What will it take for theists to stop believing?

Well, you start by proving that all equilateral triangles are equiangular and alos by proving that the interior angles of any triangle are equal to two right angles. See Euclid if you need a refresher on these. From there it follows that no single angle of an equilateral triangle is a right angle and hence that there are no equilateral right triangles.

 

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You win this one. But I'll be back!

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please tell me we are not talking about god as an old dude with a long beard dressed in white

i agree with those who are saying that theism is similar to atheism. both believe in an absolute based on "faith"

to be atheist is as ludicrous as saying 'god spoke to me'

any discussion about god should begin with a definition because the idea is too abstract. to me god is man's lack of understanding and therefore "god" will always exist.

 

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drnihili

You care to actually offer some rational opposition to ANY of my arguments?????

Or are you just trying to make believe that you are right by accusing me of falsely defining what a theist\atheist is... all the while not offering anything better?

When you can do more than accuse me of misunderstanding people... please write back and try again.

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If you believe in something or a being that is transcendantal to you... you are not an atheist.

Never claimed that. Please find the place where I said that and show me...

Point? Anyways, thanks for admitting later on that true atheists just simply do not believe.

Predjudice:
"To define without knowledge."

I have knowledge about what the true atheist represent.
I have knowledge of the struggle of the rational theist...

So unless you can actually PROVE me wrong... calling me predjudicial isn't worth much other than your opinion.

Prisme


P.S.
Tiassa, I was only kidding. Thought you were more hard-core thought when it came to faith. Peace.

 

So then He those exist?

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More seriously...

How can God be man's ignorance?
You seem to be saying that where there is knowledge, there is no God. Yet the power to gain knowledge is a miracle in itself. (compared to animals)

In any case, knowledge gathered by science can only explain the 'How' of things not the 'Why'.
(Science can tell you how the planets revolve, not why they revolve. Science tells you how a ball will roll, not why.)

Science, and thus man's knowledge, will never be able to explain the 'Why' of things... thus our ignorance will be eternal... as God is. (as you defined Him)

Conclusion:
Althought our technical knowledge works, we are and will always be unable to fully explain the Why of things. Thus, this is the filed of theology and God.

I would be careful going around saying that God is our ignorance (lack of knowledge\understanding). You might be saying more than you are ready to admit.

Prisme

 

Prisme,

Apparently you can neither read carefully nor think clearly. But since you have set yourself up as a higher authority on atheism than are the atheists themselves, I can see no prudent course but to leave you to your delusions.

Should you ever become capable of rational discourse, let me know.

drnihili

 

more clearly put god is the unknown. where we understand we have no need for god. believers believe because it's the easy answer.

prisme: please define your god

 

LOL

Nice surrender drnihili... pretending to win by running away.

I accept your surrender.

Peace

P.S.
Don't try that in a court of law.. you'll get toast.

 

To those who still have the will to debate...

If this is true, I have just shown that some things we will never know... thus your definition of God will remain true eternaly.

Why would admitting that we are not the sole proprietors of the universe and our existence be any easyer than claiming that we are the sole proprietors of the universe and existence?
Maybe not having to fear a god is a pretty easy life too... no?

Many atheists have a predjudice seeing theists as people who are not facing reality.
This is a predjudice for there is no proof that theists have an easyer life than atheists... and if they did, then this should show us that man was naturally conceived to be religious and should stick to it if he wants to survive.


(out of time, will give you my definition of my God real soon, promise)

Prisme

 

Cool 'nuff

Sho'nuff ... works for me. I thought maybe I was about to be surprised with an issue I'd completely missed ... it does happen from time to time.

But someday I'll try to fill in the idea I have of what I do as compared to actual religious faith. But that becomes it's own topic. Thanx.

:m:,
Tiassa

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Hallelujah!

If I offer quiet applause, it's only quiet so as not to wake the baby.

But I believe you've hit the nail on the head, crucified the crux of the problem, so to speak.

Yes, it's a pale turn of words, but I never like putting a whole lot of effort into simple cheerleading. Good show, nonetheless.

:m:,
Tiassa

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Re: Hallelujah!

In which case my question is, "Should we strive to minimize or maximize God?"

Supposedly, ignorance is bliss... or is that the point?

~Raithere

P.S. My next topic: God; giant cork-board or the big trash can in the sky?

 

God is dead; but given the way of men, there may still be caves for thousands of years in which his shadow will be shown. -And we- we still have to vanquish his shadow, too.

-from Nietzsche's The Gay Science

In direct answer to the subject of this thread, theists will never stop believing. Theists are the most closed-minded ignoramuses on the planet.

 

Re: LOL

It's not a surrender, it's a recognition of an unproductive discussion. Your psost show that you don't carefully read what others write, and don't put a lot of effort into your own thoughts. That by itself I could work with, but when you also set yourself up as knowing more about other people's beliefs than they do, it becomes obvious that you really have no intention of trying to understand. Under those conditions, rational discourse is impossible. You will undoubtedly find others who you will interpret as agreeing with you. Others you will dismiss without bothering to understand.

As for court, I tend to do pretty well there, but it's hardly a good model for rational discussion.

 

drnihili:

Ever thought of getting a hobby that you are actually good at? Stop wasting thread bytes and form an argument better than accusing me of being irrational.. (which doesn't mean I am necessarily wrong here) and which you are the only one accusing me of being an idiot. Show me you can actually use your Logos rather than your lame opinions to fight for you or go back to your triangles and face your loss.

In Zarathrousta, Nietzsche was saying that the Christian God is dead. He has never said or proven that The God is dead.

Prove it please. Your attitude is also demonstrating that many atheists are narrow-minded and categorical, and this, without proof.
Please hurry, or drnihili will be on your case for badly categorizing all theists.


Prisme

 

well said, skinwalker

Yes, yes, and yes. I have observed the phenomenon you mention, the considerate, passive atheist is everywhere. I won't go into all the religious folks who have frothed at the mouth while telling me to get out of their country, get out of their vision, or just die. It seems to me that belligerence often comes with the certainty of eternal life and a direct line to the creator of the universe.

Would these absolutist concepts have anything common, I wonder?

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Ah but you see that's the point. If you had bothered to read and think you would see the arguments already. Simply protesting that there are none, doesn't make them go away. Neither does resort to ad hominem argument. I accuse you of being irrational because your posts exhibit little evidence of rationality. TO be sure, you have a nice turn of phrase every now and then, but there is nothing beyond that in what you say, nothing approaching a cogent argument. So the subject has turned to your rhetoric as there is no substance to discuss in your posts. Conversations require two parties, and you are either unwilling or unable to converse at a deeper level than this. If you want to have a substantive discussion, then start by examining your own position and the position of those who disagree with you. Otherwise you remain just another Narcissus talking at the mirror. At least it assures that you never face disagreement.

 

Various

Raithere

Neither. God becomes irrelevant to most questions when God is rendered without consequence.

Prisme

How so? I'm willing bet money that your response to that question involves issues that are of no functional concern to me.

:m:,
Tiassa

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Re: Various

Tiassa, sometimes I think you're still an atheist. Or perhaps you’re just too subtle for me. For what questions is God relevant? I can ponder non-existence, infinity, and the vastness of my ignorance without the label or is God nothing more than a cozie for the mind?

~Raithere

 

(Insert Title Here)

Um ....

It's a little more than that. I mean, I'm not sure I believe 10,000 or 100,000 people meditating in harmony can create a miracle, but even if they did there's no reason to go dragging God into it.

For everything people say about God: If God is something, what of that which God is not?

It's all accretions. At its heart, God is nothing more than the thrill you got as a child on a clear night after the snow with only the clouds of your breath to tamper with the myriad glittering stars. It is the idea of possibility made into something people can interact with more directly. God is a parlor trick. But it's an incredibly influential one that cannot be denied.

A friend of mine asserts that every culture, as it came together and first settled, set about manufacturing an intoxicant rather quickly, as if getting loaded was a necessary part of society. Of course, you should see that boy drink ....

I like to think of it this way: Until, say, the French Revolution, nations and empires were founded on God. These days, if God is mentioned, it's a formality. I think the difference is the American Revolution. I tend to think that the British and then the Americans pretty much ruined Christianity and nations. Actually, we can look at Israel in the modern day and see what a sore thumb it is in the West. Likewise, we see the tyrants of the modern day driving the final nails into the coffins of the Islamic governments. Until recently, every culture was founded on God.

People have some need to deal with this thing they call God. You might as well get used to it. Humans will never give it up entirely. In the meantime, disarm God. Take the sting out. Chop its balls off. Help people to not worry about God. They can make better choices from there. And who knows? Perhaps I underestimate the atheist potential. Perhaps, in not fearing God, people will be willing to let it go.

:m:,
Tiassa

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