I am new to this forum and I am interested in hearing from all of you. This being close to Christmas, I have the following questions. Do you think Jesus existed? and who do you think Jesus was?
Hi! Welcome to the forum. I believe that Jesus did indeed exist, and that he was the Son of God, as one puts it.
I believe Jesus existed. Apart from that, I become less sure. Books written 50 years after the fact are tinged.
He existed and was only a man sent by God, since he was sent and close to God by the old expression he was "son of God"- not to be translated literally like Christians do as they don't like to understand anything in context except whatever they want to believe. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! By the way greek doesn't have any distinction between 'small' or 'capital' letters. So when they try to tell you 'no no, its the Son of God not son of God' then you know they're making a non-argument Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Peace be unto you Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I have no way of knowing for sure. But it seems likely that somebody called 'Jesus' lived in the Galilee/Judea area in the first decades CE. I believe that the ancient 'pagans' typically accepted his existence and I don't really have any reason to doubt it. I'm not sure what kind of answer you are seeking with that one. Historians probably won't ever be able to penetrate to the real historical Jesus. The problem is that all of our information about Jesus comes from the early Christian movement. Contemporary non-Christian writers are silent. The 'gospel' accounts seem intended to convey a religious message to the early Christian congregations, as opposed to presenting an objective factual account of what really happened. The gospels seem to be more interested in portraying Jesus fulfilling what many Jews believed to be messianic prophecies than they are in telling us about things like Jesus' life prior to the ministry of his last couple of years. The man appears to be almost lost in the hagiography. If I had to outline my own impression of Jesus, it would be that he was 100% human, no more divine than anyone else and a Jew of his time. He was apparently a minor messianic pretender who may or may not have preached a new and distinctive version of Jewish messianism. There was apparently a small but highly devoted circle of people around him. He appeared in Jerusalem, attracted some interest from the crowds, created a disturbance at the temple, was arrested and subsequently executed. His little circle of followers wavered but didn't break up. Some claimed to have had visions of him after his death. At some point somebody started preaching Jesus as if he was a traditional dying-and-arisen fertility god, a source of salvation and eternal life to those who somehow participated in his sacrificial death and resurrection. And Christianity was off and running, the most accessible, the most aggressively preached and ultimately the most successful of the ancient mysteries.
“I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.” ( Revelations 1:18 ) http://100prophecies.org/loj7.htm people didn't just "have visions" of him after the resurrection; many people actually saw him, talked with him, ate with him. it doesn't seem as if people now, like myself, would be able to know him like we do if he wasn't resurrected. jesus was born without a condition called "sin", which is what causes us to suffer and die. he lived a life of temptation and sacrifice according to this world, in communion with god. that's why he has the keys to hell and death. he knows. he IS the key. that's why he is said to be born a king, and the son of god, because he was born without sin, and so it is inherent in him. he is the human embodiment of god. because he is the answer, and we can be born again through him, we too can become like him, without sin and living in communion with god and therefore each other. those who do are called "the church" and the "bride of christ". this communion is symbolized by the wedding ceremony which signifies we become one, and ritualistically displayed in the communion ceremony, where representations of christ's body and blood are ingested, signifying the adoption of this new sinless existence. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfW4CkYrjXs Unified diversity Functioning as one body Every part encouraged by the other No one independent of another You're irreplaceable, indispensable You're incredible Incredible Beautiful bride Body of Christ One flesh abiding Strong and unifying Fighting ends in forgiveness Unite and fight all division Beautiful bride Strengthen your arms now Train your fingers for battle Urgency's here now Train your fingers for battle Fighting this violence With your feet wrapped in peace Sad tears and silence Now screams of joy Victory Beautiful bride Body of Christ One flesh abiding Strong and unifying Fighting ends in forgiveness Unite and fight all division Beautiful bride Beautiful bride Body of Christ One flesh abiding Strong and unifying We're not gonna fall and forget How far You went to pick us up If one part's hurt the whole body's sick If one part mourns we all mourn with Him Rejoice, and we'll sing with you Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah Beautiful bride Body of Christ One flesh abiding Strong and unifying Fighting ends in forgiveness Unite and fight all division Beautiful bride
listen to this song people... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkLxBT_KxCk lyrics... Now! Peel the skin back from the flesh. Steal the flesh back from the starving static minds. From nature we must stray, to clarity we'll climb. Deadly impulse seems so natural, just look beyond it and we'll find a brand new evolution. Here begins a brand new line. And in the distance there's a gathering, that no longer seems so far away. Pushed to our knees so let us pray, and all together we'll bring the real rain. Watch all that's wasted wash away, so let it come. Our will be done. Stature retrieved, regain our form. Break free from instinct that's left us all confined. From nature we must stray to clarity we'll climb. Tradition ingrained, now impermissible. Now comes a call for all to find a brand new evolution. Here begins a brand new line. I can't help but fear, look to my species and tremble, to think that God is just... And in the distance there's a gathering that no longer seems so far away. YES! god i love that song! it's like great sex. we're bringing it people. we're bringing it. so it wouldn't kill you to figure out, what you need to get over, in order to truly love people all the time. and i would say "good luck", but i don't believe in luck.
I think he existed. I think he was a revolutionary thinker. He brought about change and was executed for his "crimes". His ideas were revolutionary and powerful enough to spark a movement, which led to what we now know as christianity. Whether he was divinely sent or "The Son of God" to me is debatable and I wont know until death. I try not to even give it much thought. I think he had wonderful ideas and did many great things. And I think its a good idea to live by his examples. But Jesus himself said not to worship him as he is only a man.
Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Jesus Rivera, he lives down the street from me, nice guy it seems.
There is one credible extrabiblical reference to Jesus. Google "Josephus" for more info. On the basis of that, I think there was such a person.
I don't know if Jesus existed, but if he did he was a socialist and modern day Christians would hate Jesus. They would call him a goddamn libertard socialist and anything Jesus said would be seen as "leftist propaganda." Yessir, Jesus would probably be persecuted a second time I reckon.
************ M*W: Jesus is a myth. It's all a myth. The good folks down at the local temple had been waiting for their messiah to come, so it was more simple and easy to just create the idea of the messiah right there in the first century AD. Then the catholic church created christianity from the myth. Myth begets myth. Also, Josephus may have played a part in the ruse to end all ruses. I say stop the guilt train and just enjoy opening your presents, cause that's what it's all about anyway.
you're a myth. who's josephus? is that hank williams jr? oh no, that's bocephus...Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
that's a good comment and insightful. yes, those who think they are christians are probably not very christian at all. they may be the ones who would not enter the kingdom of heaven either so to speak. ironic but probably true. lol
The ONLY historian of the time to even mention Jesus. (And those are probably additions from later editors.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus
Josephus was a Roman-Jewish historian who was born around 35BCE. He was the earliest and most credible non-christian who referred to Jesus.
