Yea, you smart guys really have it all figured out. Abductees are really just sleep-deprived depressed people, and the unknown substances found implanted in people are really known substances, even though they're not. Whatever. ------------------ God loves you and so do I!
STFU Lori. You know you are exaggerating and distorting what was said, so just STFU. An interesting theory regarding a scientifically proven illness was presented. In no way did the author say it explained all abductions. Maybe if you opened your eyes you would see it is a viable explanation! And you have yet to present any facts behind your allegedly unknown elements. So until you can, I choose to disagree with you.
Boris Sleep Paralysis is all very well as a theory for the Alien abduction experience but in order to be a credible one it leaves much to be desired. You can't just pick the facts you want for a theory and leave the rest because they do not fit. Before I go any further I would like to say that I really do not have any idea as to what is going on. However, I don't like the sound of this particular area and I'd quite like to have it explained to me as sleep paralysis or some other mental thing in a way that I could happily accept. The thought of some alien coming into my bedroom at night and taking me against my will to have anal probes and what ever else is not one I'm very confortable with. The trouble is I can't believe that sleep paralysis is the answer. For a start this would be ignoring the fact that many abductees had their experience when they were not asleep at all. When you add to this other aspects, such as strange marks on the body and the weird fact that abductions of more than one person at once are not uncommon, it does tend to suggest that something else is going on here and not some dream state thing. Many abductees have actually been wide awake and seen a UFO before their abduction(Travis Walton to name a famous one). We need a theory which can explain all facets of this phemomena rather than just certain areas.
plato according to you we shuold question every thing we believe we "know" how could we really understand anything if all our conceptions are interpreted to fit these preformed pictures. Isn't that the way human thinking works? I am curious if you think there is other life in the universe
Plato & Double O If UFOs are actually the vehicles of ETs they seem to be making a pretty lousy job of hiding themselves. Either that or they don't care being seen. Consider this, the Mexican UFO wave started on the day of the total eclipse in 1991. On that day most of the population of the Mexico City (the largest city in the world) was looking skywards to watch the event. A UFO was seen and videotaped from approximately 17 different locations. Anybody who has seen this footage would have to agree that it appears to show a silver metallic disk shaped craft. I have yet to hear anybody give a reasonable explanation as to what this object is, never mind some of the even more amazing videos to come out of Mexico since. First of all, even though this event gained mass media coverage in Mexico, it did not even merit a mention on our TV news or in my daily paper. Why not? This ongoing UFO wave in Mexico is the largest in recorded history with many sightings being of vast aerial fleets of objects. It seems to me that the vast majority of people outside Mexico are still not aware of this. Last year (or year before) a similar event happened in America over Phoenix Arizona. This event was also videotaped by a number of people and has not yet been satisfactorily explained. The best the USAF came up with was flares. I've seen the video and it is truly impressive. I've personally never heard of flares that could hover at a constant altitude before. I'd like to know if either of you are aware of these events or have seen any of the video tapes? I'd also love to know how you would explain them? [This message has been edited by Spadge (edited June 21, 1999).]
Hi- Would any of you go to work tomorrow if Aliens landed at the White House? Would we need oil for long after they landed? How will we incorporate their technology and culture into ours? What about all the numbnuts that Would panic? And the ones who are so seriously un-civillized as to riot and loot? While a lot of people ~believe~ that there is life OUT THERE. to be confronted with the FACT that they are HERE is another story. I know they're here- saw one of their ships a long time ago. To this day we have nothing that could do what that ship did. I hope they get tired of waiting for us to -get over it- and either land and let panic begin, or just go away. You can do your part by learning to control your impulse to react in fear. (ME TOO) Peace ramonth
You were all discussing the so called alien implants issue earlier. I am able to fill in the grey areas here. The truth is that up to the end of 1998 seven such surgeries have been performed to recover such objects from people's bodies. Boris quite rightly points out that none have been remove from people's brains. In the first two surgeries three objects were recovered, two from the toe of a female patient and one from the hand of a male. All three objects were covered with a dark shiny membrane which resisted being cut with a sharp, new surgical blade. Interestingly, both patients had reported that they felt pain in the areas on week prior to the surgery. Afterwards, when interviewed, they both independently reported a "new found feeling of freedom." Another very interesting fact which became apparent was that the pathological reports were very strange. A large amount of nerve proprioceptors were found in the surrounding tissues. These are never found in the anatomical locations that the specimens were excised from. This is something that cannot be explained with any of the current medical knowledge. Also, there was a total lack of any inflamatory response to the presence of the objects. The metalurgical tests were carried out by Los Alamos National Labs and the New Mexico Tech. Underneath the grey cladding it was found that one object contained a T shaped structure. One part of the T shape contained a core made of the hardest iron carbide which was magnetic. This core was covered with a complex cladding of eleven different elements. Its componemt part, which appears to fit into a cavity in a way that looks manufactured, contains a carbon core which was soft and magnetoconductive. The verticle piece also has a band of cystals which completely circles it. At least some scientific consultants are convinced that this object has been manufactured. There were two other very mysterious findings during these and the other five surgeries caried out. In two cases, where small BB shaped greyish-white balls were discovered, pathologists reported Solar Elastosis in a small area of the skin directly above the objects. This means that the dermal layer of the skin had been severely exposed to ultraviolet radiation. Neither of the surgical candidates admitted to a history of overexposure to sunlight. The other odd fact was that six of the seven objects recovered fluoresced under ultraviolet light. This also is not yet fully understood. Whilst I agree that these results are not conclusive proof of alien implants, I'm sure that you would agree that they are indeed quite interesting. I hope that clarifies things a bit. [This message has been edited by Spadge (edited June 22, 1999).]
If aliens were to visit us here is how I think they would do it: They would land on the backside of the Moon, or possibly a lot further away. Their landing would likely have occurred long ago. They would send probes to all major objects of the solar system. On Earth, they would set up a network of highly sophisticated nanomachines. There would be trillions, maybe quadrillions, of them roaming the planet all smaller than the eye could see. The nanomachines would be programmed to evade detection -- by moving out of the way of prying electron microscopes and by cleaning up destroyed nanomachines. Aside from the usual -- photography, gravity maps, geology surveys, the first major survey would be biology. The aliens would catalog the genetic codes of every species of life on the planet from humans down to lowly viruses. Using this they would form a picture of how our biology works. I doubt that aliens abductions would be necessary. Then the aliens could learn our languages. It would be easy to listen to all five billion plus people speak. They could apply neural nets to determine our languages grammar, vocabulary and even slang. Then the aliens could keep an eye on our technology, learn our history by reading our books or anything else they wanted. They would know everything about us and we could not even know they existed until they decided to make appearence (or until we put up a nanomachine net like they do).
Nice try but the only reason you think they use nanomachines is because of the recent hype that these machines will be possible in the future to give us some real break through medical capabilities. So again you are taking present day (or near future) technology and applying it to the aliens. Let's look in some very broad lines how alien technology could look like. First of all they will have a means to transport across the vast distences of the stars because that's where they come from, I don't think anyone is going to defy that. We don't have any clue how they pull that off technologicly speaking, they can do it with super luminal velocity or with subluminal ships. If they do it with superluminal speed then I imagine it's not really nescessary to be absolutely sure that you are going to find what you seek but otherwise they must have had means to know of our presence in advance simply of economical reasons. If you look at how little we know of the stuff that we know they should have as a logical consequence of being startravellers, then how are we to speculate about the other technologies that they use. An other thing that can be very different is their way how they organise their society. We don't have a lot of different models of social organisation but we've only been experimenting for let's say 5000 years. How could we have any idea of the things a species can come up with in the course of say a million years of recorded history ? ------------------ we are midgets standing on the backs of giants, Plato
I thought this discussion was about why, if aliens are here, they don't show themselves? All you septics out there, I ask you again! If you are all disputing the fact that aliens are here, what do the thousands of similar videos shot by camcorders all around the world in the last 10 years actually show? Are these craft built by humans instead? Are they for some covert military purpose? What then? Why is it that sceptics always remain silent when it comes to debating things which they find more diffcult to explain? So far none of you have even ventured an opinion on the Mexican UFO wave I mentioned earlier. Is that because you cannot debunk it that easily? You always say "THERE IS NO EVIDENCE." What then, is shown in these videos? And do not even dare insult my intelligence by suggesting that a)they are hoaxes or b)they are weather ballons or c)they are the planet venus. or even a combination of all three I would suggest if these videos cannot be explained rationally then they DO in fact constitute evidence of a sort and an ET connection will have to be considered! Anyway, that's the end of my little rant.... I await your scepticism with great interest! [This message has been edited by Spadge (edited June 23, 1999).]
You know Spadge, why I have a problem with most UFO reports now-a-days is because of all the hoaxs, regretfully it dampens their credibility by association. The reports that I find so compelling are ones from official sources. Not that the Mexico sightings haven't come from official sources, I just haven't really investigated those sighting seriously. The reports that surprise me and I consider more seriously than others are video clips from the space shuttle. I'm sure many of you guys saw on "Sightings" and "Encounters" those video clips I'm talking about. For one thing, I'm interested on how they even got released. Another, is the explanation. I know that one of the explanations for one of the clips was "ice particles", but I haven't heard an "official" explanation for the others. Other compelling evidence for me has been Astronauts coming forth and announcing that "yes" they have seen UFO's in space and at other times. As well as, our former President, Jimmy Carter, stating that he has seen UFO's. How do you explain this type of evidence? Are these people all delusional and in deep need of psychiatric care? Aren't these the type of reports we are to consider solid evidence? I'm a skeptic at heart and I don't sway easily, but this type of evidence leads me to believe that "yes" there are UFO's or alien space crafts visiting earth. And if someone doesn't give me a good, solid, rational explanation for these reports, I'm afraid that I will have to resolve myself to retaining this belief. Bev Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! [This message has been edited by Bev (edited June 23, 1999).]
Look here you alienlovers, All that I'm asking is for you to admid you don't know any more then I do what is actually going on when a UFO is observed. I mean there isn't a sign on it that says "Hello, I'm an alien" in 250 different languages so instead of fantasizing about it just admid that we don't know what it is and get it over with. The only thing you can do is describe to the best of your abilities what you see once you start saying you are seeing alien spacecraft you are fantisizing, speculating, projecting your ideas on the unknown. Leave out all the BS and stick to the observables, please ! ------------------ we are midgets standing on the backs of giants, Plato
Hey Plato, what do you mean about "observables"? OH, and I resent the "alienlovers" label! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Also, I ADMIT I don't have a clue, I'm just in search of the truth. Have a nice day! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Bev
Plato I also resent the term 'alien lovers' as I too am not making any assumptions here. If you'd read any of my earlier posts you would know that I'm still not convinced about the ETH theory. However, it does seem perfectly logical to me that if these objects are doing things that no earthly vehicle can, then this idea has to be considered. I feely admit that I do not know what UFOs are but at least I'm trying to find out. I'd like to know what you think they are? Bev Yes, that’s fair comment about the hoaxing. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the subject, these things are always gonna happen. However, sceptics should not use this fact to tar all cases with the same brush. I also agree with you about the official reports being very interesting. When you hear someone like former Apollo astronaut, Gordon Cooper, say “Yes, I’ve seen these things and I believe them to be extraterrestrial!” it does hit home with a little more oooph. I mentioned the Belgium UFO wave of 1991 on one of my other postings when the Belgium military admitted in a press conference that an strange object had evaded two F16s by performing manoeuvers that no human pilot could not have survived. Colonel Wilfred De Brower actually said “there is something going on in our airspace which we cannot explain.” They even displayed the radar tapes of the F16s lock ons. I’ve heard an interview with one of the F16 pilots and he was in no doubt that this object was extraterrestrial. Add to this the 2000 odd Belgians who reported this object during this wave (some of which were Gendarmes) and I fail to see how sceptics cannot accept this to be evidence. The videos from the shuttle are very interesting. The clip with the ‘ice particles’ was certainly not explained by NASA in a way that accounted for all of the odd aspects of the film fin my opinion. You may well be aware the American scientist Dr Jack Kasher has conducted an in depth study of this particular clip and concluded that the objects shown are indeed powered space vehicles and not ice particles.
Strange that you feel offended by the term alienlover, this still is a public message baord so I was addressing the alienlover which clearly you are not. But ok, what do I think of the ufo's ? I like not to think anything of it at all, untill presented with further evidence I don't want to draw to any conclusion but this : ufo (not the hoaxes of course) are as of today unexplained fenomena, nothing more, nothing less. Pretty lame answer, ha ? As of the Belgian sightings, it happens that I am a Belgian and indeed our newspapers where full of alien crafts at that time. They where talking about triangular objects hovering in the sky. First of all there were far less then 2000 people who saw them, more like 20 will do just fine. Then the F-16 pilote saw what he saw and since he was flying a plane, he assumed that the object he was following was a vehicle as well, but here comes in the speculation. He only had a bleep on his radar, it could have been anything up to a malfuntioning of his device. So again I'm not taking any stand on this and as long as the aliens don't reveil themselves I chose not to believe in their existence at all ! ------------------ we are midgets standing on the backs of giants, Plato
Novice internaut reaction: no need to get personal here, just us humans tryin' to make the day go a little easier. My only comment is that the film Men in Black seemed to me to be more truth disguised as fiction. This backwater planet of ours couldn't have much to interest FTL Travellers, other than a place to hide or rest. Idle curiosity is about all I can muster and I live here. Speculation is fun and the "evidence" mounts in our respective worldviews. Reflections within shadows, smoke and mirrors, all of our own making. Vastly entertainin' I'd say. ------------------ super luminal
Plato I am not offended, I just didn't like the 'alien lover' term as it is incorrect. Regarding the Belgium wave, I'm afraid I have to inform you (again, as in the Pyramids debate) that you are wrong. An estimated 2000 people reported UFOs in that particular wave. That is the correct answer and I stand by it. However, that figure did include sightings from outside the borders of Belgium. Considering that the vast majority of the UFOs were sighted inside Belgium I would have to dispute your estimate of 20 as way too low. The very same triangular UFOs also caused a wave in Great Britain on March 31st 1993. Oddly, this was exactly 12 months later to the very night. As for saying the aircraft's radar could have malfunctioned, that is not possible. Why? For the simple reason that both aircraft locked onto this object and also two radar stations on the ground at Semmerzake and at Glans. The fact that each radar reported the same object is pretty conclusive. Also, the object was not, in the opinion of both pilots and ground controllers, anything that could have been ascribed to a meterological phenomena. You also suggest that you don't want to think of UFOs at all until you are presented with further evidence. Then why the hell did you post this debate if your not willing to take any of the points onboard? No offence intended, but I don't understand your attitude here. [This message has been edited by Spadge (edited July 05, 1999).]
Plato.... I know it for a fact, on the White House lawn there is this little sign that says: ABSOLUTELY NO ALIEN SPACECRAFT ON THE WHITE HOUSE LAWN!!! Silly Billy's idea! Maybe, there is a few of those signs up around Parliament! Maybe... gov't officials have an agreement with the aliens that there will be "NO GRANDSTANDING"! Bev Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! [This message has been edited by Bev (edited June 23, 1999).] [This message has been edited by Bev (edited June 23, 1999).] [This message has been edited by Bev (edited June 23, 1999).]
Other life outside our planet ? O yes, very much so ! And I'm quite convinced we will have descisive evidence of it in the next century of life in our very solar system. If it is in our solar system, there must be other solar systems as well that harbour life, it might be as common as the stars themselves. Now I'm speculating myself, but I think the chances of having it right are a bit more then the chances of ufo's being alien spacecraft. If the universe is teeming with life then automatically there must be huge numbers of intelligent species. Or is this automation not that evident ? We only have one example of intelligent life for the moment, or if we take the higher primates and the cateceans in it as well a handfull. Not really what one would call a representative statisticle measurement. So untill we have some more data on this subject, we must be really carefull with conclusions. Spadge, I think we are the evidence that life on other planets exist since we definetly don't life in the same one Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I don't know where you got your information but this ufo sighting in '91 was just blown out of proportion by our media. Hell, we even made it in the American news so suddenly all kinds of people started to witness the curious triangle shapes. That is why I say that only 1% actually saw something anomalous, the others were just flowing with the hype. ------------------ we are midgets standing on the backs of giants, Plato
