What qualifies as science?

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by Jozen-Bo, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Even though science etymologically means "knowledge", "to know", etc... It's gotten very conflated with naturalism and "what can be measured or is a system of measurements" (quantitative disciplines) in recent centuries. That might be a problem should all the assorted rival meanings of "spirituality" be brushed aside and it is narrowed down to one revolving around "spirit":
    • The term spirit means "animating or vital principle in man and animals".
    I don't know how that elan vital like meaning of "spirit" could survive in the current day. Unless the "animating principle" it now refers to was that of cognition transiting from the brain-state of one moment to the next and those after, producing the appearance of a living body and the world changing (in motion). H.G. Wells as mere fictional author referred to that in "The Time Machine"; but also physicist / mathematician Hermann Weyl decades later in the context of the Einsteinian era.
    • WELLS: "There is no difference between time and any of the three dimensions of space except that our consciousness moves along it."
    • WEYL: "The objective world simply IS, it does not HAPPEN. Only to the gaze of my consciousness, crawling upward along the life line [worldline] of my body, does a certain section of this world come to life as a fleeting image in space which continuously changes in time."
    But I personally don't feel that older interpretation is necessary anymore. The awareness of one's lifetime would be meaningfully divided into discrete intervals (correlating to their applicable neural patterns of particular moments), each declaring itself in isolation from the rest. With their relational connectivity providing the illusion of each taking its turn, as if consciousness was instead some immaterial substance that was flowing, crawling along the 4D "matter pipelines" (the twisting worldlines of particles constituting a block-universe version of skull meat).

    From the same Wikipedia article on "spirituality" (as convenient a source as any on a subject like that):
    • Modern spirituality is centered on the "deepest values and meanings by which people live." It embraces the idea of an ultimate or an alleged immaterial reality. It envisions an inner path enabling a person to discover the essence of his/her being.
    What is immaterial? It's tempting to habitually define it as what lacks size, measurability, mutability, substance (including as exhibited qualia), as well as no form. But Plato couldn't get away from the latter with his abstract general entities. If "formal" in any non-abstract geometrical or spatial-image respect, then immaterial wouldn't seem to accordingly be able to chuck the quantitative properties. So "formal" might have to refer to an intelligible manner of existence as governing rules or principles. IOW, what makes a sensible cosmos possible, what just has universal regulating potency / effects on "material stuff" without being a literal object or objects itself residing at some location or in some container (i.e., the why / how of matter having any coherence and predictability to its behavior at all).

    But immaterial principles seem unnecessary if time can be treated as a higher dimension (there would be more than just "now", all moments co-existing with each other). If the railroad tracks that the train follows are already laid out. Principles could still be abstracted from the patterns along that higher dimensional structure, but the latter's organization is prior to them.

    However, one might still contend that a higher dimension isn't really extended in a spatial way, like the familiar three. That it instead has to "exist" as an immaterial standard (as just potent influences alone), and the law-abiding behaviors those rules enforced upon the cosmos as an unfolding process would simply make it seem as if the world was substantively extended into a hyperspace.

    I'd agree that if such ever did get rolling, it would have to be more disciplined and internally coherent with itself than whatever current "paranormal scientists" often seem to be or whoever / whatever those folk identify themselves as nowadays. Since many if not most "funny events" are contended to be explainable by non-extraordinary affairs, there would have to be a "dual conception" approach of interpreting events and circumstances. Which somehow did not interfere with and intrude upon the natural or mechanistic approach side of that fence. Such broader scale "can't we all just get along?" dual-conceptionism goes at least back to Leibniz, and probably well before in a less discernable manner as advertised by today's history of philosophy.

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  3. river

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    From Yazata post #138 and from CC , post# 141 ( above , this post )

    The investigation into the spiritual science has begun with books by ;

    Brian L. Weiss, M.D. , Many Lives , Many Masters ; Through Time Into Healing

    Michael Newton, PH.D ; Journey of Souls

    James Van Praagh ; Talking to Heaven

    They have all investigated the spiritual and past lives . There are many more of course but these are books I have read .

    So again the science into the spirit world is well thought , and intriging .
     
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  5. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    My books in answer to the 3 above will be called

    One life no masters in now staying in now

    Journey of heels with soles

    Your talking to yourself

    Might even tell about my trip to hell

    Working title

    I spoke to Satan and he's pissed about the fake news he's the bad one

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  7. river

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    What qualifies as science is the quest for the answers of the unknown.
     
  8. Counter Registered Senior Member

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    But if science eventually reveals EVERY answer is science responsible for all?
     
  9. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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  10. Counter Registered Senior Member

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    Not me. ☺
     
  11. river

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    Science can never reveal all .

    Why ?

    Because knowledge changes all the time , for infinity .
     
  12. Counter Registered Senior Member

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    Knowledge? May I please ask you? Is there anything you KNOW (or are so certain of) you would gamble your life on said gamble? Or are you uncertain?☺
     
  13. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    I know you can't surf ride a grain of rice and go to the moon followed by the sun and then live on Pluto

    Does that count?

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  14. river

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    Sure

    I know water is not a tree .
     
  15. Counter Registered Senior Member

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    Would you gamble your life on it? ☺

    Either of you? (River posted as I was posting.)

    Me too Michael. ☺

    And have you passed through that moment? ☺
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  16. river

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    My response #151 .

    river
     
  17. Counter Registered Senior Member

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    Hey Michael. It's good to hear from you! Does #151 include all things, which also includes nothing?
     
  18. river

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    What is your point ?
     
  19. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Nope

    Just a grain of rice

    Maybe just maybe a cauliflower

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  20. Counter Registered Senior Member

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    Nothing cannot be quantified. Neither can a cauliflour.

    1+0=1
    1-0=1

    One is ignored, refuted and disregarded because it does not exist.
     
  21. river

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    Nothing is not about , quantification .

    Nothing is about the absense of the qualities and/or properties , of any dimensions that allows the manifestation of any object ; from the macro - to the sub-atomic ; quantum realm.
     
  22. Counter Registered Senior Member

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    Macro- or micro-, they still exist...
     
  23. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry this is only a interim reply to your post

    It has been sent off to the cryptology department for decoding

    I await their report

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