What is the New World Order? (Don't discuss the WTC)

Discussion in 'Conspiracies' started by Captain Kremmen, Jan 18, 2014.

  1. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Objective. New World Order.
    Is it something good that conspiracy theorists have misunderstood, or is it something evil?
    Does it exist at all except as a concept?

    (Please don't make this another thread about the World Trade Centre.)
     
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  3. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe I'm being over harsh.
    A tiny bit of talk about 911 would be OK.
     
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  5. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Would anyone like to define the phrase "New World Order"?
     
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I'm generally not into conspiracies. And the general take on "a new world order" through secretive elite power orginizations fits into that category.
    That doesn't mean that I don't believe in any future world government.
    Cosmology continues to show us that as a species, we really are insignificant, and how fragile our fart arse little blue orb we live on is.
    As our knowledge of the Universe improves, and technology enables us to explore it, we probably will do it as an International effort.
    Prohibitive costs will ensure that I believe.
    The first really big example of this co-operation is of course the ISS, which has been continually manned every day of every year for more than 11 years.
    That great benefit has been realised with extending its "use by date"
    The only "new world order"I see, is a co-oporative one, where in the future injustices, poverty and hunger on Earth has been all but eliminated, and we will go forth as a species to explore the solar system and far beyond it.

    Have I been watching too much Star Trek? Maybe, but I'm also sure that Gene Rodenberry through his Sci/Fi series, has hit upon something that will be instrumental in saving the human race.
    We have a while to go yet, but we are improving.
     
  8. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    The phrase New World Order became a commonly used term in 1990

    In his 11 September 1990 Toward a New World Order speech to a joint session of the U.S. Congress, President George H. W. Bush described his objectives for post–Cold War global governance in cooperation with post-Soviet states: NWO Speech:

    Until now, the world we've known has been a world divided—a world of barbed wire and concrete block, conflict and cold war. Now, we can see a new world coming into view. A world in which there is the very real prospect of a new world order. In the words of Winston Churchill, a "world order" in which "the principles of justice and fair play ... protect the weak against the strong ..." A world where the United Nations, freed from cold war stalemate, is poised to fulfill the historic vision of its founders. A world in which freedom and respect for human rights find a home among all nations.

    The New York Times observed that progressives were denouncing this new world order as a rationalization for American imperial ambitions in the Middle East, while conservatives rejected new security arrangements altogether and fulminated about any possibility of U.N. revival. However, Chip Berlet, an American investigative reporter specializing in the study of right-wing movements in the U.S., writes:

    When President Bush announced his new foreign policy would help build a New World Order, his phrasing surged through the Christian and secular hard right like an electric shock, since the phrase had been used to represent the dreaded collectivist One World Government for decades. Some Christians saw Bush as signaling the End Times betrayal by a world leader. Secular anticommunists saw a bold attempt to smash US sovereignty and impose a tyrannical collectivist system run by the United Nations.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory)


    My point in quoting this is to show that the term is more complicated than a simple belief by conspiracy theorists.
    It is also used by some politicians positively as an aspirational hope, by some left wing journalists as part of the US hegemony, and by fundamentalist religious people as a sign of the end times.
    Rejecting the term as nonsense, is not a way to deal with a subject with such importance.
     
  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I'm only rejecting the secret conspiracy type as nonsense.
     
  10. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    I wasn't directly replying to your remarks.
    I was expanding on why I had started the thread.
    Not much response so far.
    Thanks for making a post.
     
  11. cornel Registered Senior Member

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    And there you have it.
    You 're talking about the usage of a word, not the meaning behind it.
    Paddoboy was talking about (one of the?) meanings behind it.
    Maybe this thread should go into the linguistics forum ?
    Either that or you should define what you mean by the term, and then talk about that.
     
  12. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    I really just want, on this thread, to avoid the extreme conspiracy end of the debate,
    which is being discussed on other threads.
    What, for example, did George Bush snr mean by "New World Order" after the collapse of the Soviet Union,
    and what does Harlan Ullman mean by the same phrase in this article for the Atlantic Council website?

    http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/war-on-terror-is-not-the-only-threat

    These "Atlantic Council" people are very influential, and supportive of the "New World Order",
    but what exactly do they want?
     
  13. cornel Registered Senior Member

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    Chances are, he meant that the world would be ordered in a different way from then on.(and i daresay he was wrong, or at least the world didn't change to the extend he expected)
     
  14. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Nah, you're trying to coax the Illuminati nutters out of the woodwork, aren't you? Or the Bilderberg Group nutters.

    Seriously, I thought the New World Order was the lovely dream that after the end of the Cold War, a period of peaceful, free-market, economic competition would ensue, allowing the defence budgets to be reduced and the funds redeployed more beneficially for mankind. It went with Fukayama's "End of History" idea.

    [pause for hollow laughter.]

    But this Atlantic bunch don't strike me as sinister. I couldn't see in your link any reference to any defined New World Order that you say they seek.
     
  15. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    There is nothing sinister about them, and nothing secret either.
    They are however a ruthless, aggressive and successful lobby group for American interests.
    And I am confident that they have had a real influence on modern and present history.

    I was trying to coax a little opinion from the conspiracists,
    but they won't emerge from their crab-holes without some conspiracy bait.

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    Did someone mention 9/11?
     
  16. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    "New" as in "Not old".

    "World" as in "The world we live".

    "Order" as in "Organisation rather than chaos".

    It can be posed that it's all about a bunch of governments and phat kats making decisions about how everyone else should live. A minority echelon of aristocracy pretty much doing as they have always done, which is control everything (Of course that is counter intuitive of "New" since it's actually "Old").

    There is of course an alternative "New World Order", that's the anarchists that are the flipside, the reason the future of mankind isn't with minorities controlling everything. The main fail for this flipside however is what actual proposed alternative is offered, after all the average person is going to be egocentric with their pet concerns which is why usual an alternative direction doesn't seem to gain ground.

    In any case be it old or new, it doesn't matter. Sheep are still sheep, at least until they start howling at the moon.
     
  17. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    Captain Kremmen,
    From everything that I have read of this "New World Order", it just seems, to me, to be form of "Orwellian 1984'ish Double Speak" for Societal Control.

    The following excerpts are from this link : http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/control.htm -
    As far as the Phrase or Term or Title of "New World Order" - honestly it just seems, to me at least, to be a "new label" on the "same old product" - attempting to control the conduct/behavior of the many so as to vastly reward the coffers of the few.

    Again, there is a little more to read at the Link : http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/control.htm
     
  18. cornel Registered Senior Member

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    Depends on who "educates" them

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  19. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    Grok'd!
     
  20. Arne Saknussemm trying to figure it all out Valued Senior Member

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    Putting ethnocentrism aside, as much as is possible, I observe that we are living in the Chinese Century, much ballyhooed as that which would follow the American Century. Sure it's gritty. grimy, loud and smells like boiling chicken, but that's exactly what many thought of the USA's time at bat. I don't know what to tell you...How about I begin here: when the Soviet Union fell there was much self-congratulatory talk in the States (my homeland) of 'The World's Only Remaining Superpower' a phrase I heard Obama use in his spying speech just the other day, but even back in 1990 or thereabouts, I was asking, 'Well, what the hell happened to China?', because I had always been told that there were three superpowers, and that that was a very lucky thing because if there were two they would be at each other's throats, nuclearly speaking, and it would be curtains for us all. Then all of a sudden the Cold War bogey man has crumbled to dust, and China has inexplicitly disappeared without a trace from the Big Three.

    But it hasn't! I was there for half a year in 2012-13 and I was there 25 years before for a short time. In other threads they go on about how time travel is impossible, but they forget that we are all moving forward in time constantly (day by day) and when you're dealing with late 20th century-early 21st century China) the journey is a startling one. I hardly need to describe China's transformation in the last quarter century, we all know about that. What I saw though was a nation with more than 25 cities bigger than Chicago, a physical infrastructure so huge and complex that it makes anything in America look quite modest, and a dynamism that is also unmatched anywhere on Earth. I hardly know how to describe it, but just for example: when Chinese New Year rolled around (and of course, they don't call it that, it is the 'Spring Festival') even in a minor, out of the way city fireworks are going off 24/7 for about two and a half weeks! I am not talking about firecracker strings or kids with bottle rockets and cherry bombs. I mean Fourth of July fireworks like you might see in an American stadium, every few blocks, all day and all night long for weeks. Do you see the scale of things I am trying to describe?

    You see, I've been kicking around Asia for years, and every where I go they may have dragon dances, temples, writing systems, vocabulary and of course, so called 'Chinese' food, and the people in these countries cannot but acknowledge the Chinese origin of much of their cultures. They proudly associate themselves with the behemoth. In China, I felt like I was in Ancient Egypt in that the world was 'all of one piece'. I mean, I would see kites flying, and like a fool, momentarily, mentally remark to myself, 'Oh! They have kites in China too.' Then in a shorter time than it takes to write it here, I would recall that kites are a Chinese invention, as is paper, and as is (very likely) bamboo framing. Then look around and think how modern China has become, with 'Western' conveniences and technology. Then I do a Wiki search and realize or recall that toothbrushes, toilet paper and steel manufacture and printing are all originally Chinese. As for Western contraptions available, well, they were all made right there in China! I don’t mean to belittle the Western contribution to world technology or culture. I’m just saying China must look on ‘The Last Remaining Superpower’ as America looks on, say, Hungary- a rather quaint nation that has seen better days.
    If you want to talk about military strength ( I don’t) with its 200-million man army and weaponry, China could roll right over the U.S. Lucky for us, they don’t want to. It’s not that they’re so benevolent, it’s just that it would be pointless. They like America just as it is with its Silicon Valley innovations and Miley Cyrus videos. They must have 1500 huge factories that owe their existence to servicing just these two industries.
    We all know about what happened in China in the earlier 20th century – from the opium war to the Long March, from the Last Emperor to Chairman Mao and beyond. They had a rough time, but for 5,000 years previously they were nearly always a force to be reckoned with, and I’m here to tell you – baby, they’re back!
     
  21. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Throughout the 19th and 20th Century, anywhere in the world that the Chinese were allowed to dwell, they made themselves prosperous.
    Except China until recently.
     
  22. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    That is really the point of this thread.
    The fact is that the ideas involved came from the establishment, not the conspiracy theorists.
    If you mention the words "New World Order" everyone thinks of Alex Jones, but he did not invent the term.
     
  23. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    I'm clearly missing something that is plain to you two. I read this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_world_order_(politics)

    and formed the impression it was just a label used by various statesmen and politicians at certain points in history when changes are occurring. Where do you get all this control stuff from?
     

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