Ah, a "The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe" Christian. Now there is a concept I agree with. Providing, of course, God exists. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ~Raithere
What do you mean by "The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe" Christian? I am not sure I understand that. By the way I am not Christian. My understanding from your previous post is you are saying that people can follow the wrong thing and end up dead. I thought of the people who died in those cult mass suicide thinking they will go to heaven. I think they will go to heaven if they have done enough merits in their lives. (But not because they killed themselves). Ie the sheep who are lemmings in disguise who followed good will still go to heaven. Perhaps you can explain your lion thing to me.
I swear I'm not trying to be patronizing but Pammy, that is straight up cute. I'm all "awwwwe". hehe.
The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe is a book.. you can look it up.... I'm sorry, I didn't mean to insult you... please pardon.
I didn't feel insulted because English is not my native language anyway so I have little knowledge about English stories that you guys grow up with. Ok I'll look up that book. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Thanks. I did a google on "Chronicles of Narnia, by C.S. Lewis" and the very first link is " http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Andes/6712/ ". I still dont see what a "The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe" Christian is. for a start I don't know Christains believe animals talk.. or do they? . Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
A bit presumptuous of me, I agree. The concept is one I ran into long ago when I first read the Narnia series; by CS Lewis (The first book is "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardorbe"). One paragraph, in particular, struck me as true of any worthy God: "... But I said, Alas, Lord, I am no son of thine but the servant of Tash. He answered, Child, all the service thou hast done to Tash, I account as service done to me. Then by reasons of my great desire for wisdom and understanding, I overcame my fear and questioned the Glorious One and said, Lord, is it then true, as the Ape said, that thou and Tash are one? The Lion growled so that the earth shook (but his wrath was not against me) and said, It is false. Not because he and I are one, but because we are opposites, I take to me the services which thou hast done to him. For I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath's sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do a cruelty in my name, then, though he says the name Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted. Dost thou understand, Child? I said, Lord, thou knowest how much I understand. But I said also (for the truth constrained me), Yet I have been seeking Tash all my days. Beloved, said the Glorious One, unless thy desire had been for me thou wouldst not have sought so long and so truly. For all find what they truly seek." ~Raithere (edited to add emphasis)
I hope I understand it correctly (or I'll really have start digging a hole to hide this time) that it says if a person do good it dosen't matter who he/she worship because it will go to the right place. If so, I agree with it totally. Thanks for finding the text Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Im not going to heaven,ive broken the "thou shalt not kill" commandment too many times, ive killed insects,but also ive killed viruses cos when ive had flu and colds my body killed loads of them off,i probably had a whole civilisation growing in my nose but i sneezed em out and they died, aaaarrrrgggh eternal hell and damnation!
I don't believe in organized religions. If heaven exists, all "good "people will end up there, whether they're Christians, Muslims or whatever. There is an Hindu parable of sorts that depicts God at the summit of a mountain and the world's religions spread around the foothills. The followers ascend the mountain to reach God and as they get closer to God, they get closer to one another. I would add the following: We cannot get closer to God or to each other if we believe that we are the only ones on the mountain, or if we believe that we own the mountain, or if we are busy trying to throw everyone else off the mountain. I am still curious as to what most people define as "heaven".
C. S. Lewis and a thread about heaven and hell and no one mentioned his book "The Great Divorce". A very interesting story about heaven and hell and a bus driver.
I brought up an arguement similar to this at www.crosswalk.com, and they deleted it. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Fundamentalists often cite a verse in Romans (don't remember which one) as evidence that they will be saved by faith alone, but if you read the Gospels Jesus clearly does not give this message. As for non-Christians entering the Christian heaven I've debated this topic much with several people. Most Protestant Churches say they cannot, the Catholic Church says they can. Fundies cite Jesus saying "none shall enter the kingdom except through me" for their beliefs. Of course this could be interpreted to mean that people can only enter heaven because of Christ's death and resurrection, and one does not necessarily have to believe to enter. But I don't know, and since most of you are atheists this does not really mean anything to you, but it's some food for thought. I heard a Catholic theologian say that people are sent to hell for not following their conscience. So if Hitler really thought what he was doing was right he will not go to hell. Hitler was also Catholic, and some fundies such as Disciple of Jesus do not think Catholics are Christians, so Hitler might not make it in because of his faith after all. As you can see all that I have said is starting to go around in circles, so I'll stop, for now.
This sounds fun. I have often wondered if I would make it into heaven, but as I think about it, I don't think I will. I have heard that to be saved (great word isn't it. I imagine a little action figure--myself--suddenly being held up at the store and just as I get shot, the Deus ex Machina Jesus comes in to save the day), one must merely believe in Jesus (sayith the newest brand of nondenominational Christians) and by doing so, all of their sins will be forgiven. And no matter what they do after that, believing in Jesus and asking for forgiveness (saying oops, sorry Jesus) will make it awww better. Hmmm...I shall describe my thoughts on this one: Horse Shit! Next one. Being raised a strict Roman Catholic, I was taught that I had to believe in God and some other stuff. I say and some other stuff because--as was implied heavily in my childhood at Sunday school--the main topics of discussion were not about how to get to Heaven. They told us about the Bible and Hell and how we should try to be good and Hell and what Jesus did and Hell and how we should try to be like Jesus and Hell and Easter. I don't like this one so much either. Catholics don't tend to think of it as getting into Heaven, rather staying out of Hell. And lastly, the simple Morman thing: believe in God and Jesus and do good things. That's so nice...Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! But not quite my take on it. I have a problem with the idea that God would just kill off the people he made because they didn't belive fully in him. I don't know, he is supposed to be a loving, yet vengeful and jealous God? How does that work..at all? Jesus loves us all, but he is willing to kill the vast majority to make the true believers feel welcome in Heaven? I don't know. I don't think I will go to Heaven even though I believe in God (not in accordance to any religion) and Jesus (that he existed and was one Heaven of a guyPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ) and try to do good things by being selfless. The problem is I do so much bad to get things done, that even thought I don't hurt people very often, I have broken more than a few commandments and know that no matter how hard I don't want to, I will always want to achieve my goal more. As for Adam's original question of will he go to Hell for simply not believing--I think he just might because if he is being a good person, then God has tried to convince him that He truly does exist. I don't know the methods for God's work, but I truly think that He will try to get His point across. In the mean time, keep being as good as you can, and maybe He will overlook the fact that you had trouble believing in this stupid world where it is so difficult to get a straight answer. Personally, I don't think there is a Heaven to get to. Think about this: if God wanted to give you the best thing He had in His arsenal, wouldn't he give you a choice of doing what you wanted?
Qiothus II Why don't you think that God would forgive you of all of your sins when you are at deaths door step? I have two children and no matter what they could possibly ever do if they came to me and asked me to forgive them I would. I love my kids so much yet I believe that God loves each of us much more than that. So according to that belief it would only make sense that she would forgive me any time any where.
Oh Circe, you island temptress, that was beautiful Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Heaven and Hell. Hmmm. Heaven is where they sit on clouds, dressed in white, with blonde hair, and white skin, and play golden harps all day long... Naw. That sounds like many people's idea of a hell, methinks. I think of heaven as this indescribable (ha ha, as I set out to describe it) place/state of being wherein people are at complete fulfillment, at complete peace, have such pleasure in the presence of god (a being so fathomless, so like the beauty of nature to the nth degree) that you feel and think all positive things at the same time. I'm trying to describe the indescribable, but I think I am failing miserably Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Hell is for people who have given over to the hatred inside and let themselves hurt others, I guess. If there is a hell, I think it would be like death (nothingness or perhaps absence of god), or experiencing the pains you inflicted on others over and over. Aaaa, forget it. I don't like to think about hell. It isn't very nice. I guess I'm not a very good "christian" because I don't like thinking and talking and obsessing on hell and evil. Therefore, I don't believe in the fundie attitude that those who try to "love thy neighbour as themselves" without saying the magic words of fundie-christiandom automatically go to hell.
