# What is next for Gold & Silver? (obsolute prices now removed)

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Billy T, Dec 5, 2009.

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## Where is Gold price going next? (give why in post)

Poll closed Nov 30, 2010.

4 vote(s)
30.8%

5 vote(s)
38.5%
1. ### BlueRidgeRegistered Senior Member

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141
Ok... and the crime here is what? I think you are trying to equate Sandy with people like Sarah Winchester or Howard Hughes. Wouldn't matter anyway. She could tell me she was abducted by aliens and it only would make the conversation more interesting.

You obviously doubt so much that taking the time to explain to you why God would give sound advice or position your life to receive gifts is hardly worth my time.

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3. ### Billy TUse Sugar Cane Alcohol car FuelValued Senior Member

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I know nothing about Sarah Winchester, but certainly no-one could confuse Sandy with Howard Hughes. He was a great inventor and industrialist. He invented the rotary dill bit that all oil and gas drillers now use (and founded the Hughes Tool and Die company to exploit / commercialize it).

Later, with the fortune that gave him, he went on to develop the most important Airline company in the world, Pan AM, at that time. He also designed and piloted world’s largest airplane (the “Spruce Goose”) on its only flight. It needed “ground effect” to fly and the planned customer, the US Army, did not buy it, but AFAIK it still holds the record as the largest airplane ever to fly. (With modern engines it probably would not need ground effect to fly and could serve as a troop carrier delivering several thousand, fully-armed, soldiers to the battle fields, etc. with each flight. - Much faster than US Navy ships which are used for this now.)

I don't know of anything significant Sandy has done; even with God’s help, do you?

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5. ### Search & DestroyTake one bite at a timeModerator

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BlueRidge -

I don't care if you say it, or God says it, all that is required is logical reasoning to reach a conclusion.

if the reasoning is missing, whether by you or God, the conclusion is not good.

The reasoning can't be 'God said it' IMO

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7. ### BlueRidgeRegistered Senior Member

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141
oh Lord.. Billy, Howard Hughes and Sarah Winchester, were eccentrics. And it looks a lot like you were accusing Sandy of being similar in mind. So she turns to the Boss for advice. Wow, big crime. That's what He commands us to do. And he never once says go be poor. On the contrary, God hates greed and lust for money, not wealth.

Frankly speaking, I've had enough private conversation with Sandy now, to know there's nothing wrong with the old coconut. So give it a rest.

8. ### BlueRidgeRegistered Senior Member

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141
Aww. Bless your heart.

The problem I see here. There's all of maybe 3 people in the entire membership pop who know and practice the idea of getting on one's knees and asking the Big Guy to talk to them, then wait out the answer.

Atheists seem to believe you get to deny God, then treat him like a vending machine. Go ahead and keep working that number, tell me how it works out for ya. there is NO universal love for man. He could care less if an atheist fell in a meat grinder. If you're a parent, then you understand.... the only kids that matter, are YOURS.

9. ### Billy TUse Sugar Cane Alcohol car FuelValued Senior Member

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Howard hughes was more of a recluse than an excentric but even that only in his old age. Perhaps he had multiple small "silent strokes"? At least until he was 50 (or 65?), he was a major contributor to the world's progress. His only excentric characteristic when younger was to like and sleep with many Hollywood actresses. (As wealth, fame, success with beautiful women, oil wells and airplanes came easily to him He, like Sandy, must have been one of God's chosen to be blessed.)

Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2010
10. ### Search & DestroyTake one bite at a timeModerator

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Only bless me if I sneeze, please.

(sorry I'm listening to rap, let me return to the real subject matter here)

Ok. So I assume you mean rather than waiting, they will work hard for an answer? Maybe you can give me a set of rules, so that I may listen to God for investment advice.

If you could simplify the rules into 3 steps for ease of my understanding, it would be much appreciated

1.) ? (pray?)
2.) ?
3.) ?
4.) = good investment

From what I take from this, you mean I have to believe what you believe, before God will give me investment advice?

Ok that sounds right. Anyway, I am more interested in some specific examples of getting investment advice from God.

So, if you wanted to get some investment advice on Gold, how do you think God would go about doing this? (Specifics please?)

cheers

11. ### BlueRidgeRegistered Senior Member

Messages:
141
Seriously?

1: You will have to do the scariest thing you've ever experienced in you're life. Are you ready?

2: I want you to seek out genuine solid and honest pastoral help on the matter. Take some months of regular prayer. At some point I want you to conjure the guts necessary for what's next. When you finally have the nerve to tell the Boss- Your will, not mine. I am prepared for what ever it is you do to me for the life I've lived. I am prepare to accept my new path. I give up my idols, my possessions, and submit to you. I accept Jesus as my lord and savior, and I accept the free gift of salvation.

3: If you're sincere, you will be tested repeatedly. Don't be the least bit surprised when out of no where, one day, you actually hear the voice of God for the very first time. You'll know His unmistakable presence in your life as He begins to change you're life as if it were magic. That MIGHT be the time to ask Him a few things, and I wouldn't start with anything that has to do with money. IF you doubt at any point, if you are any kind of disingenuous intent/sentiment, then kiss it all good bye.

Sounds bizarre to many. If you were in an Christian forum you would be embraced and counseled as well as fully accepted. Here? LOL!! You must understand, God NEVER grants things that are not in his will. Ask for a Ferrari and you likely get wheels, like a Toyota. Ask for millions in cash, and you will likely get exactly what you need. All based on His plans for you. The Father talks to you in various ways. One day it may be a slam dunk sermon in church, a Christian radio broadcast, scripture etc.. and at times, direct communication.

Like I said. The Father could care less about EVERYONE. He doesn't. He's a parent just many in this forum, myself included. I don't give a rats rear end what kind of grades little Johnny down the street gets, I only concern myself with own kids. If a child came to me after many years of throwing snowballs at my car, and he/she said- Look, I'm very sorry, I know what I did was wrong.. bla bla bla... naturally I wouldn't deny that kid a moment of my time. Think God is any different? Suppose you're an atheist who spent their days bashing His good name, mocking his children and such. You denied Him up and down, rejected Him and made jokes about Him etc. So one day you step in front of a bus... and at that very moment... the Boss looks down on you and says to Himself- Yeah, I remember you. Whaddya think he's gonna do?

So... that sweet lil Sandy asks the Boss for investment advice? So does the pastor at my church. He routinely asks the Boss to fill our bank account to pay off this new church building, it's surrounding land etc. And like clock work, it's keeps coming. It's in His will. Remember that part? If our church ask for money to run a Vegas Casino with adjacent hoe house... would we get the money? Not on you're life!

Get past that point and we'll rap. See ya in a couple of years.

12. ### Search & DestroyTake one bite at a timeModerator

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thank you for such a thoughtful reply, you obviously have a good grasp on your beliefs. It makes it a lot more clear to whats going on in your head as I have taken the time to fully digest your post.

I think investment should be founded on good economics, or a business on a good marketing plan, just as a restaurant needs to serve good food in order to be competitive.

In other words, if God told you to serve mashed snails on honey as an opening special, you'd better not listen to him.

Of course, following your thinking God could never make a bad decision like that anyway.

Well regardless, thanks for the reply. And don't make investments without logical reasons, or if you do don't risk more than a few % of your total capital. That's my best advice for anyone.

If I replied more it would just be disagreement. Happy investing!

13. ### Search & DestroyTake one bite at a timeModerator

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Some interesting news out for Gold.

Technically Gold had a perfect double bottom down at the psychological point of 1100 and had a great surge almost all the way back to its high. But it's not quite there yet and we need to see a break through yesterday's high of 1127 before doing any buying.

Let's see.

Billy-T, I think I read you mention China is buying Gold. What do you think about current gold supply levels?

Is there a measurement, or some data somewhere that shows global gold supplies and demand? Like maybe somewhere that pieces all Gold news together?

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No, not to my knowledge is China buying significant amounts of gold. I do expect them too within a year or two, but shrewdly - mainly when price is below $1100/oz. The jewelry demand is very price sensitive, so tends to stabilize the price. The inflation hedge demand is probably sinking slightly now. With the IMF selling* and possibly some central banks that can not afford to hold gold when it can be sold now for dollars that they can invest to earn interest also selling, I expect the price will drop below China's buy point. China is reducing its holding of US treasury paper so probably will buy gold as another way to do this, when they think the price is right. I.e. I think China will build a relatively firm floor under the price of gold, perhaps even in 2010. I am of course just guessing and not especially good at that for gold price. * One eight of its holdings or 403.3 tons but in stages during 2010. Now offering 191.3 tons of gold on the market in a bid to raise new resources for lending. (It may sell some more directly to Central Banks.) PS - China's gold output grew 11.34 percent year-on-year to 313.98 tons in 2009 and in dollar value was up 18.56% YoY, but none is being sold. (China has more dollars than it wants already.) Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2010 15. ### Search & DestroyTake one bite at a timeModerator Messages: 1,467 I find it noteworthy your mention on how gold is almost a dead-weight compared to a flexible, and interest-earning USD (this was more in that other thread). I admit I knew why USD was so good for a few reasons, but never explicitly thought about the flip-side and what that means for holding Gold. Makes sense now. And I mean, jewelry demand? Of course! Why did I never think about this before! I really need to just go find some publications on gold and oil so I get my fundamentals straightened out. You are pointing out way too many things that I should already know about. For me this thread is like the last great unexplored region of the forum - full of bounty, but hard-work getting here. Anyway, more questions than answers at this point, but this void is quickly closing thanks the good posts. 16. ### Search & DestroyTake one bite at a timeModerator Messages: 1,467 I just got an ad in my inbox: "Earn 40% Yearly: Buy Gold" I guess someone thinks now is a good time to sell gold. 17. ### BlueRidgeRegistered Senior Member Messages: 141 Well... LOL First of all. God wouldn't tell me to serve up something like that. Read the Gospel one day. Just one chapter. I'm pretty partial to Matthew being a good summary of things. You ask your loving dad for a Quiznos sub, and like the bible says, you think he'll hand ya a poo sandwich? I see it frequently, people think God is a vending machine. Not so. Generally you have to EARN your gifts. Also, I don't base every financial decision on th word of God. I apply stats and figures like anyone else. But you wanted an answer. 18. ### Billy TUse Sugar Cane Alcohol car FuelValued Senior Member Messages: 23,198 For a long time I have suspected that (as has happened for centuries) depositories of gold and silver may have many more claims on it than they could honor if all were presented at the same time. Given how profitable it is to sell twice as many certificates of ownership than you have corresponding metal and human nature - it just stands to reason that it does happen. Here is an interesting (and scary if true) report: "... On February 3rd, Andrew Maguire wrote Eliud Ramirez, a senior investigator for the CFTC's Enforcement Division, giving him the "heads up" for a "manipulative event" signaled for February 5th. He warned the CFTC that JP Morgan was about to manipulate down the price of silver after the release of non-farm payroll data on February 5th. Andrew said that the takedown would happen regardless of if employment was better or worse than expected and the price of silver would be flushed to below$15 per ounce. During the next couple of days, silver was crushed from $16.17 per ounce down to a low of$14.62 per ounce. {Billy T notes that this can easily be done by "naked short selling" and big firms can do this and make profits, or get badly hurt.}

Despite all of the evidence given by Andrew Maguire to the CFTC of gold and silver manipulation, Andrew wasn't allowed to speak at last week's CFTC hearing on limiting gold and silver positions held by banks like JP Morgan. Bill Murphy of the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee (GATA) was allowed to speak (within a five-minute time constraint) and present some of Andrew Maguire's evidence, but right when his presentation began there was a technical failure of the live television broadcast, which was mysteriously fixed as soon as he was done speaking. Bill Murphy was scheduled for several mainstream media television interviews after the CFTC hearings, but they were all abruptly cancelled at once.

A couple of days after the CFTC meeting, Andrew Maguire and his wife were involved in a bizarre hit-and-run car accident in London where a second car coming out of a side street struck their vehicle, which resulted in a police chase using helicopters and patrol cars before the suspect was nabbed. Andrew and his wife were released from the hospital with minor injuries. ..."

From 3April10 Email of the National Inflation Association. (They fear dollar collapse sooner than I do.)

The same source estimates that for every ounce of silver that these depository firms and banks actually hold, they have out 100 ounces in certificates. Few owners actually take physical possession, so this works so long as most believe the silver or gold is really there for the asking. The total fraud if 100 to 1 leverage is correct is about 5.5 trillion dollars - Makes Berny Madoff look like an amature taking dimes from children. If true, one can understand why JP Morgan and several others would spend billions on information containment, hit men etc. if true.

Perhaps someone good at searching can see if independant facts support this claim of world's greatest fraud.

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2010
19. ### Billy TUse Sugar Cane Alcohol car FuelValued Senior Member

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here is another quote from same gloomy source as my last post:

"... There are now reports that Lenny Organ, the son of Harvey Organ (who recently testified at the CFTC gold and silver position limit hearings), was able to enter the vault of ScotiaMocatta (Canada's only bullion bank vault) and see that shockingly, it contained roughly 60,000 ounces of silver and gold that he estimated as being worth approximately $100 million. Considering that the Royal Mint of Canada sold over$1 billion worth of gold in 2008 alone and many purchasers choose the convenience of vault storage and a paper certificate over physical delivery, the amount of gold stored in the vault appeared by Lenny to be exceptionally low.

In June of 2007, Morgan Stanley agreed to pay \$4.4 million to settle a class-action lawsuit with brokerage clients who bought precious metals and paid storage fees, when in fact it was alleged that Morgan Stanley wasn't physically storing their gold and silver at all. NIA believes we may now have an epidemic of banks selling gold/silver they don't have. If this isn't exposed immediately, it could bring down the world's financial system.

How do we Americans know that the purported U.S. gold reserves of 8,133.5 tonnes still exist in our vaults? The last audit of the U.S. gold reserves was supposed to have taken place in 2005, but according to KPMG LLP, they only audited the mint's fiscal year 2005 financial statements and they never saw any physical gold or even went to Fort Knox. The last real audit of the U.S. gold reserves took place in 1954. ..."

Billy T comment:
I have on several occasions speculated that only a small fraction of the gold certificates people own are actually back by physical gold so I can believe this report. I think doing this is very profitable (selling paper as if it were gold) and only slightly more fraudulent that bank's demand deposits greatly exceeding the money in the bank. Banks are backed by the FDIC, which is backed, if need be by FED & Treasury's printing presses, but they cannot "print real physical gold." The stability of both system is based on the normal fact the only a few will ask for dollars or gold at the same time. We may not be in "normal times" soon.

20. ### Billy TUse Sugar Cane Alcohol car FuelValued Senior Member

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The NY Post has picked up the story of post 75. See their version at:

Text is so similar that I expect it was feed to them, but I also thought the NY post was not just a rag. Is it a respectable paper?*

To repeat the end of post 95:

"The total fraud if 100 to 1 leverage is correct is about 5.5 trillion dollars - Makes Berny Madoff look like an amateur taking dimes from children.
If true, one can understand why JP Morgan and several others would spend billions on information containment, hit men etc. ..."

-------
*later by edit: I looked at NY Post a few minutes - it does seem to be mainly a subway rag.

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2010
21. ### 786Searching for TruthValued Senior Member

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Seriously, with all the inflation the world has introduced by their Federal Reserve Banks and on top of the paper fraud in the commodities the price of Gold should be in uncharted territories.

Go Silver!

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22. ### Captain KremmenAll aboard, me Hearties!Valued Senior Member

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Why isn't there a don't know option?

23. ### Billy TUse Sugar Cane Alcohol car FuelValued Senior Member

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Not needed as everyone would need to vote that too.