what the fuck!!

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by plasticwingsmelting, Nov 21, 2003.

?

Is MJ the only source we can trust?

  1. Yes...

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  2. No!

    11 vote(s)
    73.3%
  1. Rappaccini Redoubtable Registered Senior Member

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    1,192
    More likely, the officials would have the good sense to remove him from the general population.
     
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  3. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Lets ask this question: if MJ is a child molester does that reduce the quality of his music to you all?

    Wraith,

    You are being warned: please do not avoid using profanity when needed, use "FUCKING" instead of "FRIGGIN"

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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    Probably all he/she/it will ever gets

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    I was never a big fan of his music. I prefer male singers who have a voice that indicate that their testicles have actually dropped.



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  7. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

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    1,793
    Hey Cool Skill.
    When they present a sample of MJ's semen in court and say they pulled it out of some kiddies ass or maybe from the back of the kids throat, or even out of his ears. Are you gonna suggest that it was planted there or maybe that MJ deposited it as an act of love?
    I they find face-ache guilty will you pull his posters down off your bedroom wall or will you cry 'MJ is innocent, this is a travesty of justice!'? Is there anything that can convince you?
    BTW Could Wacko be first in line for a face transplant? If he puts the old one up for sale I bet you could pick it up cheaply on E-Bay and then you could look just like your hero! (except he'd look different of course)

    All worship is a substitute for rational thought.
    Dee Cee
     
  8. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

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    9,072
    Name the evidence?
    Charges mean nothing.
     
  9. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    why would charges mean nothing? It does not mean he is a child molester, it just increases the probability that he is one. Honestly whom would you trust more with your child, a family member or a famous person with charges of child molestation?
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2003
  10. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,331
    Somewhere in America OJ Simpson is sitting on a couch, switching from
    channel to channel, and just laughing his ass off. Because if there is
    anything in America that is worse than lopping off your wife's head, it
    is being a child molester. Guilty or not, Michael is insane.

    Look at a picture of him... you know it and I know it.

    :m: Peace.
     
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,391
    It's craziness, people

    Why is it that people only seem to care about Michael Jackson because of the negativity? I can't stand looking at him because I don't like to think about the conditions that push someone--that allow someone--to become as out of hand as the things we already know about him: Who conned him in to the O2 tent? What was with the monkey? Has anyone asked Emmanuel Lewis if the gloved one ever performed a laying of the hands?

    I listened to Jermaine Jackson light up CNN. He is so fucking tired of this and that and ya-ya-ya. And I was entertained by this because somebody had to say it. But Jermaine's in some odd denial; we hear the stories on one hand about Michael's childhood, and then here's Jermaine insisting that everything was damn near perfect, overflowing with love, and burdened only with happiness.

    I look at Michael's face and there's only one time I've seen someone more frightened of themselves, and that's when Eddie Vedder wouldn't let go of the kid from the "Jeremy" video at the award show. Michael? He tried so hard to hide his fear that ... well, this is the result.

    He's not guilty until reasonably convicted. I bit and convicted him in my mind the last time this came up, and it seems I was wrong. But whether he's guilty or not, I actually feel badly for Michael Jackson: things never should have gone this far in the first place.

    But that's America for you. And we'll do it again, every day.

    In the meantime, I'm stunned at the lack genuine compassion for MJ or his victim. Remember that whatever else is going on, this is not, cannot be, and will not be justice.

    Some days I like to just lay on the floor and let my daughter crawl over me. She seems to like having Daddy as a mountain to crawl over. So the other day she crawls up over my head, and then begins to bounce up and down while essentially straddling my face. Mommy laughed, Daddy laughed, Emma Grace laughed, and then I said, "No, dear, that's not for Daddy," and picked her up off my face. Now, I've listened to Dr. Ruth, I've suffered through that other old woman now on ... Lifetime? And books and this and that and so forth, and I'm damn well aware that she's experimenting with sensation. And everyone I know knows that so they just laugh at how silly a baby can be and how cute it can be. Nobody ever for a moment thinks I'm taking sexual pleasure from having a diaper crammed in my face, nobody thinks she's a nymphomaniac. She's being human, and my immediate family and friends seem impressed by the idea that's all I do as a parent--let her be human.

    Michael Jackson will never have such a simple and warm moment. Think about the difference that comes--especially in youth--between wrestling with the girl next door and suddenly realizing that you can touch her boobies. On that day the way you relate to people changes drastically. The simple pleasures to be found in other people are not, and never really have been allowed Michael Jackson.

    Yeah, he's farging crazy. There's no two ways about that. But what I find even more insane is the number of people who will find pleasure in his downfall, who are willing to see a 12 year-old molested or raped in order to satisfy their hatred of Michael freakin' Jackson.

    I hope Michael is legitimately acquitted. Not out of any great respect for Michael, although I do find the fall of celebrities of my childhood somewhat tragic. Rather, if Michael is legitimately and honestly innocent, it means I wake up with one less rape survivor coping with life in America. And I'll take that any day.
     
  12. outlandish smoki'n....... Registered Senior Member

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    4,033
    good to see your name in bold and italics tiassa
     
  13. outlandish smoki'n....... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,033
    we have to distinguish a few parameters here within this debate:

    1)MJ's state of mind, regarding surgery, possible child abuse etc.
    2) MJ's level of general "naiveity" resulting from any of the factors above, the extent to this naiveity within the context of his PR over the years (how much control did he really have....[I suspect a lot]) and the child abuse allegations, hypothetically lets say he has indulged in activities which may be construed as "mollestation" then just how aware is he that what he has done is wrong/immoral etc.
    3) whether not he is guilty of child abuse, irrespective of all the other parameters which cloud this debte (#1) aswell as detaching ourselves from the level of fame and wealth that is attributed to MJ.

    My thoughts (all subjective opinions cool skill....see the difference)

    -I feel MJ is guilty of child abuse, plain and simple, again I'm not saying he is guilty, I'm saying that is what I believe, my gut feeling if you like.

    -I also feel that #2 will play crucial role in MJ's defence. In my opinion the evidence will show that MJ has abused kids, hence his defence will use his state of mind as a way of offsetting the damage.

    -I feel that MJ knew all along that what he was doing was wrong, and is fully aware of his actions within ethical/moral parameters, in fact I will go as far as to say that the whole image MJ has cultivated and nurtured over the years of the "Innocent hapless, child like lost, naive adult with the lost childhood" has been a cynical move to provide the right PR cover from which to hide behind, and I also believe the neverland ranch was just an elaborate stage to lure kids to him. Harsh maybe, but I just don't buy this "Innocent, naiveity" bullshit.
     
  14. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    So MJ insanity is due to the public and his early live in showbiz, so what new about that idea?
     
  15. outlandish smoki'n....... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,033
    my friend , you place way too much credence in the contemorary legal system.

    A court of law finds X to be true, doesn't mean X in reality is true.

    ...oh dear,...forgive me if that sounded patronising, it was no way my intention.

    :m:
     
  16. thefountainhed Fully Realized Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,076
    Wraith,

    Care to maybe expand on the foundation of this gut feeling that MJ is guilty? Also that this neverland ranch of his-- an idea that he by the way, developed during a period in the guys lifetime which approached the "norm", was an invention to lure kids. And please don't forget why you believe his current image is cultivated.

    In my view, the man is psychotic. He had always been plagued by insecurities. The attention he gets/got enhanced these insecurities. The media bashing, which started after he started his plastic surgery sickness made him even more antisocial, more untrusting, and made him retreat into his shell. His association which children I would attribute both to an attemt to relive a childhood and comfort in the "innocent". Much like his obsession with animals, toys, etc. The man is a textbook case.

    It must be said however that his constant association with children could have fucked up his mind even more and along paths I cannot begin to imagine. I have however no proof/evidence to suggest he is a pedophile. Also maybe you should look at coolskill's assertion about a so called "set-up". It was interesting how little coverage that got in the media. I suppose his innocence sells less tablods than MJ is a freak who like to pets little kids in their privates.
     
  17. outlandish smoki'n....... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,033
    yo,

    check your PM already.
     
  18. zanket Human Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,777
    For me the interesting question about this case is, Will the child testify? The parents first went to the lawyer who negotiated the settlement with the last boy’s family, before the police were contacted. That tells me they want the money. But there’s a new law, as a result of the last boy, that says an accuser has to testify.

    The lawyer probably thinks he can get a settlement, which means he thinks MJ will get off despite the law, so he thinks the boy will get out of testifying. If the boy refuses to testify, odds are he won’t be prosecuted since they’d be assuming he’s already a double victim: has cancer (IIRC) and molested. Which is better PR for the prosecutor, force the boy to testify or let Michael off?

    I guess there is a third option, which is that MJ is convicted and a separate civil suit pays the jackpot for the lawyer & parents. But that’s dicey since MJ may file bankruptcy beforehand. And the jackpot is higher if he gets off. That’s why I think the lawyer is planning for that.
     
  19. nico Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,122
    MJ gives official website... you judge it...

    http://mjnews.us

    Yes this from a man who says he had only 3 surgeries on his face.LOL!
     
  20. SwedishFish Conspirator Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,908
    if he were guilty and went to prison you can be sure it would be a sweet white collar rich person private suite "cell".

    i have no clue if he is guilty or not. the things police found in his home are convincing but if they believed he was a child molestor last time, why wouldn't they have pursued prosecuting him after he settled with the family? beyond them suing him, it is a horrific crime that is the law's duty to make right.

    i think perhaps he is just stuck in childhood and so surrounds himself with kids the age he feels to play with. or he could be guilty. it's no longer childhood "experimenting" if one of you is 45.
     
  21. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,406
    Has everyone forgotten that the first boy (1993 case) accurately described the discoloration of Michael's scrotum to the Santa Barbara DA??

    I remember it being all over the news at the time, but could only find one link right now:

    Source: http://www.salon.com/urge/feature/1999/02/cov_11feature3.html
     
  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,391
    Um ....

    I, too, remember the bit with the photographs, One Raven. But I never found it convincing evidence. I know some certain marks on the bodies of people I've never been with sexually. And I also seem to recall that people criticized MJ for bleaching his skin or undertaking other measures to control a skin pigmentation disorder whose name escapes me.

    As I recall hearing it at the time, it was about as general a piece of information as the Salon article has it: the boy said there was discoloration, and there was discoloration; I never heard of matching patterns, an accurate description ... the thing is that it leaves more than a reasonable doubt; I could sail my father's yacht through that hole.

    I've watched a guilty child molester get away with it before. They're pretty much going to need photographs or videotape in order to nail him.

    Seriously, if you can acquit a child molester because a little girl apparently didn't scream loudly enough (never mind what she's choking on?) ...

    I'll be very surprised if Michael Jackson is convicted. Frankly, I think Zanket might have a certain point. Would OJ Simpson have been worth ... what was it, $33 million in a civil suit if he was in prison?
     
  23. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,406
    I remember reports stating that he accurately described distinct markings that he couldn't have known, but they very well could have been hype-fueled media exaggerations (lord knows THAT has happened before!).

    I think I will do some web research tonight and see what I can come up with.
     

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