.com/go/6693/1/
     
  22. Facial Valued Senior Member

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    2,217
    How very, very interesting! Corporations are amusing to watch. GM seems delighted about 1996... all of a sudden.
     
  23. ScottMana Registered Senior Member

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    Lets get those cars into people's hands again

    The US has the ability to support 87% of the current popultion possessing an electric car.

    It funny that that it would be stated that the electric car can not support all the needs of people with examples like "you can't drive from one city to another". How many people drive between cities? Its not that I don't think there are plenty of them, its that most don't.

    The demand for these cars are high! With so much demand its like a vacuum. Their is little the car companies need to do to sell them. So we know right there that someone has to be stopping them. You have all this "drive" or people going out of their way to get them, that it creates something like a huge wave. So it takes something rather powerful to stand in front of that wave and take the full brunt of the force and win.

    IMO these cars are not important. We could all be doing alot more important things then worring about electric cars. But because someone is working so hard to keep these from getting into consumer hands we have to stop for a moment and demand that this get put right. I could care less about someone making alot of money selling "power" to the world. But when that means that lives on this planet are in danger because of it, we need a new source of power.

    Its no wounder realy big oil guys live in a nuclear fallout bunkers. They are afraid of the world's population. I have no intention of harming anyone, but deep down these guys knows that they deserve the kind of rath that only a nuclear bunker can protect them from. This is not a treat, just an observation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2007
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