Who designed the designer?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Thank you for presenting your opinion I expect we are to take it this is your belief.
    Did the designer create God?
    Why was the devil created?
    How long in time is " always existed"?
    Did the designer exist in emptiness or was the universe and other places around back then?

    And what evidence can you offer in support of your currently unsupported claims.

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  3. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    I do recall at least one of those poems but I couldn't find it.
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  5. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

    Copy below for you
    One for you SSB

    Since I have posted in this thread
    I often worried it would go dead
    Dispite the efforts from original post
    Everything seems to hang on a stupid boast
    Sure I can decipher the English Code
    Huffed a flying red car
    Or I
    Burnt toast


    Don't think my finest but neat

    New breakthrough on the English language

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    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
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  7. kx000 Valued Senior Member

    There is no way for a God who never began to be created or new. That which has the nature of arising has the nature to cease.

    The devil was created out of confusion over the nature of hell; whether it is moral or not. Because hate may be the devil.

    Eternity is a countless number.
  8. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

    You can do anything in fiction

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  9. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    I guessed you missed my request for evidence in support of your opinion.

    How do you know God was not created?
    How do you know the devil was created?
  10. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    It's self-evident that God can not be created. This would not be God otherwise.

    The Devil isn't God and therefore must be created.
  11. Bells Staff Member

    The Watchmaker Argument..

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  12. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Why is it self evident?
    We have no evidence that describes God via a eye witness, we have no evidence in fact absolutely nothing to indicate not only Gods existence but if indeed the existence could be established we have nothing to indicate God was or was not created.
    You merely assume something and then present it as a belief with out flaw claiming what you believe is self evident.
    Not good enough you know.
    If you can't offer evidence day so as not to do so is to bear false witness.
    How do you know this, what evidence did you accept such that you endorse this notion.
    I could say the devil has always existed and he created God to give humans false hope and justification to kill others because they don't follow the religion of the killers.
    And given the none involvement of God in our world it could seem my proposition is as good as any other strange notions built upon no facts or understanding.
    Perhaps there is only the devil and he lies about there being a God to give fools hope that there is purpose to their lives when obviously there is none.
    You can make your claims sound reasonable if you could provide evidence in support.
  14. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    We all know what God is. It's in our DNA. Believer and non-believer all know what God is, therefore it's self-evident. There is no physical evidence possible. That's what mainstream science wants but that's just silly.

    God, just is.
  15. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    Why? You're not going to agree with me, and I'm not going to agree with you. That should be obvious by now. As such we will get nowhere.
    The real point is, I am a theist, and you are an atheist. It is these designation that we base our point of view views on.

    Maybe you do, but I don't.
    I understand why an atheist cannot, and will never comprehend God.
    You no doubt think that 'there is no God' to comprehend, at least, none that you can sense.
    From your perspective, you are correct, and because you cannot sense God, at all, you cannot conceive of my position as ever being correct.

    Why is it a grand claim?
    Why isn't it an ordinary claim?

    Why do you think being inspired by God, a big deal?

    What do you think the bible is?
    For example, do you think it is book to make people feel good. Or do you think it is a book of morals, and rules??

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
    What would you accept as evidence that Jesus existed?

    Consider a militant red-necked racist, looking at some black babies. He may think these babies, due to not being white, aren't quite human. In fact, that is how they got the go ahead to enslave Africans. They said they weren't quite human because their brain sizes were smaller, hence they were sub-human, and without human rights.
    This red neck will look at these babies, and not see humans. Even today there are people who think black people aren't fully human. It isn't until a redneck destroys his ignorance that he has a chance of comprehending that black people are as much human, as any body else.

    You are in a similar position, where you cannot see the evidence right in front of you. You will simply bypass it, and continue with you ''where is the evidence'' song.
    Unfortunately, your ''I would really like to see the evidence'' is nothing more than lip service. You have no intention of seeing any evidence. The only time that intention will materialise is when you are no longer atheist.

    Are you going to answer them or not?
    Just say yay or nay, as I really haven't got time for nonsense.

    ''Rigged'' probably isn't a good word.
    I mean that your audience is predominantly atheist (even the so-called theists), so obviously they're going to back you, unless you embarrass them.

    I don't need to defend my position. I'm not the one who is lacking.

  16. gmilam Valued Senior Member

    Why hasn't this troll been banned yet?
  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

    I must have been on the toilet when god went round putting "who god is" into the DNA
    I'm guessing someone like the pope got all the left over "who god is"
    Yep cries go up all over the land " Join the circus Science your just silly. And take all your theories with you"
    Oh my god the god is virus is spreading
    Someone please contact the Centre for god Control

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  18. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    He is expert at staying just the right side of the rules, I think. On forums on which the moderation could exercise more judgement, he would be gone for sure.
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    In your example, and in all similar examples, one can point to the evidence that is being overlooked, and make an argument. It then becomes a matter of reason - the racist, and people in similar positions, will be unable to make sense.

    They will not necessarily abandon their illusions and fantasies, but they will be forced to rely on assertions of perceived reality they cannot demonstrate, superior comprehensions only available to those who understand in the first place.
  20. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    So should some of the atheists, by the same token.

  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    It has been clear to me all the while Jan.
    I know you will not alter my belief and actually I have never intended to change yours and suggest that your realisation probably is not in step with your belief that somehow others will come over to your side due to your presentation of what you consider to be strong facts.
    I think it is cute how folk believe in Santa, the devil, God and all the fairy tales it shows they have wonderful and special imaginations.
    But my request for evidence is more a request about why you believe what you do, and it dies not have to be evidence that will convince me, just something that gives me an idea why you believe, clearly there is no real evidence of God as it would have been presented by you or someone by now.
    It can be whatever type of claim you wish.
    Perhaps you fail to see my concern.
    But if you can choose between inspiration and delusion with entire confidence I could understand it will not be a problem for you.
    It is many things to many people I call it a religious book.
    I would consider any evidence but as with many things I am sceptical.
    It seems there have been others in history with the same or very similar stories and Jesus story was not written until after at least a couple of generations after his death.
    One has a choice to either simply believe the bible or to look at history.
    My preferred view comes from realising humans looked to personify stuff and Jesus may well be a product of such an approach.
    Rather poor way to present your case Jan but moreover a brilliant avoidance to meet my simple request.
    You have no idea how funny that sounds Jan but given you are serious I suggest your difficulty whatever it may be can be overcome by presenting exhibit "A"... We call it "A" because it will be the first piece of evidence so as exhibits accumulate they are easy to manage, certainly a problem that probably won't present itself here.
    I think your audience to be there, they probably stay silent because clearly you handle yourself very well and they may remain silent happy to simply sit and watch.
    For myself clearly the less capable will get folk jumping in trying to assist my lesser efforts.
    I only hope you can find enlightenment Jan.
  22. river

    In the end Jan

    You and everyone else has gotten nowhere .

    God is either , Abrahamic based or is a Universal creater of life .

    Either god is an ancient space being , alien . Or god is in all things .

    Which is it ?
  23. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    In the dna is a good start. Which bit?
    And given the large number of Gods perhaps it would be best to say "Gods just are".

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