What makes no sense about the rationale evangelicals offer as why they support Trump

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Xelor, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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  3. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    So you think politicians using insults have no other purpose? Naive much?
    No, still the left. Like ze, zir, and other PC pronoun uses.
    Using synonyms and positive/negative connotations isn't in the ball park of making up new words and totally redefining old ones.
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    You think all insults are ad hominem? Skipped some education, did you?
    And now the right. Witness the outrage over a comedian making jokes about the White House. Not politically correct! Crucify her!
    Right - that's more up your alley.
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    It was pushed by the right, mostly, over the past few decades - I linked the GOPAC memo for you.
    There are many other obvious examples: the ban on using the word "capitalist" to describe the economic organization of badly governed and troubled countries, for example. The ban on the word "torture" to describe anything done by the military or intelligence agencies of the US. The ban on using the word "terrorist" or "terrorism" for anything done by a white Christian man in the US or a white Jewish man in Israel would be another (a recent authoritative work dealing with, among other things, the use of car bombs for terrorism by Israeli operatives in Lebanon in the 1980s is simply never reviewed by official media as dealing with "terrorism" http://mondoweiss.net/2018/05/remarkable-disappearing-terrorism/ ) Not only is it discouraged and punished to call any Republican "racist" for any reason, it is now politically incorrect to describe the Republican policies and governance of the past forty years as "Republican", even - it's only correct to use terms such as "both sides" or "Democratic and Republican" or "bipartisan" or some such euphemistic misdescription.

    At one point the right wing of the US Congress officially and seriously proposed - as a Federal regulation, with penalties for violations - changing the menu name of the potato dish served in the cafeterias of Federal government buildings from "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries". In the years before and since we've seen serious and diligent rightwing efforts to control the language of everything from biology and history textbooks in high schools to government reports on climate, disease, hydrology, economics - - - and just this past year we see the snowflakes's reaction to a guy who quietly and politely took a knee during the National Anthem at a football game or two. You'd a' thought he betrayed his country, lied about WMDs or something.

    The PC police are fragile, and they are frightened - but that's hardly sufficient excuse. And all this language policing cripples their thinking - if you aren't allowed to use words like fascist or demagogue or corrupt or even Republican to refer to things like Limbaugh's influence and Gingrich's agenda and Cheney's modus operandi, when Trump shows up you don't have any way to talk about him, predict his behavior, even recognize what he's doing.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
  8. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    Clueless about politics, huh?
    Are you talking about decapitating the president in effigy, the WHCD (which even many on the left at least virtue-signaled disapproval of), or something else?
    Why, because you don't understand the use of insult in politics?
    Why am I not surprised to find you citing an anti-Semite source? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/04/mondoweiss-is-a-hate-site/
    So you don't understand the difference between free-market capitalism and crony capitalism?
    You don't understand that we waterboard our own Navy Seals as part of their training, and many people/journalists have volunteered to be waterboarded without any long-lasting mental trauma?
    Terrorism is defined as having a political motive, and it was Obama who refused to say "radical Islamic terrorism."
    So Don Lemon was "punished" for saying 'it's my obligation as a journalist' to call Trump a racist?
    Republican policies are continually criticized, in or out of power. It's the Democrat policies that have led to crime, poverty, and homelessness in big cities that is typically verboten. And you'd have to cite some sources for your claims about "terms such as "both sides" or "Democratic and Republican" or "bipartisan"."
    There was no "Federal regulation, with penalties for violations" for "freedom fries." Just a decision by the House committee in charge of its own cafeterias. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_fries#U.S._House_adoption
    Your other "examples" seem just as baseless, or at least unsupported.
    And a reaction against disrespect of the flag/anthem isn't a politically correct change of language. Any other red herrings?
    You've been free to use, and even misuse, all those. The only restrictions are self-imposed by media seeking to be seen as "objective" when they are anything but.
     
  9. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    no mondoweiss is not anti semitic. considering philip weiss who started the site is jewish your partaking in the rather odious self hating jew slur used against any jew that doesn't toe the israel line.
    do you?
    do you even understand what torture is? no because you wrote this sentence. that we preapre our troops for and people have willing done it doesn't make it torture. that they had no lasting mental damage doesn't make it not torture
    http://themoderatevoice.com/talk-show-mancow-waterboarded-says-its-absolutely-torture/
    to quote Christopher Hitchens
    the journalists who have been water boarded have all to my knowledge said it was torture.
    also this is the us legal definition of torture here
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2340
    [QUOT]Terrorism is defined as having a political motive, and it was Obama who refused to say "radical Islamic terrorism."[/QUOTE] your grossly misrepresented what that was about. it was the republicans with an agenda pushing that phrase not the other way around.

    cause their policies suck. this is a party that has publicly defended domestic terrorists like cliven bundy. democratic policies haven't led to any of those things. this actually shows a remarkable ignorance on how are federal system of governance works and splits in powers and the fact that homeless people naturally congregate toward cities as its easier to get out of elements there.


    no you just cant handle the fact your supporting assholes
     
  10. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    What, you've never heard of people hating their own ethnicity? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-hating_Jew
    Yes, which is why I linked the definitions for the uninformed.
    No accounting for pansies.
    To real men, there's a difference.
    Yes:
    (2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from​
    Again, no accounting for pansies. Leftists also claim "prolonged mental harm" from Trump winning, which they did claim was "the threat of imminent death."
    No, it was Obama literally refusing to call it what it was. https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/politics/obama-radical-islamic-terrorism-cnn-town-hall/index.html
    A standoff is not terrorism, and agreement about government overreach isn't defense of the action.
    Gov. Jerry Brown is entering his final year in public life riding high in opinion polls and generally praised by government officials. But as the spotlight shifts to a new generation, there has been an increasing focus on the blight of poverty and homelessness under Mr. Brown’s watch — by his fellow Democrats.

    Mayor Eric M. Garcetti of Los Angeles was the latest to weigh in, discussing what he said was the absence of state assistance in helping cities deal with the homeless. Mr. Garcetti has come under fire for a major homelessness problem in Los Angeles, the subject of a series of scathing editorials in The Los Angeles Times.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/us/california-today-jerry-brown-homelessness.html
    Democrats seem to blame their own Democrat governor. And leftist state homelessness is magnitudes worse than elsewhere.
    https://www.seattletimes.com/category/seattles-homeless-crisis/
    Your quip about the federal system is a nonsense red herring.
    Wow. Powerful argument. [/sarc]
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    There are several quite different manifestations of capitalism in this world - your point?
    That decision was a Federal regulation, and violating it carried penalties.
    Of course it was trivial - but most of the stupid and damaging things Republicans line up to do are trivial.
    Apparently you have anti-Israel confused with anti-Semite. Granted the two are often paired - your confusion is easy to explain.
    The flip side of that is of course one of the striking features of the evangelicals supporting Trump - the majority of them are pro-Israel anti-Semites. That confusion is harder to explain - it involves some of that field-mark evangelical religious whackydoo.
    And you can't tell the difference between that and torturing somebody by controlled suffocation. Seriously - you typed that sentence and posted it right here in front of God and everybody.

    The intellectual corruption fostered by evangelical Christianity in America has long been explained on a kind of metaphysical or intellectual level. The moral corruption of evangelicals - their willingness to accept the flimsiest of excuses for torture a flagrant example - has no such partial exculpation.

    Willful stupidity - refusal to be accountable to reason - is one thing. Willful evil is another matter - harder to shrug off.

    They are the Tribe That Rubs Shit In Their Hair.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
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  12. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    If you can't keep up, that's your problem.
    So you can show me the CFR on it?
    Can you show me a pro-Israel anti-Semite?
    Who said waterboarding wasn't controlled suffocation? Seems to be a straw man justification for your little rant.
    The Bible is rife with torturous curses (labor pain), tests (Job), demonstrations (Egyptian plagues), correction or punishment (stoning), and as redemption (crucifixion).
     
  13. Bells Staff Member

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    Religious belief or religious affiliation is now classified as an "ethnicity"?

    Secondly, just because someone does not agree with Israel's actions, does not make them a "self hating Jew". That term, particularly when used by individuals such as yourself and using terms like "ethnicity" and attributing it to Jews, just reeks of white supremacist ideology.

    Now do it every day, for months on end and tell me that it does not cause "prolonged mental harm".

    You are also comparing it to soldiers who undergo torture as part of their training, to ensure they do not crack and divulge information.. It is training to provide soldiers with resistance to interrogation. Training that is conducted in a safe and controlled environment, with their full consent.

    In other words, it does not compare.

    Your use of the word "pansies" is telling. In the sense that it says a lot about you as a person.

    And they would be correct.

    Trump has brought the world closer to nuclear annihilation than any other President in your country's history because of his insane rhetoric. And that is not even measuring the untold damage his policies regarding the environment will do to the planet and its inhabitants, nor does that include how his policies regarding healthcare access in the US will result in people dying.

    He was correct to refuse to call it as such.

    Branding or tying an entire religion with more than a billion members to the actions of a few would be decidedly foolish. It is the same reason that Trump would never utter the words "radical Christian terrorism" for white supremacist terrorists in the US and abroad.

    It would take a certain measure of understanding and lack of racism and bigotry to understand that. Something you clearly seem to lack.

    Wait, that's your justification and excuse?

    The Bible also states that you can murder your children if they misbehave or talk back and it also condones marrying pre-teen girls to adult men (case of Mary and Joseph). Does not mean it is correct or acceptable.
     
  14. Bells Staff Member

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    Any number of people in the Trump administration, who are white supremacists and pro-Israel. Jeff Sessions comes to mind, Trump is another.
     
  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    You posted irrelevant bullshit. I offered you the opportunity to rehabilitate it.
    If you've forgotten the subject: the rightwing PC restriction against media folk describing badly governed capitalist economies as "capitalist".
    This is striking when seeing accounts of events in countries under fascist governance.
    You posted the facts of the matter. I took your word for it - House committee formal and official regulation of Federal cafeterias, you said.
    Sure. Why?
    You said it wasn't torture.
    And you can't walk that back. Willful stupidity is one thing - willful evil is another.
     
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  16. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    the term self hating jew as become a trope used to attack anti zionist jews. while it is not unheard of to have members attack their own groups its rare. and again the self hating jew trope presents much differently.

    so no than

    your nuttier than squirel turds. real men can deal with torture? seriously what in the 7 fucking hells is wrong with you? are you a poe?

    do you not understand the concept haunted by months?​
    are you trying to make your self look like a sociopath cause your succeeding with flying colors

    nope

    there you ago defending a domestic terrorist. if cliven bundy had been black you and the rest of the republican thugocrats would have been screaming he was a terrorist left and right. #whiteprivilage cliven bundy was text book terrorism using the threat of violence to coerce the BLM to stop seizing his cattle for his unpaid grazing fees. and they whole heartedly supported his actions. bundy was a hero to the republicans right up until he started saying racist shit and they dropped him because even they aren't that racist
    i dont think you understand the causes of homelessness and how it works. again people who aren't from a city will go there when homeless do to the increase in resources available there. there is a reason their are more homeless people in say miami or honolulu than say anchorage.

    not really pointing out that cities failing to solve problem when the root problems happen at higher levels of government is not a red herring its a valid acurrate point but i understand how that would confuse you.

    there really isn't any point in arguing with you. you dont care about honest facts. you view facts the same way religious zealots view things if it agrees with you good if not bad. i mean your on record as of saying you dont care if your source is lying so long as it agrees with you. i only respond because bad info needs to be countered with good.[/QUOTE]
     
  17. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    it heavily prevelant in the right wing evangelical protestant movement. they want the jews to move to the holy land so they can die during the rapture. hell look at ann coulters perfecting jews comment. this is a well known thing, how are you ignorant of it.
     
  18. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    Jewish is an ethnicity. That's why there are ethnic Jews and religious Jews.
    Jewish identity is also commonly defined through ethnicity. Opinion polls have suggested that the majority of Jews see being Jewish as predominantly a matter of ancestry and culture, rather than religion.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew?
    You need to educate yourself before making aspersions of "white supremacist ideology."
    Read the article about the guy who runs that site. He has a lot of Jew-specific (as opposed to Israel-specific) criticisms. Might not be self-hating, but that's not mutually exclusive with being anti-Semitic either.
    People who believe they are martyrs willingly prolong it.
    According to reports in the New York Times and Vanity Fair, the CIA adopted some of the interrogation techniques used on terror suspects from that SERE training, including the use of waterboarding.

    According to the Vanity Fair story, three-week SERE training for the U.S. soldiers included waterboarding, forced nudity, extreme temperatures, sexual and religious ridicule, agonizing stress positions, and starvation-level rations. The story quotes Michael Rolince, former section chief of the FBI's International Terrorism Operations: "You're not going to die, but you think you are."
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-hunter-says-we-have-waterboarded-our-own-mi/
    If talking about ethnic Jews "reeks of white supremacist ideology", I can only imaging that "pansies" must reek of closeted homophobia to you. You seem pretty quick to label people and poison the well.
    Thanks for proving my point. If Trump winning is torture, then there are obviously differences.
    Again with poisoning the well. Does that make you feel superior?
    "radical" is sufficient to differentiate for most people, unless you're an atheist who believes all religious people are radical.
    White supremacist terrorism justified with Christianity is radical Christian terrorism. No need for any virtue-signalling apologetics.
    Who said it was justification or excuse? They were examples rebutting Iceaura's claim that waterboarding was morally incompatible with the Bible.
    The Bible was also written in a different time with different norms.
    Evidence?
    Oh, I remember. You gave no examples to refute.
    Where? I said there was a difference, not that the difference was one of kind.
     
  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    There was a significant problem with the term "terrorism" with regards to ISIL.
    Which is why Obama was reluctant to use it.
    Suffice to say the ISIL encouraged and sponsored terrorism by radicalized persons but ISIL itself was a self proclaimed califate ( Islamic state)
    Do you see the diference? It takes a certain intelligence to do so and Trump and followers certainly seem to lack it.
    (M)
     
  20. Vociferous Registered Senior Member

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    I can't help it if you choose to ignore facts.
    Ignoring facts.
    Whoa! That's a lot of partisan assumptions there.
    Big government taxation raises property taxes, which raises property values, which prices people out of the housing market. Pretty simple.
    You can also compare big cities in red and blue states.
    It has little to nothing to do with the federal government, aside from Democrat resistance to welfare reform.
    Yet you're the one ignoring facts here.
    Hahaha! So Coulter thinking everyone, including Jews, should be Christian is somehow anti-Semitic?
    You don't seem to understand religion.
     
  21. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    i was going to respond to everything in this tripe post but this needs to stand all on its one and i have to ask are you an anti semite. are you stupid what seriously is your mental defect? you really can't see how essentially labeling so one as broken or being less than you for being jewish isn't anti semitic? Why the fuck are you defending antisemitism. saying a jew needs to be perfected to christianity is anti semitism. i under stand religion just fine what i can't understand is you manage to use the internet while being such a gormless twit. one of the most notable instances of anti semitic thought in the past decade and you defend it. i'm a staunch anti zionist and i'm sitting here wonder what were you dropped on your head. how the fuck is saying some is less for their religion not bigotry. this explains why you don't think the republican party bigoted you don't what bigotry is. text book christian anti semitism and you defend it you fucking defended it. what the fuck man what the fuck. do you have any shame?

    the idea that some anyone should have to give up a core belief to something else to be perfected is sheer bigotry. For fucks sake this is something that would need to be explained to a child but your a grown fucking man. how in good conscience can you defend this. honestly what the fuck is going through your head when you dont see this as anti semitic. i mean every major jewish group saw it that way. i mean christ on cracker just WTF.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Five more than you. Forget so soon?
    Are you still trying to sell the idea that waterboarding isn't torture? Forget it - nobody's buying except your fellow Tribe. All you're doing is styling the Trump Toupee http://driftglass.blogspot.com/2016/06/the-tribe-that-rubs-shit-in-their-hair.html

    There is willful ignorance, and there is willful evil. The evangelicals in the US partake in both.
    I made no such claim, or anything resembling such a claim,
    in any way including direction of implication.

    Or to quote Ta-Nehisi Coates:
    And this is one of the places where the evangelicals took the wrong turn: They adopted, as an article of faith, that committing oneself toward being less stupid was a betrayal of that faith.
     
  23. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    You don't seem to understand premillennial dispensationalism.

    Bill Maher's version is just a rough sketch of what PJ said, circa fifteen years ago. You can also try Michelle Goldberg's Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism (W.W. Norton, 2006). If you've time, she presented in Seattle eleven years ago, in support of the book; the audio is still available via KUOW↱. That is to say, it is not a new phenomenon.

    If you're going to laugh demonstratively wallow in fallacy in order to suggest someone doesn't seem to understand religion, then it would probably help to have a clue.

    And let me just catch one on the front side, here, because it's true I do make the point that you don't seem to have any real grasp of American society or history, but in this case, that might not be fair: There is what seems a reasonable objection, that someone, somewhere must be joking to suggest there is a significant Christian influence in the U.S. that thinks this way. I would stress the word "seems"; unfortunately, the objection would fail.

    Never underestimate American Christendom.
     
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